In light of the recent regionals almost win by a dual defender list, it's become clear that they are in fact too strong. I think their k turn needs to be errata'd to be red, it's just unstoppable.

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Actually my gaming experience tells me that Defenders would need 4 shields.

3/3/3/4 would just be right for the given costs and dial.

What was the list that ran two Defenders? I enjoy running two Defenders in casual games and would love to compare some of my lists with the one in question.

In light of the recent regionals almost win by a dual defender list, it's become clear that they are in fact too strong. I think their k turn needs to be errata'd to be red, it's just unstoppable.

So...they lost.

What was the list that ran two Defenders? I enjoy running two Defenders in casual games and would love to compare some of my lists with the one in question.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/179624-putting-my-money-where-my-mouth-is-on-tie-defenders-step-3-or-holy-crap-defenders-are-going-to-regionals/

What was the list that ran two Defenders? I enjoy running two Defenders in casual games and would love to compare some of my lists with the one in question.

It was Biophysical's list:

Rexler Brath - HLC, predator, ion pulse missile, hull upgrade

Colonel Vessery - HLC, lone wolf, stealth device

There is a battle report of it somewhere, but I don't know offhand. He went 7-1 on the day, only losing the finals vs. I think Kinetic Operator due to good flying and cool dice on the defender side. Never fought a list with more than 2 ships all day I think, which most likely helped since dual defenders will just tear up a 2 ship list.

What was the list that ran two Defenders? I enjoy running two Defenders in casual games and would love to compare some of my lists with the one in question.

It was Biophysical's list:

Rexler Brath - HLC, predator, ion pulse missile, hull upgrade

Colonel Vessery - HLC, lone wolf, stealth device

There is a battle report of it somewhere, but I don't know offhand. He went 7-1 on the day, only losing the finals vs. I think Kinetic Operator due to good flying and cool dice on the defender side. Never fought a list with more than 2 ships all day I think, which most likely helped since dual defenders will just tear up a 2 ship list.

Two ship lists are popular right now. I often don't run into more than 3 or 4 ships (other than 4xB + Z).

My favorite mod for the Defenders is EU. I've never tried SD. I'm not sure 4 green die is better than 3 (without something like autothrusters).

I've tried most of the oddball lists that made top 8's, just to see what they are capable of. The defender list was one of the least effective. I don't doubt that he had strong opponents, but that win is on the player, not those ships.

Not taking away from his run, but his matchups were fairly favorable. No BBBBZ or Rebel control lists. I don't think he ever faced a PWT with an EU either. But that's what happens sometimes. You get match ups that work for you.

I've tried most of the oddball lists that made top 8's, just to see what they are capable of. The defender list was one of the least effective. I don't doubt that he had strong opponents, but that win is on the player, not those ships.

ALL wins are on the player.... not the dice, ships, or anything else. Are some lists "more effective" than others? Yes. In tournament settings, we tend to try and take as much chance out of the game as possible. In the end though, the player sets the dial and takes the actions.

Of course, I figured this is what you meant. I just wanted to add to the choir.

In light of the recent regionals almost win by a dual defender list, it's become clear that they are in fact too strong. I think their k turn needs to be errata'd to be red, it's just unstoppable.

What? I truly hope I'm missing some sarcasm here. Crabbok did you make a second account?

In light of the recent regionals almost win by a dual defender list, it's become clear that they are in fact too strong. I think their k turn needs to be errata'd to be red, it's just unstoppable.

What? I truly hope I'm missing some sarcasm here. Crabbok did you make a second account?

Yes, I'm being facetious. I personally love defenders more than is healthy, but there were no other topics that really were interesting to me so I wondered how people would react to a thread claiming defenders were too strong, rather than the typical discussions.

sarcasm aside, Defenders are pretty decent as long as you're not up against boring as crap PWTs. You feel their bad cost:stat ratio pretty badly there when their maneuvers don't count for a **** thing.

They are strangely hilariously pro-efficient counters to their big brothers Aggressors, though. The unique combination of speed, white 4k, small base, and control cannon (flechette works quite well) lets them keep on an aggressor's ass (especially through a cluster of obstacles) while the big guys don't get much chance to bring arcs on them.

that's been my experience with 2 flechette defenders and classic SD + thruster Soonts, anyway

Not taking away from his run, but his matchups were fairly favorable. No BBBBZ or Rebel control lists. I don't think he ever faced a PWT with an EU either. But that's what happens sometimes. You get match ups that work for you.

