I'm new to this universe entirely, but I want to try to make a demon weapon either now or in the future.

Our gm is not telling me no, but he is making me justify how i got what i need to do everything. I'm not trying for a greater demon just anything really. I looked at the rituals and it didn't really help much it seems to be just make something up. Could someone explain the process please? and how hard it is to make one or even summon a demon.

Can you be more specific?

What type of daemon desired, weapon of interest, character alignment, power level of the champing, player resources....

I don't really have a specific one I'm trying to do. I'm new to this and they are only helping me so much get the hang of everything so I'm trying to experiment with the different mechanics. With this I was going to try either a plauge bearer or a nurgling( already present), a chainsword, nurgle. not sure how to judge my power. for resorces a ship crew(500). Like I said I don't plan on doing this right away if I can't.

First you must create (or obtain) the weapon.

To craft a weapon for the purpose of creating a daemon weapon requires a Tech-Use Test, modified by the weapon’s availability and Craftsmanship (see Table 5–20: Difficulty and Time by Availability)—rarer weapons are more difficult to craft in the first place.

Then you need to summon the Daemon itself:

Summoning a daemon for this purpose requires a ritual, as described on pages 228, in Chapter VI: Psychic Powers, which also provides a few sample summoning rituals. However, if the daemon becomes aware of a character’s intent to bind it into a weapon, it gains a +20 bonus on its Willpower Test to resist any Daemonic Mastery Tests the character attempts until it is successfully bound.

Then you need to bind the Daemon:

The ritual to bind a daemon into a weapon is described below, and follows the rules for rites and rituals described on pages 228, in Chapter VI: Psychic Powers.

Page 199 in the core rule book and onwards basically.

I suggest that you pick up the book or borrow it.

I'm new to this universe entirely, but I want to try to make a demon weapon either now or in the future.

Our gm is not telling me no, but he is making me justify how i got what i need to do everything. I'm not trying for a greater demon just anything really. I looked at the rituals and it didn't really help much it seems to be just make something up. Could someone explain the process please? and how hard it is to make one or even summon a demon.

Your GM is probably saying no as a safety point. Consider that this process is very difficult and unless the gods/GM are favouring you, it is unlikely that you will find a daemonic weapon waiting to be armed somewhere. Instead it will need to be carefully created or acquired somehow. You would need to have it fit for purpose as a basic or low quality item may fail to hold the power that a daemon would hold.

The ritual itself is also a terrifying process which is something like a -40(?) F.Lore Daemonology to summon and even more to try to control them and bind them, relying on modifiers to give you even a vague clue. If it fails, consider that the daemon will probably want to rip your face off for trying. It isn't just a case of saying "right, i'm doing a ritual here, what do I get?" Your GM will probably want you to come up with something special for the daemon, these things are big events which are players reaching into the warp itself to coax a denizen out and are accompanied by oodles of corruption and nasties even if it passes. You don't just get a daemon into this material realm though, this will be a specialist act and you need to get their attention. You want to bind a daemonette of Slaanesh into your finely crafted electro whip? You might need to find an area where the veil is weakened and set up an appropriate zone, sacrifice say six obscura filled and lusting virgins, killing each of them in a manner pleasing to the Prince of Pleasure (death by snu-snu or whatever), reveling in the hedonistic desires of the endeavor and gorging on the finesses of lust and extravagance of sweet meats and wine while reciting and perhaps carving the appropriate runes of summoning on the chest or back of each victim. Then, if the stars are right, the ritual is pleasing and the rolls are good, you might just get a daemons attention. Of course this is where it gets complicated as once summoned you then need to bind the thing. Some daemons might show up and not want to kill you immediately for summoning them in, then you have to make the decision to try and trap the new friend, that's where it gets ugly.

Daemon weapons can be very powerful and very high tier as well as very dangerous to control. Remember that while you wield it, you need to pass a Willpower check to master it. Fail, lose consciousness or your Willpower drops, the daemon will struggle for control again and when it gets control you have a risk of being its puppet with the usual expected consequences for all concerned. The rules for their creation can be complicated and their effects can be equally lethal which is why your GM is right to force you to explain how and where you got everything from. These are major events in a campaign and need to be carefully thought out.

Consider that for all of these there are some big consequences which can screw you over for trying such as Contempt of the Warp, Phenomenon/Perils, Daemonic retribution or failing the WP test...

God I love Black Crusade.

Even when you succeed, you will get screwed over at some point or even immediately.

I picked read through the books, and I think I will wait on this one... or just won't do it, that's a lot of really hard tests :/

From the pages of Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness:

Willingly you picked me up.

Your first mistake.

Willingly you drew me.

Your second mistake.

I do not allow my servants

to make three mistakes.

Foolish mortal!

So far, the Heretics in my party have tried to create daemon weapons twice. Both times it's gone wrong.

A single lesser daemon isn't too much of a threat to the party, which is the only reason no-one's been killed so far.

I suggest for starters try to make or get a runic weapon... It can be achieved my dealing with daemons or making some ritual to get one. (Tome of Blood). Tearing and Tainted are to qualities from the better ones and immunity to power-field crush is also handy...

You'd be better off (and much safer) trying to work towards a legacy weapon. The most powerful weapons are not so much one imbued with all manner of beast and enchantment but one where the weapon and wielder are in perfect sync, understanding the harmony of their own equipment and the nuances of how it all works.

...and then you can make it into a Daemon Weapon later just to stack and cause overkill on hit.

