4 attack dice.

I don't care what it costs.

It's probably the only thing that would make me fly them.

And look at them...they've got 4 guns!

The Lambda has 8 guns, the Phantom has 5 guns, the Defender has 4 guns + 2 ion cannons, the Falcon has 2 quad turrets, do you want me to keep going?

Guns =/= Attack dice

Good points.

Yes, the ships with a lot of guns tend to also be the ones that are the most pointy.

It is understood that Guns =/= Attack Dice. The comment "they've got 4 guns" is surely with tongue in cheek. Four red dice may be a good or bad fix, but let's evaluate it on its game balance merits please.

It is understood that Guns =/= Attack Dice. The comment "they've got 4 guns" is surely with tongue in cheek. Four red dice may be a good or bad fix, but let's evaluate it on its game balance merits please.

I dont know if 4 dice would unbalance the X Wing, I dont think so, but additional offensive potential on a reasonably maneuverable ship with 5 HP would probably cost more than the 2 or so points worth of buff it is supposed to need to be considered points efficient. I suspect an extra red dice would come with at least a 3 point cost on top of the buff.

4 Red dice would definitely distinguish the X Wing from the B, E and Warthog Y. It would be the only Rebel ship with 4 reds and the only other ship bar the phantom, which relies on different mechanics to be effective. I do think it might be a little too much. 4 Rookies would roll 16/20 dice (range dependent) and potentially can do that every turn, whilst the phantom probably misses half its shooting opportunities through cloak shenanigans. The current highest total of red dice I can think of off the top of my head is 16/24, from 8 Academook TIEs or Z-95s. It would make X Wings significantly better jousters and with their reasonable dial they could prove to be devastating if flown well.

Problem is if you say X Wings deserve 4 dice, then Interceptors and Defenders pout. TBH they have as good a claim to 4 dice as the X.

Perhaps a better solution might be to add offensive output through other means, similar to the way ATC fixed the TIE Advanced, but as an X Wing specific mod; maybe adding extra damage under certain conditions, or extending its range 1 bonus to range 2 for example due to its convergence ability.

Im not particularly enamored with making the X more expensive - any fix has to be very good value for points, but also needs to keep the ship's cost low enough for it to be considered as mainline fodder for your lists. The X isnt a specialist ship like the HWK - it should be a valid choice in multiples - and it needs to be a **** sight better than it currently is to oust the B Wing from the 20 ish point slot that it currently dominates.

Going after elite pilots exclusivly is rather odd, isn't it? None of the X-wings are particularly common in competitive play, but the unique pilots are far more popular than the generics. Any X-wing patch needs to address the entire ship.

I always suggest a title card like this:

X-Wing Refit

Reduce the cost of an equipped modification card by 3 points (to a minimum of 0).

If you think the X-wing just doesn't have good enough stats for the point cost, you can buff the stats; if you think it needs a post-maneuver movement ability, you can add one, etc.

A refit title (like the most popular option that has been panned for months now; a 3 point mod discount) and a few new astromech options that are not reliant on dice or actions to function would definitely help them out. Upgrades that help the X-wing be competitive in a dogfight normally make it too expensive and this usually drives the choice to pick up a B or a couple Z's in its place. For its cost, an upgraded X should be able to handle a variety of threats among which should be handling it's singular point cost vs that many in generics. For example: a 24 point X-wing should be an equal threat to two Binayre Z-95s or Academy TIEs. It should force actual thought into whether or not to take 2 Zs or a B. This is not how it is now and as such the venerable X-wing is relegated to the hanger.

I would reword the refit title to allow the discount to apply to astromechs and torpedoes, in the possibly vain hope that the X-Wing could find some new niches for itself. I'm borrowing from a post I made elsewhere, but new astromechs would help:

The nice thing about the astromech route for buffing torps is that the B-Wing wouldn't get a buff for its two torpedo slots.

I would reword the refit title to allow the discount to apply to astromechs and torpedoes, in the possibly vain hope that the X-Wing could find some new niches for itself. I'm borrowing from a post I made elsewhere, but new astromechs would help:

The nice thing about the astromech route for buffing torps is that the B-Wing wouldn't get a buff for its two torpedo slots.

Do this as a modification and one point less an I'll buy it.

