I am a newer player, I've only been playing for a couple of months now, and have probably played less than 20 rounds - including a regional I entered (just missed the cut ).

To read these forums, it sounds like the game is broken ten different ways to Sunday, with everyone trying to fix it.

That strikes me as odd, because I have played other FFG games, and frankly, this game is the most stable, balanced, dare I say, awesome game I have every played in the genre. If the game is broken - it must have been freak'in perfect at some point.

I can understand that the game is a work in progress - new expansions can only be play tested so much, and when released to the masses, we are always going to see things that didn't (and frankly couldn't) reveal themselves in playtesting - and these will need to be addressed or tweaked or dealt with - but that is exactly what I see happening. If something is too ...wimpy (or strong) for its cost they fix that. If some ability is unbalancing the meta - it gets tweaked in as timely a manner as can be expected.

I have nothing against any fan of the game expressing their opinions about how the game can be enhanced, tweaked or whatever. But I tell you, when I see more than half a dozen posts purporting to "fix" or suggest "fixes" to more than half a dozen alleged problems, it makes the game sound like it is horribly broken.

I am glad I have played the game myself a few times before coming to these forums, or I would be sorely discouraged from buying into it- since it is portrayed here, by virtue of all the (well meaning but) horrible to-see-all-in-one-basket "fix it" posts as being a game that is probably so broken it shouldn't be invested in.

Maybe there should be a pinned "Suggestions for Enhancements" post - where people can debate the merits or demerits of various game play elements and objects, and there they can use the nomenclature of "fix" and "broken" without making the game seem, to the casual observer, to be broken beyond repair.

Just saying.

Because some people really seem to struggle with the fact that players will eventually find a few lists that are just better than other lists, and that these will ultimately form the basis of competitive play. That and with no spoilers to discuss all we've really got for conversation is discussing what would bring certain ships back into the spotlight.

It'll ease up after wave 7 spoilers start rolling out. Half of the fix-it posts are tongue-in-cheek anyway.

I don't find it bewildering that people who love the game want to discuss it with other players, even when there isn't really anything "new" to discuss.That's the nature of fandom - we like something, and when we can't get "more" of it, we generate a kind of more by talking about it with other fans. No bad there.

My observation (for that is what my post amounts to) was only that there is a danger to the game's growth (health?) when well meaning fans pepper a forum like this with a multitude of "fix", "broken" posts. It doesn't paint the picture of a game that is fun to play, balanced and well maintained - rather it suggests that the game is falling apart at the seams. I know the game isn't - so this fix ation (pun intended) in the current meta strikes me as not simply conversational, but perhaps a little detrimental as well.

I think part of the problem when someone says something needs to Fixed, they actually mean it needs a minor tweak. It's also often referring to competitive tournament environments, like the Store Championships, Regionals and beyond.

The X-Wing for example is not broken, it's a good ship and people can and do win with it. But it's not quite as good as it should be for the points, it's about 2-3 points too expensive compared to other ships. But because it's a ship so many love, and the ship the game is named after, a lot people discuss what "needs" to be done to "fix" it.

Mutations on the other hand does need a fair amount of work.

I don't find it bewildering that people who love the game want to discuss it with other players, even when there isn't really anything "new" to discuss.That's the nature of fandom - we like something, and when we can't get "more" of it, we generate a kind of more by talking about it with other fans. No bad there.

My observation (for that is what my post amounts to) was only that there is a danger to the game's growth (health?) when well meaning fans pepper a forum like this with a multitude of "fix", "broken" posts. It doesn't paint the picture of a game that is fun to play, balanced and well maintained - rather it suggests that the game is falling apart at the seams. I know the game isn't - so this fix ation (pun intended) in the current meta strikes me as not simply conversational, but perhaps a little detrimental as well.

It is the nature of the internet... do not let it bother you. X-WING is one of the most popular games of all time, and it will be around for a long-good-time.

Mutations on the other hand does need a fair amount of work.

Considering mutations aren't even in the game...

Munitions are getting slightly better with VII but I really don't think it will be enough.

I don't find it bewildering that people who love the game want to discuss it with other players, even when there isn't really anything "new" to discuss.That's the nature of fandom - we like something, and when we can't get "more" of it, we generate a kind of more by talking about it with other fans. No bad there.

