Hi there,

last game one of out players got the Barony of Letnev. After a few game rounds he asked me what this race is all about. I had to admit that i have no idea either. After the game wie stuck together and used to find the clou of the Barony. Sadly, we didn't find any. So that is my question. Are the abilities of the Letnev that useless? I don't think so. But where is the point? Maybe someone feels free to write a strategic guide for that race (i loved the one about the Saar).

Regards,

Patrick

I'm not good at writing full-out strategy guides, but the Barony is far from useless. They have the richest Home System of all the races (even more than the L1Z1X), so they can get off to a good start, production wise. Their ability for an extra ship above their fleet supply means that you need one less Fleet Supply counter to do what you need to do, and that extra CC can go elsewhere.

Even their combat abilities aren't awful, if you have a good amount of TGs. If you are playing with the expansion, and acquire their race technology, the ability becomes free, and they become even more fierce than the N'orr!

The key with them is similar to the L1Z1X - build up a good fleet and expand carefully, but after a few rounds, when you have a full production engine going, they can begin dominating the galaxy.

Thank you very much. I think the main problem of our player was that he wasn't able to gain that much trade goods to trigger his abilities effectivly.

The extra ship in each fleet is nearly the same as i. e. the Mentak have, but without the opportunity of using that fleet supply counter for something else. Compared to the Mentak, the other special abilities of Letnev seems to be rather weak. To be effective they need a lot of trade goods. I'm still not sure what i'm missing.

The Mentak have a very lackluster homesystem. The Letnev have an EXCELLENT homesystem. That production difference alone makes the Letnev formidable.

Also, if you get to the point where you are exhausting your CC supply, the Letnev have an advantage - they essentially have 17 CC's, with one just being "permanently attached" to Fleet Supply. Really, the Mentak and Letnev can do the same things - the Letnev can just as easily move the CC to another place. (You're never going to move ALL your Fleet Supply to other areas, though the Letnev COULD if they wanted and still have the ability to have a fleet, even a 1-ship fleet).

All-in-all, I would consider the Letnev one of the more powerful races. They can almost always outbuild the Mentak right out of the gate, and when they DO get TGs (Trade Strategy works well for this, to get them TG for themselves, and to be more forceful on getting decent TAs from others), their ability is very useful on occasion. Grab their racial tech, and as mentioned before, they become more powerful than even the N'orr!

Just to make it clear: What makes the Letnev home system the best in the game is not just the resources, but the production capacity. If you put a Space Dock on both planets, you have a capacity of 10! Only Hacan can top you there.

Huge capacity + lots of resources + extra fleet supply = formidable fleets quicker than any other race!

What's even better, the Letnev don't need Technology. Just grab XRD and you're done!

The Barony is a Juggernaut, and IMO very fun to play

Ok. I didn't notized that the fleet supply is better then Mentak as soon as it comes down to the maximum number of counters available.

I will keep this in mind when Letnev will be on the board next time.

Thank you a lot, guys.

Regards,

Patrick

The Letnevs racial bonus is essentially their home system it can have huge production capacity very early, giving them a large fighter/carrier fleet in the early mid game that is hard to compete with.

MagicOctopus hit the nail on the head - use the homesystem! 6-1 is a set of resource values unmatched by ANY other system in the game!

Buy Sarween and Enviro Compensators, and the Baron(ess) can be rolling out 2 Carriers + 10 fighters every time it's activated. The Trade Good ability is really expensive; I wouldn't recommend using it except in situations that are extremely vital (such as defending the homesystem or invading Mecatol), or if you have a *massive* fleet.

My one win was with the Barony. The big thing was to pump out fleets and send them out every turn. The major tech focus was on the yellow and XRD. After I had these I used resources to pump out more fleets. I managed to crush the 'Norr by creating a dock on a 3 resource planet right on the frontier. At the time it was a gutsy move because he had a massive fleet with a Warsun. 2 consecutive waves of ships burnt his and my fleets to nothing. On the 3rd wave I simply plopped my GFs down on his scorched planets with a minimal escort. This gave me the VPs needed to win.