So what about a zero point cost rogue squadron title (PS 4 min) that grants +1 attack die and/or +1 defense die at range at range 2?

I would reword the refit title to allow the discount to apply to astromechs and torpedoes, in the possibly vain hope that the X-Wing could find some new niches for itself. I'm borrowing from a post I made elsewhere, but new astromechs would help:

The nice thing about the astromech route for buffing torps is that the B-Wing wouldn't get a buff for its two torpedo slots.

Do this as a modification and one point less an I'll buy it.

Then it would buff the generic B-Wing, which doesn't need it. I'm ok with it helping the E, X, and Y torpedo slots.

But I agree on the one point less suggestion. I had originally posted the R3 Astro in conjunction with a title that knocked 2 points off an astro for the X-Wing, so it was basically free.

I would reword the refit title to allow the discount to apply to astromechs and torpedoes, in the possibly vain hope that the X-Wing could find some new niches for itself. I'm borrowing from a post I made elsewhere, but new astromechs would help:

The nice thing about the astromech route for buffing torps is that the B-Wing wouldn't get a buff for its two torpedo slots.

Do this as a modification and one point less an I'll buy it.

Then it would buff the generic B-Wing, which doesn't need it. I'm ok with it helping the E, X, and Y torpedo slots.

But I agree on the one point less suggestion. I had originally posted the R3 Astro in conjunction with a title that knocked 2 points off an astro for the X-Wing, so it was basically free.

Nah! I just don't want this fix to be Rebel only.

Making an Xwing have more firepower than a B wing would seem odd given that canonically the B wing is designed to be able to take on capital ships and is totally laden with cannons, autoblasters etc etc (thats before ordnance)

But... the B wing we have in the game is actually a stripped B wing. If it were canon it would have to have a HLC, Ion cannon and autoblaster on it and would probably cost about 50 points.

So maybe a 'raw' xwing having more hard wired firepower than an unloaded bwing is ok?

I would reword the refit title to allow the discount to apply to astromechs and torpedoes, in the possibly vain hope that the X-Wing could find some new niches for itself. I'm borrowing from a post I made elsewhere, but new astromechs would help:

The nice thing about the astromech route for buffing torps is that the B-Wing wouldn't get a buff for its two torpedo slots.

Do this as a modification and one point less an I'll buy it.

Then it would buff the generic B-Wing, which doesn't need it. I'm ok with it helping the E, X, and Y torpedo slots.

But I agree on the one point less suggestion. I had originally posted the R3 Astro in conjunction with a title that knocked 2 points off an astro for the X-Wing, so it was basically free.

Nah! I just don't want this fix to be Rebel only.

Make it Modification, 1pt, Must have 2 or greater agility to equip. (Justify it as a ship with better mobility can keep its target in its sights easier.)

Now it works on A, X, Z, E, Bomber, Advanced, Defender, M3-A, Star Viper, but not on Y, B, Punisher. Actually might find a use on a Firespray too.

Krassis, mod, Ext Mun, Clusters, Seismics, Recon Spec. 48 pts. Thats 2 rounds of clusters with 1 reroll and a focus on all 4 attacks.

If you want to limit it more, add, "When performing a Torpedo secondary weapon Attack..." to the beginning of the card text.

Rogue Squadron (title, Xwing only)

You when you receve a stress token, also receve an Evade token. Your Torpedos cost 4 points less.

Even if you never fire your torpedo, it's a threat the enemy has to honor. and the ability to turn every Xwing into a less maneuverable Fell has to make up for the Xwing's lack of durability.

I would reword the refit title to allow the discount to apply to astromechs and torpedoes, in the possibly vain hope that the X-Wing could find some new niches for itself. I'm borrowing from a post I made elsewhere, but new astromechs would help:

The nice thing about the astromech route for buffing torps is that the B-Wing wouldn't get a buff for its two torpedo slots.

Let's buff torpedoes by wasting the Astromech slot, terrible idea. Chaardaan refit all over again.

Ok, do we want to buff the x-wing, or torpedoes?

Title: switch to Targeting Computer (x-wing only?)

You can only get target locks in your arc, but may fire torpedoes out of arc at one less attack die.

Or

Title: bullseye

Secondary weapons that require TL can be fired without needing or spending TL

Either one of these titles can be free, and don't have to be unique, or even limited to x-wings.