My observation (for that is what my post amounts to) was only that there is a danger to the game's growth (health?) when well meaning fans pepper a forum like this with a multitude of "fix", "broken" posts. It doesn't paint the picture of a game that is fun to play, balanced and well maintained - rather it suggests that the game is falling apart at the seams. I know the game isn't - so this fix ation (pun intended) in the current meta strikes me as not simply conversational, but perhaps a little detrimental as well.

It is the nature of the internet... do not let it bother you. X-WING is one of the most popular games of all time, and it will be around for a long-good-time.

Yeah, I'm too old to be bothered by the matter, I mention it only in passing, because I too, like to have something to talk about with other fans of the game.

Because some people really seem to struggle with the fact that players will eventually find a few lists that are just better than other lists, and that these will ultimately form the basis of competitive play. That and with no spoilers to discuss all we've really got for conversation is discussing what would bring certain ships back into the spotlight.

Because some people really seem to struggle with the fact that players will eventually find a few lists that are just better than other lists, and that these will ultimately form the basis of competitive play. That and with no spoilers to discuss all we've really got for conversation is discussing what would bring certain ships back into the spotlight.

It's not that certain builds rise to the top, it's that those certain builds at the top are dumb and nuanceless. How many regional top 8's have to be 7/8's obnoxious 2 ship (Turretwing) lists before we can all agree that we'd rather go back to playing normal lists?

If swarms or b wing spans were the cream of the crop the game would be better. At least with those dominating movements would actually matter.

Mutations on the other hand does need a fair amount of work.

Considering mutations aren't even in the game...

Munitions are getting slightly better with VII but I really don't think it will be enough.

Mutations sound like a sweet thing! They're like epts but only enhance stats and come with a downside. So maybe you get +1 action a turn, but you have to roll an attack die and suffer the consequences to show the physical toll it's taking on the pilot.

I don't find it bewildering that people who love the game want to discuss it with other players, even when there isn't really anything "new" to discuss.That's the nature of fandom - we like something, and when we can't get "more" of it, we generate a kind of more by talking about it with other fans. No bad there.

My observation (for that is what my post amounts to) was only that there is a danger to the game's growth (health?) when well meaning fans pepper a forum like this with a multitude of "fix", "broken" posts. It doesn't paint the picture of a game that is fun to play, balanced and well maintained - rather it suggests that the game is falling apart at the seams. I know the game isn't - so this fix ation (pun intended) in the current meta strikes me as not simply conversational, but perhaps a little detrimental as well.

It is the nature of the internet... do not let it bother you. X-WING is one of the most popular games of all time, and it will be around for a long-good-time.

Yeah, I'm too old to be bothered by the matter, I mention it only in passing, because I too, like to have something to talk about with other fans of the game.

Same here. It is what it is, and most of the time it is good fun.

Every competition looks dumb and nuanceless to someone who doesn't understand or play it at a serious level. If you think a Fel/Chirpy/brobots match has no nuance I don't even know what game you are playing.

Mutation: Your pilot mutates, growing a bipolar sentient arm. When attacking treat all blank results as focus results, when defending treat focus results as blank results.

Mutation: Your pilot mutates, growing a bipolar sentient arm. When attacking treat all blank results as focus results, when defending treat focus results as blank results.

It's a better than manually pointing turrets in the activation phase!

All tactical games have balancing issues. Chess has been around for a long time and still no fix.

White moves first, which is pow and imba.

So do cut X-Wing a little slack. It's fun. Which does not mean you can't improve it.

I think the game is awesome. Some however feel the need to balance everything as close as possible for tournament play.

For example, in a 300 point Epic game bombers and ordnance are not so bad. Actually sometimes it forces the defender to play with that in mind. In a 100 point tournament it isn't so popular. Should a freighter be as awesome as an equal number of assault fighters. Well if you want everything balanced for a 100 point death match then yes. But I think doing that hurts the game not help it. There can be ships that are for scenarios, Epic battles and some just for dog fighting.

The game is still awesome and a ship that is a couple of points off does not hurt casual play too often.

