Weird... People are complaining about realism instead of Prequals and eras!

I'm not complaining, someone asked a question, I answered, and now people somehow think I want realism in Star Wars.....

Weird... People are complaining about realism instead of Prequals and eras!

Don't remind them!

Weird... People are complaining about realism instead of Prequals and eras!

I'm not complaining, someone asked a question, I answered, and now people somehow think I want realism in Star Wars.....

Not the best word perhaps... I was just amazed that it wasn't a flame war between prequalists and separatists.

Weird... People are complaining about realism instead of Prequals and eras!

Don't remind them!

Too late... the droids out of the closet. Or the ewok's out of the tree...or wookie's out of the... um tree again...

That certainly went downhill quickly.

Weird... People are complaining about realism instead of Prequals and eras!

I'm not complaining, someone asked a question, I answered, and now people somehow think I want realism in Star Wars.....

Not the best word perhaps... I was just amazed that it wasn't a flame war between prequalists and separatists.

Weird... People are complaining about realism instead of Prequals and eras!

Don't remind them!

Too late... the droids out of the closet. Or the ewok's out of the tree...or wookie's out of the... um tree again...

That certainly went downhill quickly.

Probably because I and many others have tried to make V-wing threads and been shot down from the get-go. OTists probably assume their message has gotten across? I'm as surprised as you are though really

All this talk of realism... if SW was realistic, there wouldnt even be fighters, they simply don't hold enough fuel.

Unless they are using nuclear powered reactionless drives.

I never said I wanted realism, I was just pointing out that SW doesn't follow real physics, therefore things that apply (e.g. a top speed), might not make sense in real life (even if you run out of fuel, inertia will cause you to keep accelerating)

It's been a long time since I've been in a physics or astronomy class, but I'm 99.9% certain that inertia doesn't cause acceleration.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted on by an outside force.

If you're burning fuel firing off a rocket, you're going to change your speed, either accelerating or decelerating. If you're falling into a gravity well, you're going to accelerate (until friction off-sets your acceleration and you achieve terminal velocity). But that's because of the chemical reaction or the pull of gravity, not because of inertia. Inertia only determines how much energy needs to be expended to get you moving, to stop you, to accelerate you, to decelerate you, to turn, &c.

I never said I wanted realism, I was just pointing out that SW doesn't follow real physics, therefore things that apply (e.g. a top speed), might not make sense in real life (even if you run out of fuel, inertia will cause you to keep accelerating)

If you run out of fuel you'll keep moving at the same speed because space has nothing to slow you down. You won't accelerate unless you apply a force to speed you up.

All this talk of realism... if SW was realistic, there wouldnt even be fighters, they simply don't hold enough fuel.

Unless they are using nuclear powered reactionless drives.

true

Since FFG seems to hate the idea of releasing the Assault Gunboat or TIE Avenger, maybe we can have a couple other ships that would seem to be autoincludes.

The Eta-2 & V-Wing

Unless you include upgrades that modernize these craft they are hopelessly outmatched in just about every way. I would lower the stats to reflect that and as I suggested before, possibly add an upgrade system or cards exclusive to them that represents modernization

Eta-2s were flown only by Jedi, as for the V-wing, it is more like a proto-interceptor. It was overall slower then the Fighter, but had much faster acceleration, I would probably have boost over barrel roll. It did have shields.

The Interceptor was flown by some normal pilots but I grantee more died flying this craft than TIE Pilots flying TIE, % wise anyway. It did come with hardly any avionics at all, its only sensors came with the astromech and its sensor range is laughable compared to oither star fighters. It had no ecm or eccm, unless the astromech provided a limited amount. No targeting computer just a holographic sight. The canons over heat quickly. It would make a great stunt craft at a air space show though.

As much as I would love to fly the Eta-2 in X-Wing, we already have the interceptor, and it doesn't really fit the time scale as it wasn't mass produced after the fall of the Jedi

The only things better about the Republic Interceptor vs Imperial Interceptor is its small size and it can travel at mach 40-50ish without shields in atmo. If the Imp version has shields or atmo fligh mods it will travel around mach 111, without it though its like traveling mach 1 +.

