Good one Lyraeus! I'll take that as the way it sounded - Thanks! I hope I get a response from MikeMcMann and CDAT though, because I truly am interested in their thinking about this for whatever it's worth.

Thanks again; Steiner

What Lyraeus said. We're very fond of him. So please don't think too harshly of us.

Hehe...thanks Amanal .

Ya usually have to meet me though... I'm a ****** on the inter webs apparently (or I just don't know how to get sarcasm and real emotion across with emoticons). Haha...

I just skimmed through the replies, so pardon me if I missed something. For me, the most obvious reason why the Speed dial isn't hidden at any point, is that it never says that it is hidden/face down/secret. Unless state otherwise in the rule book, everything is "public information". I saw that this argument had been brought up before, but the OP did not seem convinced. So, if that is not enough, what are your argument that prevents you from playing with upgrade cards, or even ship cards face down? It seems like the same argument could be used there as well.

Please note I'm not trying to make fun of you. Just trying to find another way for you to look at it.

what are your argument that prevents you from playing with upgrade cards, or even ship cards face down? It seems like the same argument could be used there as well.

Please note I'm not trying to make fun of you. Just trying to find another way for you to look at it.

Though I agree with your line of thinking, lists are public before initiative is determined, so the rules do explicitly cover that.

Sorry it' been a couple of days - and I'm sure MikeMcMann is a great guy, just as you all seem to be! Perhaps I missed the spirit in which some of the comments were made -some friendly jests for example

Well maybe it's just the way it is then. I want to say this to Viper Jr though; I never tried to suggest anything like that, and NEVER would from playing X-wing - this is part of what I meant before about the same company making both games - all ship and upgrade are always face up in both of them. I would never suggest changing that - but to be a smart alec, since the speed dial tells your opponent how far you have to move (at deployment) why not reveal the command dial at the same time too - I'm just kidding and don't mean it of course!

That in itself shows how they used the exact same idea in both games, and even though the command dial in Armada covers more than maneuvering, both it and the maneuver dial in X-wing (which covers speed also) are both hidden until activation, The big difference is in the way the Armada speed dial is used. I'm not trying to tell you guys anything you don't know, just saying that I understand that as well. I guess that's why it felt so much more like it should have been "across the board" at the time of deployment.

Either missing the point, or just hung up from thinking X-wing, I think I may have a different way of looking at this situation now. Not only does the second player get to place obstacles first, but they also get to "respond" to the fist players' (1st) placement AND speed, which can give a player with the lower Fleet Cost more reason to consider passing the initiative to their opponent.

On another note, I had already figured out some time ago that placing the Station first can allow you to put it where your opponent will be moving away from it while you will be moving toward it! I guess it's all about trying to apply the same kind of thinking to accepting that this is the way it's meant to work, and then putting it into perspective for the pros and cons of having the initiative or not Steiner

The speed dial has a bump so that it cannot lie flat face down.

QED