Well, the passive aggressive STFU is an interesting change of pace at least.

Every competition looks dumb and nuanceless to someone who doesn't understand or play it at a serious level. If you think a Fel/Chirpy/brobots match has no nuance I don't even know what game you are playing.

See, now THIS is the sort of STFU we're used to around here!

I am a newer player, I've only been playing for a couple of months now, and have probably played less than 20 rounds - including a regional I entered (just missed the cut ).

To read these forums, it sounds like the game is broken ten different ways to Sunday, with everyone trying to fix it.

That strikes me as odd, because I have played other FFG games, and frankly, this game is the most stable, balanced, dare I say, awesome game I have every played in the genre. If the game is broken - it must have been freak'in perfect at some point.

I can understand that the game is a work in progress - new expansions can only be play tested so much, and when released to the masses, we are always going to see things that didn't (and frankly couldn't) reveal themselves in playtesting - and these will need to be addressed or tweaked or dealt with - but that is exactly what I see happening. If something is too ...wimpy (or strong) for its cost they fix that. If some ability is unbalancing the meta - it gets tweaked in as timely a manner as can be expected.

I have nothing against any fan of the game expressing their opinions about how the game can be enhanced, tweaked or whatever. But I tell you, when I see more than half a dozen posts purporting to "fix" or suggest "fixes" to more than half a dozen alleged problems, it makes the game sound like it is horribly broken.

I am glad I have played the game myself a few times before coming to these forums, or I would be sorely discouraged from buying into it- since it is portrayed here, by virtue of all the (well meaning but) horrible to-see-all-in-one-basket "fix it" posts as being a game that is probably so broken it shouldn't be invested in.

Maybe there should be a pinned "Suggestions for Enhancements" post - where people can debate the merits or demerits of various game play elements and objects, and there they can use the nomenclature of "fix" and "broken" without making the game seem, to the casual observer, to be broken beyond repair.

Just saying.

Ignore the "fix it" posts on here. The game could be absolutely perfect, and people would find something to complain about. When people REALLY like something, and spend so much time with it, they feel like they are in tune with the game, and can see cracks in it's facade.

Weirdly, all of the negativity you see if borne from love. The more, the better!

It's simple. Everyone fancies themselve an amateur game designer.

Because some people really seem to struggle with the fact that players will eventually find a few lists that are just better than other lists, and that these will ultimately form the basis of competitive play. That and with no spoilers to discuss all we've really got for conversation is discussing what would bring certain ships back into the spotlight.

Because some people really seem to struggle with the fact that players will eventually find a few lists that are just better than other lists, and that these will ultimately form the basis of competitive play. That and with no spoilers to discuss all we've really got for conversation is discussing what would bring certain ships back into the spotlight.

It's not that certain builds rise to the top, it's that those certain builds at the top are dumb and nuanceless. How many regional top 8's have to be 7/8's obnoxious 2 ship (Turretwing) lists before we can all agree that we'd rather go back to playing normal lists?

If swarms or b wing spans were the cream of the crop the game would be better. At least with those dominating movements would actually matter.

You clearly were not playing in the early days of the game.

It's simple. Everyone fancies themselve an amateur game designer.

Because some people really seem to struggle with the fact that players will eventually find a few lists that are just better than other lists, and that these will ultimately form the basis of competitive play. That and with no spoilers to discuss all we've really got for conversation is discussing what would bring certain ships back into the spotlight.

Because some people really seem to struggle with the fact that players will eventually find a few lists that are just better than other lists, and that these will ultimately form the basis of competitive play. That and with no spoilers to discuss all we've really got for conversation is discussing what would bring certain ships back into the spotlight.

It's not that certain builds rise to the top, it's that those certain builds at the top are dumb and nuanceless. How many regional top 8's have to be 7/8's obnoxious 2 ship (Turretwing) lists before we can all agree that we'd rather go back to playing normal lists?

If swarms or b wing spans were the cream of the crop the game would be better. At least with those dominating movements would actually matter.

You clearly were not playing in the early days of the game.