I still say we need a FAQ that allows all ordanance to be fired out of arc, but at one less die. Nera still keeps her ability at full dice, but she's not as special. I don't think many people put her in lists anyway.

So what about a zero point cost rogue squadron title (PS 4 min) that grants +1 attack die and/or +1 defense die at range at range 2?

Very simple, very nice. May be juuust enough. I wouldn't mind also adding either a barrel roll or evade action into the action bar for 2pts, but for 0 I would give this a try.

Title: switch to Targeting Computer (x-wing only?)

You can only get target locks in your arc, but may fire torpedoes out of arc at one less attack die.

Yet another, "Let's buff this thing and then immediately nerf it back into the ground" suggestion.

Title: bullseye

Secondary weapons that require TL can be fired without needing or spending TL

That would be cool, however it would only buff ordnance on X Wings specifically. However, since the X Wing would be the only ship with viable ordnance, maybe.

I still say we need a FAQ that allows all ordanance to be fired out of arc, but at one less die. Nera still keeps her ability at full dice, but she's not as special. I don't think many people put her in lists anyway.

That would simultaneously not really be much of a buff, make everything with an ordnance slot an annoying turret, and break Flechette Torpedoes + Munition Failsafe as you could go quite a few rounds never hitting with it intentionally.

I'm fine with turret ordnance being a Hot Shot Blaster and Nera thing only, its what makes them unique.

Like I said, are we trying to buff all ordanance across the board? I think that's another thread somewhere. I thought this one was about X-wing fixes.

I don't see what the big problem with ordanance is. There's some lists that benifit from it greatly, while in others it's just a waste of points. Is it a crime that 4 Rookies can each take PTs and be a winning list? I don't think so. I didn't see any rookies coming out of Yavin, just a couple named pilots. But if you really want something of a 'fix' that doesn't take up a slot or cost more pints, just FAQ that all missiles and torpedoes that require a TL to be spent cost one less point. Or two if you think that's fair, down to minimum of one I guess. Steps on EM quit a bit and it's a complete redo of costs for entire classes of upgrades, but I'm sure people will find room for proton torpedoes and concussion missiles at 3 or 2 points a pop.

If that were true then people probably would be taking them at 4 points. It's not necessarily their cost that makes them unattractive, it's their poor action economy and the way that you have to somehow, effectively have more than 1 action to get anywhere near breaking even with them. PTs and Concussions are at least 4 points (not counting EPTs to make them work) and 2 actions for an attack that can effectively be dodged with a lucky green roll even if you roll a majority of hits/crits?!?!

If that were true then people probably would be taking them at 4 points. It's not necessarily their cost that makes them unattractive, it's their poor action economy and the way that you have to somehow, effectively have more than 1 action to get anywhere near breaking even with them. PTs and Concussions are at least 4 points (not counting EPTs to make them work) and 2 actions for an attack that can effectively be dodged with a lucky green roll even if you roll a majority of hits/crits?!?!

That's why missiles and torps work well with folks like Vader and Drea, those pilots are set up for action economy. Low skill pilots are just gonna have a harder time getting both a TL to begin with and that focus for dice mod. Maybe that's what FFG wanted! If you want to put torps on Rookies then you better be able to out think and out fly the opponent to use those torps before they end up being wasted points. Otherwise use higher skill pilots that can get you multiple TL and focus. FFG had a specific game play design when they made ordanance, and since they haven't FAQed them or 'fixed' them they still must be following that design and think it's still working.

I am a casual and relatively new player so I am taking it on face value that the X-Wing needs about a 2 point bump. How about something like this:

Rogue Squadron 0 points:

Pilot Skill 3+

X wing Only

Take a modification at -2 points

Add a second modification slot

This can get you a cheap shield or hull upgrades and doesn't have an opportunity cost. It could also allow you to add EU and AT to offset the glass cannon nature of the X and give you a repositioning option, but with a cost.

It's similar to the X1 title but different enough to make it interesting.

Maybe add a new modification like maneuvering thrusters that adds a barrel roll to the action bar for 4 points if you want a BR on a ship.

If that were true then people probably would be taking them at 4 points. It's not necessarily their cost that makes them unattractive, it's their poor action economy and the way that you have to somehow, effectively have more than 1 action to get anywhere near breaking even with them. PTs and Concussions are at least 4 points (not counting EPTs to make them work) and 2 actions for an attack that can effectively be dodged with a lucky green roll even if you roll a majority of hits/crits?!?!