Eta-2s were flown only by Jedi, as for the V-wing, it is more like a proto-interceptor. It was overall slower then the Fighter, but had much faster acceleration, I would probably have boost over barrel roll. It did have shields.

At least one source (admittedly non-canon but we've got plenty that isn't canon anymore in this game) has clones flying a version of the Eta-2 Actis. It lacked an astro slot and had three engines instead of two.

There are canon sources that show Vader still used his after the Clone Wars on a few occasions.

I think a lot of the issue TCW era ships was maintenance costs. The shift to mass-produced TIE fighters that aren't exactly very protective over larger heavier ships like the ARC-170 makes the Eta-2 seem pretty reasonable as a transitional ship, perhaps reserved for aces until newer fighters were around. I doubt it was very long before they were phased out but we've never been given a year for it AFAIK.

All those sources are still canon... The Empire dropped the Arc because it was too big, not maneuverable, and easily taken out by faster smaller craft. It was these craft that inspired the Empire to replace the late rep craft with TIEs. Except for rich individuals the Rebs dropped the ARC because of cost to maintain as well as lack of molds to make new parts as well as specific tools need to maintain them.

Weird... People are complaining about realism instead of Prequals and eras!

I'm not complaining, someone asked a question, I answered, and now people somehow think I want realism in Star Wars.....

Not the best word perhaps... I was just amazed that it wasn't a flame war between prequalists and separatists.

Weird... People are complaining about realism instead of Prequals and eras!

Don't remind them!

Too late... the droids out of the closet. Or the ewok's out of the tree...or wookie's out of the... um tree again... That certainly went downhill quickly.

Probably because I and many others have tried to make V-wing threads and been shot down from the get-go. OTists probably assume their message has gotten across? I'm as surprised as you are though really

Well since everyone clearly loved my ETA2 stuff to the point of speechlessness... On to the vwing:

Stats?

Actions?

Upgrades?

Any famous Vwing pilots?

Stele flew every TIE under the sun. Corran in an E-wing isn't a ridiculous stretch.

Every TIE except the one TIE he's a named pilot for.

Stele should have been a Defender pilot, as he's the character that basically introduced the ship into the Star Wars universe.

Stele hasn't flown every TIE, Baron Fel is more likely to have since he is depicted being a test Pilot before Yavin. He had flown the Defender and Phantom at that point and at that time every Imp craft that came through the testing grounds.

Stele shouldn't be in a Defender because he doesn't like that craft. When given the chance too fly Defenders for the 181st he chose to fly the Avenger instead.

Hasn't FFG said no prequel ships?

No prequel content. They won't release Republic V-wings.

It's also very difficult to figure out FFG priorities of late. Passing over the scimitar and Missile boat for the interdictor/punisher was definately not what anyone foresaw.

The Scimitar is an abomination and the Missile Boat is the All Powerful Slayer Of Invincible TIE Defenders Decommisioned By Palpatine Because It Broke The Plot and therefore not suitable for the role and price range they wanted. It's not that hard to see why they went with what they did.

Stele should have been a Defender pilot, as he's the character that basically introduced the ship into the Star Wars universe.

I swear Grand Admiral Demetrius Zaarin was the guy behind the TIE defender.

Maarek's in the Advanced because they needed a second TIE advanced pilot for Wave 1 and it was a nice nod to the flight sims. Come Wave 4, making one of the two pilots Maarek would prevent them from being run with Maarek, which the FFG designers thought was an unnecessary restriction. It's the same reason the PS8 E-wing is Corran instead of Luke.

Advanced=/=Avenger. The X1 fix should have been just releasing the Avenger, because it would have a native 3 attack and system slot without the need for purchasing a huge ship. Might as well release the Inquisitor as a pilot for the X1, he flew a 'TIE Advanced' (V1) as well, before Vader!

The TIE avenger is called a TIE advanced in the one source it appears in and is treated as the production model of the TIE advanced x1. It's entirely possible that FFG decided to treat the two ships as one, at least back when they were making Wave 1. Note Vader's card says TIE advanced x1 and the others all say TIE advanced.