"Ok I hit with my master crafted, legacy, daemonic infused force sword, make five rolls to see which effect actually kills or maims." (This isn't actually a joke either)

And not only are legacy weapons better, their creation process actually follows some form of coherent logic. See, RAW, when making daemon weapons, the better you are at making a daemon do what you want, the worse your weapon actually becomes, which makes no real sense whatsoever. Get a legacy eviscerator instead. The only daemon weapons worth the creation process are ranged weaponry with small clip sizes or long reload times anyway, because infinite ammunition is actually a huge upgrade for them.

Legacy weapons also restrict (in theory) you to use other weapons. Unpredictable daemon weapons are easier to create (even several one) when you have the time and the know-how (with more experienced characters). Also enslave rival daemons to your service speaks for you...

in Nevertheless If the style and the character require use what suits best....

Which is why I suggested a melee legacy. You'll only ever need one melee weapon, usually, while ranged weaponry will remain unrestricted by the legacy, and thus always viable.

I believe the restrictions on ranged weaponry are along the lines of pistol/basic/heavy. So if you have a demon weapon autocannon you can still use a hand flamer or regular flamer, for example.

I believe the restrictions on ranged weaponry are along the lines of pistol/basic/heavy. So if you have a demon weapon autocannon you can still use a hand flamer or regular flamer, for example.

Or just combine the two. Daemonic Autocannon with underslug flamer! Never need to switch to another ranged weapon again, blast em from afar and then burn em up close.

Get yourself the daemon dakka-burna today!

The better would be a Daemonic Combi bolter as a Legacy weapon (Basic Choice). Compact to carry versatile to use don't need to reload. For The Mightiest. (TOB 59.)

Wow! Your GM's are generous. My GM has stipulated that if a character gets a legacy weapon, that will be THE ONLY weapon the character can use without losing the Legacy qualities. Doesn't really bother my psyker as all his/her ranged capabilities are from psyker powers. So he/she uses a Legacy neural whip (Legacy of Excess; Merciless Pattern; Vicious, Chastener)

Wow! Your GM's are generous. My GM has stipulated that if a character gets a legacy weapon, that will be THE ONLY weapon the character can use without losing the Legacy qualities. Doesn't really bother my psyker as all his/her ranged capabilities are from psyker powers. So he/she uses a Legacy neural whip (Legacy of Excess; Merciless Pattern; Vicious, Chastener)

Those GMs are merely following the rules and the spirit of the concept. There is nothing out of the ordinary about Kharn firing his pistol while he closes the distance to use Gorechild; he just always uses Gorechild when its an option.

A word of wisdom for anyone wishing to summon demons: Do not call something up that you cannot cast back down again. In layman's terms, do not summon something that you cannot actually kill under your own power.

Unless of course you don't actually care about surviving and just want to screw over everyone else around you, in which case go nuts and summon everything that you can; If you're going to be killed by demons, you might as well be killed by ALL the demons.

Lesser Daemons not really a match for even starter CSM characters or a bit advanced human disciples of Chaos. Between them and the greater ones are a messy part of the food chain. Heralds, somewhat daemon Troops (mutilators, warp talons) which can be safe to summon...

No, but they can still cause no end of trouble when you're trying to get said daemon to do something useful - generally the heretics aren't just calling up daemons for a random sparring match.

The inevitable psychic phenomena can disrupt whatever plans you have - we've had summoning a daemon Tech Scorn the area, rendering the power-armoured heretics nigh helpless, for example.

Plus fear tests.

Plus the mastery test will be on a daemon with a +20 if trying to bind it into a weapon, plus you'll be in its daemonic presence aura - that means there's a relative thirty point difference in its favour between what the stats say its willpower is and what you'll actually be testing on.

2nd half is a big if as I see. What if players gain lots of Degree of success on the binding or breaking and gets +30-60 to the mastery test, What if they call the shots from far away of the daemon (lik 10 meter) what if they got cultist to help and souls to offer.....? Don't get it wrong what you wrote and what i wrote still possibilities....

True.

Any daemonologist worth their salt should be able to stack the dice well in their favour - stuff like sacrifices, sacred numbers, ritual kits and an athame blade, etc, etc.

I'd be hesitant to allow "being far away" - if you're standing 10 metres away from the ritual circle, you're not doing it just directing someone else, so you're going to be testing on the I and Wp of whichever minion is actually stood at the circle's edge doing it.

The more time and effort you put into it, the 'safer' you can make it. But 'safer' should never be mistaken for 'safe'.

True.

Any daemonologist worth their salt should be able to stack the dice well in their favour - stuff like sacrifices, sacred numbers, ritual kits and an athame blade, etc, etc.

I'd be hesitant to allow "being far away" - if you're standing 10 metres away from the ritual circle, you're not doing it just directing someone else, so you're going to be testing on the I and Wp of whichever minion is actually stood at the circle's edge doing it.

The more time and effort you put into it, the 'safer' you can make it. But 'safer' should never be mistaken for 'safe'.

Anybody putting in the effort to get loads of bonuses should be able to benefit from them.

I'd agree with firmly limiting how far away you can be and still use your skills and characteristics. Or, at least, requiring a very good reasoning for why they're that far away, and it will still probably remove one source of bonuses on the tests.

Plus, be too far away, and the Daemon will think you're scared of it and weak - too scared and weak to give a worthwhile deal to, much less serve. Assuming of course the Daemon doesn't just decide that you being far away means that you have insulted it.

Agreed, "Safer" when dealing with Daemons is merely a marginally more acceptable degree of risk. Anybody who isn't willing to take risks and accept the consequences should not be summoning daemons.