Plenty of people who were playing in the early days still think the age of the TIE Swarm was better. It was, at the very least, thematic, and very challenging to fly well. The top tables and top spots may have consistently been TIE Swarms, but you never saw them all the way up and down the ladder the way the Fat builds are. I think that's why the complaints seem so very prevalent thee days - TIE Swarm Time Limit Hell was a real thing, and somewhat self-limiting. That's gone now, as the Fat ships become primary across the board.

I am a newer player, I've only been playing for a couple of months now, and have probably played less than 20 rounds - including a regional I entered (just missed the cut ).

To read these forums, it sounds like the game is broken ten different ways to Sunday, with everyone trying to fix it.

That strikes me as odd, because I have played other FFG games, and frankly, this game is the most stable, balanced, dare I say, awesome game I have every played in the genre. If the game is broken - it must have been freak'in perfect at some point.

I can understand that the game is a work in progress - new expansions can only be play tested so much, and when released to the masses, we are always going to see things that didn't (and frankly couldn't) reveal themselves in playtesting - and these will need to be addressed or tweaked or dealt with - but that is exactly what I see happening. If something is too ...wimpy (or strong) for its cost they fix that. If some ability is unbalancing the meta - it gets tweaked in as timely a manner as can be expected.

I have nothing against any fan of the game expressing their opinions about how the game can be enhanced, tweaked or whatever. But I tell you, when I see more than half a dozen posts purporting to "fix" or suggest "fixes" to more than half a dozen alleged problems, it makes the game sound like it is horribly broken.

I am glad I have played the game myself a few times before coming to these forums, or I would be sorely discouraged from buying into it- since it is portrayed here, by virtue of all the (well meaning but) horrible to-see-all-in-one-basket "fix it" posts as being a game that is probably so broken it shouldn't be invested in.

Maybe there should be a pinned "Suggestions for Enhancements" post - where people can debate the merits or demerits of various game play elements and objects, and there they can use the nomenclature of "fix" and "broken" without making the game seem, to the casual observer, to be broken beyond repair.

Just saying.

Ignore the "fix it" posts on here. The game could be absolutely perfect, and people would find something to complain about. When people REALLY like something, and spend so much time with it, they feel like they are in tune with the game, and can see cracks in it's facade.

Weirdly, all of the negativity you see if borne from love. The more, the better!

My point was never to say that I was personally annoyed by the posts, and for that reason the solution you recommend is misplaced - since I am not personally affected by the matter.

My point was just to say that as a newer player, had I come here and seen a multitude of "fix it up" posts , the impression I would have come away with is not that of a loving community, but rather that of a game that was messed up, in dire need of a plethora of fixes, and perhaps not worth my time and investment.

That is the message that I was concerned the forums were inadvertently broadcasting.

I don't imagine we'll fix that - and this post isn't intended to do that - it is just an observation.

hypothetically speaking

if you're scared away from a game just by what people say on its forums, then yes you shouldn't invest in it since you probably were not that interested in it to begin with

no game is perfect and X-wing does have very few problems; posts discussing these problem should not come as a surprise

scrolling through the front page atm, and I'm seeing one suggested x-wing fix, one suggested ordinance fix, one suggested fix-it fix, and nothing else. This is hardly any harbinger of doom unless you look really hard and/or have doubts to project upon the few topics that currently exist

Come on. New to the game or not, how many times have Proton Torpedos been worth their points in you games? Don't settle for a piece of the product that you purchased not working properly - let the manufacturer know that you want that piece fixed.

This game, like almost every complex game, has suffered from some serious design flaws. Discussions of how to resolve them let the developers know what aspects players believe require attention. Then, the ultimate choice is up to the design staff whether to incorporate or ignore the suggestions.

While the game may seem well balanced to you now, you may have started after the era of the un-nerfed Phantom. It severely restricted list building to the point where players were willing to leave over 10 points out of their list in favor of flying two fat Phantoms alone. It was a mess for the game. Players complained and suggested fixes. It got fixed. Would it have been fixed without players calling for it? Probably. But, people should be vocal about how they want the game to develop. It keeps them happy and it keeps the developers in touch with the player base's opinions - that keeps the game healthy.

Edit:

It only keeps the game healthy if the developers actually respond to reasonable complaints/suggestions. Otherwise, it just turns into Warhammer.