I did face a souped up Han with a StressHog in support, not exactly full control, but it's a stress generator. I also faced a 4-ship Scum build (Kavil, 2 Pirates, and a light IG88-B) and a Howlrunner Swarm, so it wasn't all 2-ship lists (although it was mostly).

sarcasm aside, Defenders are pretty decent as long as you're not up against boring as crap PWTs. You feel their bad cost:stat ratio pretty badly there when their maneuvers don't count for a **** thing.

They are strangely hilariously pro-efficient counters to their big brothers Aggressors, though. The unique combination of speed, white 4k, small base, and control cannon (flechette works quite well) lets them keep on an aggressor's ass (especially through a cluster of obstacles) while the big guys don't get much chance to bring arcs on them.

that's been my experience with 2 flechette defenders and classic SD + thruster Soonts, anyway

I've always enjoyed the matchup of named defenders with hlc versus the fatties or brobots since you usually have better agility and punch harder, and since you turn around for free they can't blow past you and ruin your action economy as easily. You can just follow a fat turret and trade punches favorable usually. I've been meaning to try your 2 control delta with an ace style, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I think it might have a better chance versus rebel salad lists that the named hlc guys can't just punch into submission.

I've tried most of the oddball lists that made top 8's, just to see what they are capable of. The defender list was one of the least effective. I don't doubt that he had strong opponents, but that win is on the player, not those ships.

ALL wins are on the player.... not the dice, ships, or anything else. Are some lists "more effective" than others? Yes. In tournament settings, we tend to try and take as much chance out of the game as possible. In the end though, the player sets the dial and takes the actions.

Of course, I figured this is what you meant. I just wanted to add to the choir.

Right. But if you pick up SableGryphon's regional win list for 5-10 games it's REALLY good. It has tools for everything. To win or make top 8 with any list requires a lot of player skill, but winning with this list is like winning with a handicap. It's all on the player. No rebel captive over whisper. No Fel over B's. No Corran over turrets.

Yes, I'm being facetious. I personally love defenders more than is healthy, but there were no other topics that really were interesting to me so I wondered how people would react to a thread claiming defenders were too strong, rather than the typical discussions.

So you stated an opinion you yourself don't actually believe in, purely for the purpose of starting arguments.

That's literally, like, the definition of trolling.

Yes, I'm being facetious. I personally love defenders more than is healthy, but there were no other topics that really were interesting to me so I wondered how people would react to a thread claiming defenders were too strong, rather than the typical discussions.

So you stated an opinion you yourself don't actually believe in, purely for the purpose of starting arguments.

That's literally, like, the definition of trolling.

It is, yes.

Well alright then.

I've tried most of the oddball lists that made top 8's, just to see what they are capable of. The defender list was one of the least effective. I don't doubt that he had strong opponents, but that win is on the player, not those ships.

ALL wins are on the player.... not the dice, ships, or anything else. Are some lists "more effective" than others? Yes. In tournament settings, we tend to try and take as much chance out of the game as possible. In the end though, the player sets the dial and takes the actions.

Of course, I figured this is what you meant. I just wanted to add to the choir.

Right. But if you pick up SableGryphon's regional win list for 5-10 games it's REALLY good. It has tools for everything. To win or make top 8 with any list requires a lot of player skill, but winning with this list is like winning with a handicap. It's all on the player. No rebel captive over whisper. No Fel over B's. No Corran over turrets.

And these "handicapped" lists are often the most fun to fly. I've got a two Phantom and Defender list I've been wanting to fly in a competitive setting. I know it will go down in a ball of flame against some lists, but dang it will eat up a small or low agility list!

I'd say you can also have fun without handicapping yourself. I'm as far away from telling people they have to stick to meta lists as possible(took EYY to top 8 at my regional), but defenders... can't endorse their viability. If one of them had IG 88B's ability...maybe.

I'd say you can also have fun without handicapping yourself. I'm as far away from telling people they have to stick to meta lists as possible(took EYY to top 8 at my regional), but defenders... can't endorse their viability. If one of them had IG 88B's ability...maybe.

What if the tie engine gives them green banks so they can take PtL? Think that could be a good enough bump?

I asked Biophysical about that. He was not overly excited, but now I can't remember which thread it was in.

I don't think ptl will ever really be a thing on them, mostly because they lack the evade action. I'm not the first to say that, but biophysical also said that the white 4k is too valuable to make ptl any good.

I don't think ptl will ever really be a thing on them, mostly because they lack the evade action. I'm not the first to say that, but biophysical also said that the white 4k is too valuable to make ptl any good.

Hmm not having evade does make it worse, but I could see it being worth a try at least, it would allow a barrel roll and a modification token or target lock and focus in a turn, though I suppose predator does similar things without dampening the freedom of the 4k + action.

I do hope we see an ace pack for them at some point to diversify pilot options and maybe give an interesting title like a linked ion shot or something of the sort.