That's why missiles and torps work well with folks like Vader and Drea, those pilots are set up for action economy. Low skill pilots are just gonna have a harder time getting both a TL to begin with and that focus for dice mod. Maybe that's what FFG wanted! If you want to put torps on Rookies then you better be able to out think and out fly the opponent to use those torps before they end up being wasted points. Otherwise use higher skill pilots that can get you multiple TL and focus. FFG had a specific game play design when they made ordanance, and since they haven't FAQed them or 'fixed' them they still must be following that design and think it's still working.

Maybe FFG does move in mysterious ways, but if they have a plan to save ordnance, they have yet to reveal it to us puny mortals and from the tone of discussion on the boards so far, they haven't convinced many of ordnance's saving graces. Sure, maybe a few elite pilots are capable of getting some mileage out of ordnance, but that requires a huge points investment and purpose building them for that one role alone - often only one or possibly two shots. Its a lot more cost effective to just get better primary weapon effect at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see ordnance do well, but like most people I find it an uphill struggle to get ordnance to work, bar a few exceptions.

If that were true then people probably would be taking them at 4 points. It's not necessarily their cost that makes them unattractive, it's their poor action economy and the way that you have to somehow, effectively have more than 1 action to get anywhere near breaking even with them. PTs and Concussions are at least 4 points (not counting EPTs to make them work) and 2 actions for an attack that can effectively be dodged with a lucky green roll even if you roll a majority of hits/crits?!?!

That's why missiles and torps work well with folks like Vader and Drea, those pilots are set up for action economy. Low skill pilots are just gonna have a harder time getting both a TL to begin with and that focus for dice mod. Maybe that's what FFG wanted! If you want to put torps on Rookies then you better be able to out think and out fly the opponent to use those torps before they end up being wasted points. Otherwise use higher skill pilots that can get you multiple TL and focus. FFG had a specific game play design when they made ordanance, and since they haven't FAQed them or 'fixed' them they still must be following that design and think it's still working.

Maybe FFG does move in mysterious ways, but if they have a plan to save ordnance, they have yet to reveal it to us puny mortals and from the tone of discussion on the boards so far, they haven't convinced many of ordnance's saving graces. Sure, maybe a few elite pilots are capable of getting some mileage out of ordnance, but that requires a huge points investment and purpose building them for that one role alone - often only one or possibly two shots. Its a lot more cost effective to just get better primary weapon effect at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see ordnance do well, but like most people I find it an uphill struggle to get ordnance to work, bar a few exceptions.

theres a Starviper pilot that loves ordinance, a Tie Advanced, any Awing higher than prototype can run PTL and ordinance, I've got a Nera/Dutch (and katarn) list that does Ok with ordinance, Lt Bloch loves his assault/ion missiles, and Extra Munitions is set to bring the tie bomber+TL passing shuttle up to standard. It may be an uphill battle, but it's hardly useless.

All great examples, I have flown all of them apart from Starviper (havent flown my scum much yet). And all of which serve to underline the fact that to use ordnance effectively at the moment you must be one of approximately half a dozen unique or elite pilots with access to PTL - or other action economy boosters. Whereas cannon, turrets and bombs are a lot more common. Doesnt seem right somehow does it? I never claimed ordnance was totally useless. However unless there is something in Wave 7 we haven't seen yet, all EM seems to do is lower cost (in some cases) of subsequent ordnance upgrades after the first that you buy. I see it being great on a few craft which can spam the higher cost and multiple ordnance types and pretty middling on most others.

What EM doesnt do is make it easier to get those ordnance upgrades to work, it doesnt make them easier to get off nor improve their odds of dealing significant damage - which seems to be (from comments on the forums) a major component of why people find it hard to use, especially compared to the effectiveness of competitively priced cannons, turrets etc. I hope in conjunction with other upgrades EM will come into its own. Like I said I would love for ordnance to work better.

I'm toying with building a list around Squad Leader/Veteran Instincts/Expirimental interface Tycho.

My ships move into position and focus, the enemy aces move, then tycho moves and tells his buddies to target lock. then you start raining ordinance on the enemy.