The Barony really feel the best for me. I like the rapid tempo of expansion you get despite your fleets being a little substandard in quality. Just don't get bogged down in a tech race. It's not a strong point of this race.

still, in every equation, the Barony is sub-par in comparison to the othe races. Their Fleet Supply ability is actualy weaker than the Sols' "Gain an additional command counter during the status phase" Since the Barony technically must put that "counter" in their supply while Sol may put it anywhere they wish. Their ability to use tradegoods is incredibly risky, useless, and hardly worth the cost - except during major fleet battles.

I suppose this pretty much sums it up for their "Strategy" - quantity, not quality. Cruisers, mainly. since their homeworld allows to build many units simultaniously, their supply is somewhat higher and they have the ability to pump up units with TGs it spells it out rather clear. Get lots of low-quality ships early-out and beat the other guys.

Again, mostly a Fighters race. And still, somepletely unbalanced in comparison to other races (Naalu FTW).

Urliam said:

Absolutely no Cruisers!

As you say, a Fighters race.

I disagree about them being sub-par.

Although Enviro and Sarween are great technologies, I would not spend any resources on them. If you get Tech, go for it, but DON'T use the secondary, unless there are lots of tech related objectives. Two yellow technologies cost 12 (!) resources - with that you can get 2 Carriers full of GF and Fighters! If you buy Enviro and Sarween, it will take 2 rounds after purchase for them to be worth their cost. Letnev is strong on the first 3 rounds of play. After that, everyone else starts to catch up. If the Letnev spend their early game waiting and getting tech, they lose their advantage.

Really, Letnev wants Production as often as possible to maximize their awesome capacity, then Warfare to crush everyone around them.

Check out Beren's guide at www.ti3wiki.org/index.php

Silly forum has no edit function!

I just forgot to point out that the TG ability is just for that one game-winning battle where you absolutely need it. Even that is highly situational - most often you're better off just pumping out more ships (or CCs) with that money!

Urliam said:

Interesting quote. And one that I would completely disagree with.

The Letnev have the best home system in the game. 6 resources in the beginning of the game let's them build alot of ships quickly.

The only conclusion I can assume is that you haven't played the game very much.

Bill

]still' date=' in every equation, the Barony is sub-par in comparison to the othe races. Their Fleet Supply ability is actualy weaker than the Sols' "Gain an additional command counter during the status phase" Since the Barony technically must put that "counter" in their supply while Sol may put it anywhere they wish.[/quote']

Yes and no. Sure, the Barony's power is limited compared to Sol's, but there are also situations in which it is more advantageous - for instance, when a law passes to restrict Fleet Supply, when you run out of Command Counters (as I did in my last game as Winnu - squeaked out a win past Jol-Nar!), and when hit repeatedly with Naalu's Telepathic Mind Weapon.

And it's only reasonable that Letnev's racial powers be inferior to Sol's; Letnev has a *far* better homesystem!

I agree that the TG power is pretty useless, again, unless you manage to obtain good agreements through threats or Trade control. However, if Letnev employs a massive fleet strategy (often Fighter-centric), it can be quite good. 10 fighters on 2 Carriers, assuming no Cybernetics, are rolling 2.4 hits in the first round of combat. Tossing 2 TGs can boost that to 3.6 hits. Whether two TGs are worth 1.2 hits is dependent on what you're firing at, of course.

bnorton916 said:

Urliam said:

(OH HOW I HATE THIS FORUM SOFTWARE AND THE MOST IDIOTIC EDITOR I'VE EVER SEEN!!!!!!)

I miss old forum too.

And there were a lot of good articles that are missed now ((

New forum is idiotic.

What is going on with this software?

I was going to respond but the post is gone that I was going to respond to.