I am a newer player, I've only been playing for a couple of months now, and have probably played less than 20 rounds - including a regional I entered (just missed the cut ).

To read these forums, it sounds like the game is broken ten different ways to Sunday, with everyone trying to fix it.

That strikes me as odd, because I have played other FFG games, and frankly, this game is the most stable, balanced, dare I say, awesome game I have every played in the genre. If the game is broken - it must have been freak'in perfect at some point.

I can understand that the game is a work in progress - new expansions can only be play tested so much, and when released to the masses, we are always going to see things that didn't (and frankly couldn't) reveal themselves in playtesting - and these will need to be addressed or tweaked or dealt with - but that is exactly what I see happening. If something is too ...wimpy (or strong) for its cost they fix that. If some ability is unbalancing the meta - it gets tweaked in as timely a manner as can be expected.

I have nothing against any fan of the game expressing their opinions about how the game can be enhanced, tweaked or whatever. But I tell you, when I see more than half a dozen posts purporting to "fix" or suggest "fixes" to more than half a dozen alleged problems, it makes the game sound like it is horribly broken.

I am glad I have played the game myself a few times before coming to these forums, or I would be sorely discouraged from buying into it- since it is portrayed here, by virtue of all the (well meaning but) horrible to-see-all-in-one-basket "fix it" posts as being a game that is probably so broken it shouldn't be invested in.

Maybe there should be a pinned "Suggestions for Enhancements" post - where people can debate the merits or demerits of various game play elements and objects, and there they can use the nomenclature of "fix" and "broken" without making the game seem, to the casual observer, to be broken beyond repair.

Just saying.

Ignore the "fix it" posts on here. The game could be absolutely perfect, and people would find something to complain about. When people REALLY like something, and spend so much time with it, they feel like they are in tune with the game, and can see cracks in it's facade.

Weirdly, all of the negativity you see if borne from love. The more, the better!

My point was never to say that I was personally annoyed by the posts, and for that reason the solution you recommend is misplaced - since I am not personally affected by the matter.

My point was just to say that as a newer player, had I come here and seen a multitude of "fix it up" posts , the impression I would have come away with is not that of a loving community, but rather that of a game that was messed up, in dire need of a plethora of fixes, and perhaps not worth my time and investment.

That is the message that I was concerned the forums were inadvertently broadcasting.

I don't imagine we'll fix that - and this post isn't intended to do that - it is just an observation.

I share your sentiment. A lot of people on these forums are pessimistic Alpha-nerds who get fixated on the idea that their opinion rationalizes the idea that this game is "broken" in some meaningful way. They can't focus on the positive AKA almost everything about X-Wing. If you're like me, and you're not a crazy hardcore board game/tabletop buff who is also the encyclopedia on all things Star Wars - from concept art in the expanded universe to memorizing dialogue from all 6 movies - then these forums can become a bit overbearing. Just bein' honest.

I've found much more pleasant and reasonable discussions on some other sites, where people are very happy to help new players and share their experiences without swamping the forums with negative ideas that, as you've stated, can worry and turn off newer players.

Broken is a subjective term however this game does have a gradual power creep with the rare not so gradual spike.

The fixes you see published by ffg have more to do with making older ships relevant in this power creep than fixing a broken game.

I would say the best balance was after wave three with Han shoots first being a good but not broken turret, tie swarm being a strong no longer dominant list and bbxx just winning the championship based on exceptional flying more then overpowered list and margin of victory shenanigans.

Shortly thereafter we got c3p0 and wave 4 which screwed up balance horribly for the next 3 waves. Fat Han and over dominant phantoms took over the post wave 4 meta. Wave 5 added an imperial version of a fat turret and another competitve rebel fat turret. Wave 6 nerfed the phantom but added autothrusters making fel interceptor take whispers phantom same role in the imperial lists and added a scum large based ship that was competitve and played differently then the fat turret meta. Now some people will tell you this is diverse list building now since there are multiple versions of the same types of ships and list being competitve but it's not. It's just ffg way of making ships able to compete with the massive power creep they caused In wave 4. Expect the advanced fix in the next epic ship to be another large power creep and wave 7 to make several older ships slightly more competitve again. However there are now quite a few ships that are largely no longer competitive.