Its the X2.

It was overall slower then the Fighter, but had much faster acceleration

What? That doesn't make sense.

Because SW doesn't make sense. Its "top speed" is slower than a tie fighter, but it accelerates much faster.

If that still doesn't make sense, It hits top speed faster than the Tie, but the Tie has a higher top speed.

I'm not sure how can't make sense. We have vehicles in the real world that work exactly like this. Faster acceleration, lower top speed.

It doesn't make sense, because "technically speaking", you can't have a top speed in space.

Thats not exactly correct, depending how far the technology and information gathered on the workings of space phenomenon, you'll ether have craft that can accelerate for a set amount of time and never reach the speed limit of that set part of space, or you'll have craft reach the speed limit for that set part of space, it varies, lastly you will have craft that can breach any known issues that would prevent extreme traveling speeds.

Three things you are seeing in SW books and games are "air speed limit" "max acceleration" and MGLT. The craft in SW are able to manipulate the way the travel through space in an unknown fashion. Its not even mentioned in tech books. It allows them to travel as if they are in atmo. BUT and this is cool, the have to option to switch this mode of travel so they can maneuver like craft do now in space that humans use.

It was overall slower then the Fighter, but had much faster acceleration

What? That doesn't make sense.

Because SW doesn't make sense. Its "top speed" is slower than a tie fighter, but it accelerates much faster.If that still doesn't make sense, It hits top speed faster than the Tie, but the Tie has a higher top speed.

I'm not sure how can't make sense. We have vehicles in the real world that work exactly like this. Faster acceleration, lower top speed.

It doesn't make sense, because "technically speaking", you can't have a top speed in space.

Since when did physics have anything to do with Star Wars?

There would be a top acceleration as well as an effective relative speed during an encounter that would be optimal for engaging the enemy.

If you want more realism, tho, all space fleets would have tiny droid fighters covered in thrusters and turrets, and would fly and fire in any direction at incredible accelerations. And capital ships would ignore them except in large numbers. Missiles, torpedoes and bombs would more likely be carried by kamikaze droid bombers or be large, fast warheads launched by capital ships.

And orbital seiges would consist of constant bombardment of asteroids from the local system until the global particle shielding is overcome.

But this is Star Wars. We wants peoples in pointy space ships dogfighting in space like airplanes! Cause it's awesome!

Against the Empire or Rebels those tactics wouldn't work. The Asteroids would constantly be destroyed by the shields without affecting it because its constantly hyper cycling its shield projection. They work differently than the shields on cap ships and fighters. A civilization that can build shielding like this will also not have problems with asteroids... depending on the size, also depending on the output of shields and asteroid composition. if they are like the DS2 shields there will be no problems.

Droid fighters like you mentioned are too susceptible to ecm. Its a problem any remote operated craft in real life has to deal with. If its command signal is interfered with it becomes an expensive chunk of junk, or is very limited in what it can do remote wise IF it can even detect targets or defend objectives will being bombarded by ecm.

All this talk of realism... if SW was realistic, there wouldnt even be fighters, they simply don't hold enough fuel.

There is a job and palace for everything. They wouldn't be as long ranged as large craft for the most part.

I never said I wanted realism, I was just pointing out that SW doesn't follow real physics, therefore things that apply (e.g. a top speed), might not make sense in real life (even if you run out of fuel, inertia will cause you to keep accelerating)

The physics that wrote the cross section books made SW fit with the laws of physics as humans know them in 2004. By that time we have developed technology that is much closer to what we see in star wars. You know some scientists in Scotland were able to design a special piece of equipment that allowed them to emit photons / lasers and once they were produced they travel a lot less faster than 186282 miles per second. More amazing was that it wasn't emitted through any special medium and it still traveled at slower speed than what was expected.

I am still sure they are using hard-light lasers in SW, that technology as well as ner perfect light manipulation via artificial magnetism didn't exist via humans on earth when the crossection books were written.

Wow, the Eta-2 ship looks amazing

It was overall slower then the Fighter, but had much faster acceleration

What? That doesn't make sense.

