Or... Declining the joust?

When we set our squads and position our obstacles, it's time to place our ships. Usually we will place dependant upon open lanes, future turns and how the opponent places their ships (or where we expect them to be placed.

As we look at our opponents squad and our own, we oft choose a target and strategy - thinking do we joust?

Let's assume that the opponent has p.s. 2 bwings and places first. I wonder, is it possible to avoid a joust? If so, what is the alternative? You say "well what am I flying?" I say - it doesn't matter. For sake of belaying argument, let's say I have Fel and Chiraneau or Dash and Corran.

What are the possibilities?

1 both players want to joust

2 one player wants to joust

3 neither player wants a joust.

Ignoring 1, because it leads to a joust, let's look at 2 and 3. Is a joust avoidable? The answer to this has interesting consequences for the application of Major Jugglers jousting values.

My train ride has ended and so time has come, and I will edit this post to add conclusions .

In my experience, if I'm facing a two ship list, I really want to joust and my opponent really wants to not joust. If the numbers are closer as to how many ships we each have (unless mine are really fragile things like M3A) then I'm more likely to want to have battle through the obstacle field.

I trust in my piloting skills well enough so that whenever i find myself outnumbered (almost all the time since I stopped playing Swarm), I will not joust; but rather try to block and separate and use his/her superior numbers against my opponent.

In short, I love dragging wrecks through the rocks.

And yes, it is avoidable, but it takes two to tango and there are exceptions.

i.e. two Falcons going up and down the board on one side with no Ion weapons on the table.

I often play a three interceptor list and my usual goal is to get behind the enemy in two turns, I usually have to wheather a few long range shots flanking them but autothrusters made this so much safer.

I never joust with them , i try and get them all race up one flank, spin behind and stay behind the enemy.

take ion, and then you get to make all the decisions

well, you can't really joust with ion. It's more one player drifts along slowly while the other keeps reapplying the effect

take ion, and then you get to make all the decisions

well, you can't really joust with ion. It's more one player drifts along slowly while the other keeps reapplying the effect

You can joust with ion, for maybe two turns if you get your opponent ionized at range 3 on the first round of shooting and are willing to allow range 1 shots at you on the following turn.

take ion, and then you get to make all the decisions

well, you can't really joust with ion. It's more one player drifts along slowly while the other keeps reapplying the effect

alright fickle, now i have a question.

we all know your absolute impotent rage at turrets. but turrets follow the exact same premise of ion -- they remove maneuvering (something you claim to be integral to the heart and soul of the game).

so whats the difference?

take ion, and then you get to make all the decisions

well, you can't really joust with ion. It's more one player drifts along slowly while the other keeps reapplying the effect

alright fickle, now i have a question.

we all know your absolute impotent rage at turrets. but turrets follow the exact same premise of ion -- they remove maneuvering (something you claim to be integral to the heart and soul of the game).

so whats the difference?

Ion can be counter-played.

Your enemy must hit with it in the first place for it to work

You can still boost/barrel-roll after being Ionized for more mobility

You can be ionized and still be in a spot where your opponent cannot attack you, if they didn't take advantage of it.

Contrast this with a Range 1-3 Turret

Irrespective of what you do, if you can shoot at them, they can shoot at you.

Or... Declining the joust?

When we set our squads and position our obstacles, it's time to place our ships. Usually we will place dependant upon open lanes, future turns and how the opponent places their ships (or where we expect them to be placed.

As we look at our opponents squad and our own, we oft choose a target and strategy - thinking do we joust?

Let's assume that the opponent has p.s. 2 bwings and places first. I wonder, is it possible to avoid a joust? If so, what is the alternative? You say "well what am I flying?" I say - it doesn't matter. For sake of belaying argument, let's say I have Fel and Chiraneau or Dash and Corran.

What are the possibilities?

1 both players want to joust

2 one player wants to joust

3 neither player wants a joust.

Ignoring 1, because it leads to a joust, let's look at 2 and 3. Is a joust avoidable? The answer to this has interesting consequences for the application of Major Jugglers jousting values.

My train ride has ended and so time has come, and I will edit this post to add conclusions .

Case study in avoiding a joust is watching a Super Dash play against a jousting list. Dash is either arc dodging or if he's forced into a front arc, he's playing the range game to try only take one or two ships worth of fire, and only at range 3.