Anyway Letnev with two space docks has a production of 4+ 2 + 2+ 2 = 10

And it is possible to have that in the second round. If you get trade build a space dock.

You should use you that production to threaten in the early game for decent trade agreement from your neighbors.

Letnev are weaker is high resource games, better in low resource games(which I prefer).

Bill

Figured I would just mention the fact that you should hold those TGs (racial ability) for the the very first round of important battles, preferably ground as your space fleet should be able to handle just about anything.

sigmazero13 said:

I want to emphasize that the Barony's racial tech only takes effect during invasion combat. Which makes that tech weak as hell.

Obviously you haven't seen that tech used in combat then When your GFs are always fighting nearly as powerful as a Shock Troop all the time, it isn't something to sneeze at.

But it depends on how much invasion combat is going on in your game.

The problem with the letnev racial tech is that it isn't worth its cost.

The thing costs 12 to buy if you don't have the tech card. This means that it takes six rounds of invasion combat to break even on the investment, even if you purchase it using the tech strategy card thats a cost of 6 which is equivalent to three rounds of invasion combat. It just isn't worth it to buy, it is much better just to sit on a few trade goods and use them as needed.

Sure getting it for free from some houserule is nice but thats really outside the discussion.

Think of it this way, you could have spent those 12 res on a war sun or a couple of dreads and have enough bombardment to never worry about invaision combat again. Additioonally those ships would help you in the space battles where the game is really fought.

Losing invasion combats is always preferable to losing space battles.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that the Letnev are a bottom race, they're definitely a middle of the pack sort of race. Especially when you add the consideration of their starting fleet to their home system. My only point here, is that their racial tech is being misread by those above.

The big problem with racial techs isn't just their obscene resource cost, it's the lost opportunity cost of not getting a main game tech which is often more helpful in winning the game. As the Letnev tech currently reads I wouldn't buy it if cost nothing. Think, instead of a tech leading to fast dreadnaughts or war suns or assault cannons or Light wave deflectors I would be spending a round collecting a tech which will never help me win the game where all of those will.

I would suggest as an alternative text:

"The Barony of Letnev may pay for their racial bonus with one trade good instead of two and may do it on every round of combat."

But even that I wouldn't buy if it cost more than two res over the standard tech cost. There simply aren't enough battles in the game where that tech would matter where another one wouldn't. As someone above very clearly put, for every ten units in a fight the barony's tech increases their deadliness by one hit that round. Any way you cut it, it's a lot of resources to dump on just one or two hits if you actually have 20 units in combat.

I don't completely disagree with the above points - it's an expensive tech. I just don't think it's as useless as it's made to sound

The Fist of Ferrum said:

First off, I don't think buying it with the Tech Secondary is the way to go - if you are gonna buy it, do it with your "free" tech on the Primary, so you are only paying the 6.

Second, to get War Suns, the Letnev would have had to acquire 4 technologies first. Not that they wont' in many games, but it's not exactly a cheap route to go, either, especially if they don't NEED War Suns.

Third, Dreadnought Bombardment can be thwarted by a mere PDS, and are generally considered poor investments in general unless using the 2-dice rules.

Again, I'm not saying that the tech is costed appropriately, but there are some situations where it's cost of 6 does outweigh the other costs involved, especially if you get it early.

However, I think the Racial Techs in general benefit greatly from the house rule that you just get them for free when you acquire the VPs equal to their cost. Then it's a moot point - you just get it when you get 6 points.

I will say again, the cost of not taking a tech to take the that racial tech is not worth the gain.

But, arguing within the rules as written, assuming that I would blow my free tech on that tech, I'm spending six resources on it. I could have bought 6 ground forces and a carrier, even if I was landing a carrier worth of ground forces, that aquisition of that tech wouldn't be worth the benefit of the extra six ground forces, especially in the face of PDS. Meanwhile the barony could be putting that free tech toward something important, like war suns or fast carriers or fast dreads.