Because SW doesn't make sense. Its "top speed" is slower than a tie fighter, but it accelerates much faster.If that still doesn't make sense, It hits top speed faster than the Tie, but the Tie has a higher top speed.

I'm not sure how can't make sense. We have vehicles in the real world that work exactly like this. Faster acceleration, lower top speed.

It doesn't make sense, because "technically speaking", you can't have a top speed in space.

Since when did physics have anything to do with Star Wars?

There would be a top acceleration as well as an effective relative speed during an encounter that would be optimal for engaging the enemy.

If you want more realism, tho, all space fleets would have tiny droid fighters covered in thrusters and turrets, and would fly and fire in any direction at incredible accelerations. And capital ships would ignore them except in large numbers. Missiles, torpedoes and bombs would more likely be carried by kamikaze droid bombers or be large, fast warheads launched by capital ships.

And orbital seiges would consist of constant bombardment of asteroids from the local system until the global particle shielding is overcome.

But this is Star Wars. We wants peoples in pointy space ships dogfighting in space like airplanes! Cause it's awesome!

Against the Empire or Rebels those tactics wouldn't work. The Asteroids would constantly be destroyed by the shields without affecting it because its constantly hyper cycling its shield projection. They work differently than the shields on cap ships and fighters. A civilization that can build shielding like this will also not have problems with asteroids... depending on the size, also depending on the output of shields and asteroid composition. if they are like the DS2 shields there will be no problems.

Droid fighters like you mentioned are too susceptible to ecm. Its a problem any remote operated craft in real life has to deal with. If its command signal is interfered with it becomes an expensive chunk of junk, or is very limited in what it can do remote wise IF it can even detect targets or defend objectives will being bombarded by ecm.

All this talk of realism... if SW was realistic, there wouldnt even be fighters, they simply don't hold enough fuel.

There is a job and palace for everything. They wouldn't be as long ranged as large craft for the most part.

I never said I wanted realism, I was just pointing out that SW doesn't follow real physics, therefore things that apply (e.g. a top speed), might not make sense in real life (even if you run out of fuel, inertia will cause you to keep accelerating)

The physics that wrote the cross section books made SW fit with the laws of physics as humans know them in 2004. By that time we have developed technology that is much closer to what we see in star wars. You know some scientists in Scotland were able to design a special piece of equipment that allowed them to emit photons / lasers and once they were produced they travel a lot less faster than 186282 miles per second. More amazing was that it wasn't emitted through any special medium and it still traveled at slower speed than what was expected.

I am still sure they are using hard-light lasers in SW, that technology as well as ner perfect light manipulation via artificial magnetism didn't exist via humans on earth when the crossection books were written.

Nope, nothing has been observed breaking the speed of light in a vacuum. There was an experiment that had an anomalous result but it was found to be due to instrument error. That, of course, does t make the news quite like 'light barrier broken!' does.

And about planetary shielding somehow being fundamentally different than shields on capital shields or any other shields: there's basically two types of shields in SW, particle shields that stop matter and ray shields that stop energy. We have no idea how they work, that just do. We do know that all shielded objects (so far observed) have one or (usually) both. The exhaust vent on DS1 was only Ray shielded because the exhaust it was venting was made of matter (duh), otherwise the vent couldn't do its job, so it lacked particle shields that would have prevented to vent from venting. The deign flaw was ha I got the vent be as wide as two meters, while the DSII, if it had been competed, would have increased the total number of vents while making them two small for warheads to penetrate.

At any rate, the reason why the DSII shield was so strong was because it was emited by generators powered on the surface of a much larger celestial body. If an asteroid the size of he Endor moon (basically dwarf planet size) was sent to collide with DSII it may have gotten through, but anything smaller, like a miles long capital ship traveling at relavistic speeds would have just gone splat. It's all about the power source and total energy. And I wouldn't mock Dr. Saxton, his service to the Empire was greatly illuminating and much needed after decades of hack writers and fan boys were allowed to soil SW with bad SF trappings without using common sense or embracing the overall fantasy element that is at the core of the saga.