Jousting is very avoidable and is the entire point of many many lists in XWMG.

take ion, and then you get to make all the decisions

well, you can't really joust with ion. It's more one player drifts along slowly while the other keeps reapplying the effect

alright fickle, now i have a question.

we all know your absolute impotent rage at turrets. but turrets follow the exact same premise of ion -- they remove maneuvering (something you claim to be integral to the heart and soul of the game).

so whats the difference?

Ion can be counter-played.

Your enemy must hit with it in the first place for it to work

You can still boost/barrel-roll after being Ionized for more mobility

You can be ionized and still be in a spot where your opponent cannot attack you, if they didn't take advantage of it.

Contrast this with a Range 1-3 Turret

Irrespective of what you do, if you can shoot at them, they can shoot at you.

I don't know what I've been doing to get completely out of context "why do you hate turret" questions, but I'm sure glad someone else is around to state the obvious

though, just to be safe, we should also add that all non-Leebo (Crew) sources of ionization are currently

1.) arc-locked (aside from outrider, which I have yet to see )

or

2.) range 1-2

or

3.) both

#3 is my personal favorite because BTL-A4s don't have to choose between damage and ionization, which really screws over jousters and gives you a prayer against PWTs. IT also works amazingly well with the r3-a2 double tap for that stress + ion package, but unlike turrets it has the drawback of screwing over the y's maneuverability meaning you can't just ion and double stress and then k-turn and continue plugging away

Jousting is very avoidable and is the entire point of many many lists in XWMG.

Yes, but is jousting avoidable if one player is set upon it? You yourself referred to Corran being forced in arc, albeit at range. Compound this with the first pass. I'll add the rest to my OP as soon as I am able.

Jousting is very avoidable and is the entire point of many many lists in XWMG.

Yes, but is jousting avoidable if one player is set upon it? You yourself referred to Corran being forced in arc, albeit at range. Compound this with the first pass. I'll add the rest to my OP as soon as I am able.

that's going to depend highly on how you define "joust"

if "joust" is just "exchange dice" then Corran's going to be a-okay taking a few long range potshots. The goal is to limit incoming fire by getting him out of range or out of as many arcs as possible, so you're not really jousting with one ship so much as the entire list. As long as Corran's only taking fire from a few ships or 1 super-modified ship, he will basically never die. A one on one pass is basically an ideal scenario.

that game comes down mostly to abusing obstacles and forcing your opponent through bad pathways. Having barrel-roll helps you out immensely there. Don't be afraid to just completely change course away from your opponent if you can get him to come through a chunck of obstacles. Lord knows I've deployed many games only to perform a sharp turn at first opportunity and snake along my deployment area/the table edge until I could find a favorable engagement.

If one player wants to avoid jousting..... well, the other player will head more or less straight at you, then seek to drop into the classic koiogran/green straight/koiogran pattern of jousting whilst wearing you down.

To avoid this (because you're worse at it than he is) you've got a couple of options:

1. Don't attack him square on - go up the flank and loop round, so that (in theory) at your first engagement he's heading "down" towards your board edge whilst you're heading "left" or "right" across the board - even if he koiograns next turn, he'll be pointing his arc of fire at the space where you were, not where you are.
2. Seek to break sideways after the first pass. Ships with a Segnor's loop is ideal for this - especially IG-88D, or else a Firespray with its auxiliary firing arc. Line up your initial pass and take your lumps but instead of koiogran turning to match him, break off left or right and lay your guns over the space he intends to koiogran turn into. Ideally, you'll have a shot and he won't - and he'll have a stress token prevening any dramatic maneuvers next turn (granted, so will you if you segnor's looped, but you're pointing the right way and he isn't).
3. Seek to break away after the first pass. If you exchanged shots at range 1-2, then instead of koiogran turning and continuing the battering, hit the gas. A Straight 5, plus boost or decloak, plus the length of his own koiogran maneuvers, can often take you clear out of range - and once you've broken contact, if you're in the faster and more agile ship, you're probably going to be in the superior position once you come back in again.

Jousting is very avoidable and is the entire point of many many lists in XWMG.

Yes, but is jousting avoidable if one player is set upon it? You yourself referred to Corran being forced in arc, albeit at range. Compound this with the first pass. I'll add the rest to my OP as soon as I am able.

I referred to Dash being forced in arc, although the difference isn't huge besides that Dash loves to fight at R3 and almost always has PTL and EU.

Yes, jousting is avoidable if one person is set upon it. Watch a good Fel player too, they can avoid arcs while still shooting all day long.