Still, I'm not sure how Luke's X-wing had enough juice to make it to two different star systems presumedly without refueling, and even crashing in the swamp and sinking in muck(!), the only 'repairs' being Luke cleaning some snakes and stuff from the intakes. But then when a civilization has thousands or tens of thousands of years to perfect space travel tech, you can get a snub fighter that's cheap enough for a rogue government to purchase that requires minimal maintainance as well as super fuel efficient.

Particle shields are some form of magnetic feild, no idea how defector screens are meant to work though.

quote: it's called the X2 (referencing the TIE Avenger)

Not exactly. The X2 was the TIE Advanced that followed Vader's prototype and had the same bent wings but a smaller tail section (if they had a tail at all). These ships were seen in the original X-Wing game and did not seem to number more than about two full squadrons of 24 ships (or 32 ships, it's unknown). These and the the X3 seem to have led to the development of the TIE interceptor. (I speculate the X3 looked similar to the original Kenner version of Vader's TIE, which was a basic TIE cockpit with bent wings. Turn those wings 180 degrees and make them pointy and you got an interceptor). The Avenger was said to be the actual production model of the X1, and doesn't seem to have an alpha numeric designation beyond TIE/ad like all other Advanced project fighters, although the earliest version of the Avenger may have been designated X4. The Aggresor has also been rumored to have been the X5, but that is not backed up by Legends evidence.

The prototype of the TIE Defender was the X7, though the production model was TIE/D, oddly the same as the TIE droid designation.

And as far as I can tell the V1 (as seen in rebels) was the first entry into the TIE advanced program 5 years before Yavin.

I am still sure they are using hard-light lasers in SW, that technology as well as ner perfect light manipulation via artificial magnetism didn't exist via humans on earth when the crossection books were written.

Ok, anybody else wanna argue this one, because I've said it enough I think. FYI I can quote source sthat clearly state lasers aren't LASERS

Star wars lasers are clearly not lasers, you can see the bolts from a blaster so they are traveling way under light speed.

No way any Jedi could react in time to deflect something traveling at light speed.

Far more likely they are a charged plasma.

Laser blasters, turbo lazers and laser swords do not exhibit any laser-like behavior, and are actually ancient tech thousands of years old in the galaxy far far away. The laser moniker has likely stuck as an easy way to refer to this tech, similar to the solar reactors that power star ships (and the solar panels on ships like TIEs) likely has nothing to do with solar power or even fusion, but it's a term of convenience. For all we know most machines use exotic matter reactors or zero point energy collectors. Also since we earthlings are th audience these terms may be for our benifit to help us feel more comfortable with this stuff. Otherwise it's just really weird alien tech!

But Jedi could 'dodge' real lasers, because they are precogs, with the Force able to start moving them out of harms way even before a trigger is pulled or a button pressed. Sorry for the double post.

But Jedi could 'dodge' real lasers, because they are precogs, with the Force able to start moving them out of harms way even before a trigger is pulled or a button pressed. Sorry for the double post.

If that were true how did jango gun that jedi off the balcony, his blasts are way below lightspeed.

Same goes for the master gunned down when order 66 is enacted.

Organic reactions obviously play a part on some level or no jedi would ever go down to gun fire because they can easily leap dozens of feet out of the way.

Star wars lasers are clearly not lasers, you can see the bolts from a blaster so they are traveling way under light speed.

No way any Jedi could react in time to deflect something traveling at light speed.

Far more likely they are a charged plasma.

It's tibanna plasma. Glows and has mass, hence the recoil on the turbolaser lowers.

Cloud City survived entirely off exporting it.

So Vwings huh?

But Jedi could 'dodge' real lasers, because they are precogs, with the Force able to start moving them out of harms way even before a trigger is pulled or a button pressed. Sorry for the double post.

If that were true how did jango gun that jedi off the balcony, his blasts are way below lightspeed.

Same goes for the master gunned down when order 66 is enacted.

Organic reactions obviously play a part on some level or no jedi would ever go down to gun fire because they can easily leap dozens of feet out of the way.

There's also limits to how good individual Jedi are.

Yoda might be able to block a hundred blaster bolts, but that doesn't mean every Jedi is good enough to do that.