Hey, I'm right there with you on this one, that was a really bad line that even I can't defend.

"From MY point of view, the JEDI are evil!"

/facepalm

For those that were questioning qui gon.... You were correct

Well... He has a green lightsaber! He cant be ALL bad!

Jedi is a religion.

Sith is a religion.

Applying logic to a religion inevitably fails.

Everyone knows that only red lightsaber wielders are bad.

I personally found some enjoyment in some of the "Legends" EU around that time frame. Especially the parts regarding Sifo-Dyas, Dooku, and to a lesser extent Jinn. Not all of the jedi were complacent in what the council and senate were doing. Sadly, they were in the minority, and with only a collection of small things that were "off," they were more outcasts than taken seriously. Heck, that's why Dooku left the Jedi order. And it wasn't until after Maul died unexpectedly that he was manipulated to the dark side by Sidious. *shrug. But it has been awhile since I've read any of that stuff, and if my recent replaying of old video games is anything to judge by, stories and plots that I thought were well told when I was younger are actually complete crap.

Yea, dialogue wasn't that great in SW movies. I just re-watched ESB recently and forgot how corny a lot of the dialogue was despite the great story itself.

From my recollection of the movies, the Jedi Order was a cross between the US Marshall service (elite law enforcement), SEALS (elite special forces), and the UN (diplomats) with a murky mandate to "keep the peace" in some manner. They were authorized to act as mediators in planetary disputes as well as a quasi law enforcement role.

Also, from what I could gather, nobody had ever seen a Sith during the lifetime of any of the members in the prequels. Heck, they did not even know that Dooku went Sith until he was confronted by Obi Wan (in a scene that made no sense. I thought he made a pretty logical and reasoned argument to fight against the Senate in which he did not lie at all. Then he just turns heel. It made no sense.). So they had zero experience in dealing with the Dark Side aside from some vague "light side good, dark side bad" belief. In short the Jedi Order had no idea what they were dealing with or how to combat it. They relied too much on visions that could be blocked instead of, I don't know, getting off their asses and investigating things. The Order had become complacent and arrogant in their status.

Yea, dialogue wasn't that great in SW movies. I just re-watched ESB recently and forgot how corny a lot of the dialogue was despite the great story itself.

You take that back fella! Your mamma didn't raise you right if you're using language like that.

From my recollection of the movies, the Jedi Order was a cross between the US Marshall service (elite law enforcement), SEALS (elite special forces), and the UN (diplomats) with a murky mandate to "keep the peace" in some manner. They were authorized to act as mediators in planetary disputes as well as a quasi law enforcement role.

Also, from what I could gather, nobody had ever seen a Sith during the lifetime of any of the members in the prequels. Heck, they did not even know that Dooku went Sith until he was confronted by Obi Wan (in a scene that made no sense. I thought he made a pretty logical and reasoned argument to fight against the Senate in which he did not lie at all. Then he just turns heel. It made no sense.). So they had zero experience in dealing with the Dark Side aside from some vague "light side good, dark side bad" belief. In short the Jedi Order had no idea what they were dealing with or how to combat it. They relied too much on visions that could be blocked instead of, I don't know, getting off their asses and investigating things. The Order had become complacent and arrogant in their status.

I would guess this is close to the case: UN Peacekeepers *** Delta Force/SEAL Team 6, add 19th Century US Marshals Service to flavor. Tasked with maintaining peace and order in the Old Republic.

Interestingly, it seems that outside of The Phantom Menace, Jedi are never seen acting as diplomats - and when they are, their more martial roles tend to work against them. More commonly, it seems that the Republic sends Senators to conduct diplomacy, not uncommonly with a pair of Jedi in tow (perhaps as much for good Senator/bad Jedi as for the protection of the Senator).

And I think it's unfair to characterize the Jedi Order as having not dealt recently with Dark Siders. Aura Sing and Asajj Ventress are both examples of Jedi pupils who fell to the Dark Side - to say nothing of other potential dark Jedi that the Order has had to deal with. We also have the Witches of Dathomir and other possible non-Sith Dark Side traditions. And the Jedi are aware of the Rule of Two, which means that it is either a rule that has always existed and the Jedi and Sith have sparred on and off in a thousand-year long shadow war (one which led the Jedi to believe that the Sith were operating on the fringe of the Republic - and not from the very center of the Republic's power), or at some point a Sith (presumably a Sith apprentice) was captured and/or turned and filled the Jedi in on what they knew.

So, to an extent they knew what they were dealing with. But they didn't comprehend the scope until it was too late. In a sense, the events leading up to Order 66 are a bit like the FBI and CIA investigating the aftermath of something like a "Manchurian candidate" scenario, where they don't even realize that the President is a plant until seven years into the presidency and Congress has granted them (the President) near-dictatorial powers.

ETA: Which gives me an idea for something I'd like to see but know will never happen:

Episode III remade as a multi-season HBO-quality Game of Thrones/House of Cards-esque political thriller in which the Jedi Order becomes aware that Palpatine is Darth Sidious by the end of Season 1, but instead of attempting to apprehend or kill the Chancellor, they work in secret to build their case and eventually expose Palpatine as a Sith lord, while Palpatine plods on with his plot unawares (until the end of Season 2, whereupon the Jedi and Sith engage in a shadow war against each other... while fighting the CIS. The war would be longer and bloodier than what we got with Episodes II and III plus The Clone Wars. And in the end, as the war against the CIS ends, the Jedi and Sith finally grow weary of circling each other and go straight for each other's jugular. The whole thing culminates in a sort of War in Heaven (except the devil wins this time) as Jedi turn against Jedi, Clone against Clone, resulting in the second Clone War (and thus Clone Wars). The galaxy is devastated, Palpatine promises to restore order with his new Empire, and the galaxy, now weary of the warring of Jedi and Sith, are all too happy to turn on the rebel Jedi and Clones.

Ultimately, the Jedi Order is all but extinguished and the Clone Army that proved so deadly but unreliable and practically destroyed itself is replaced with the Emperor's new Stormtrooper Corps which restores peace and order to the galaxy at blaster point and rebuilds upon the shattered infrastructure and ruins of the Old Republic.

But not all are pleased with the tyranny of the Empire....

I'm sure every fan boy of the last 16 years would love to rewrite the entire prequel trilogy to include the following:

...

Well, fortunately, the 'Clone Wars' CGI series exists, so you actually have all of that.

Sure, I wish the *on screen* stories worked as well, but it is what it is. I really don't have a problem with the IDEA of any of the prequel movies, the overall arc, character motivations and background...I get why a lot of folks don't like it, but it absolutely works.

What doesn't work is the acting (extremely mediocre), directing (sometimes good, sometimes dreadful), and dialog (OH GODS IT BURNS US, PRECIOUS!)

But many have said the same. George Lucas: Fantastic 'idea man'. Let him create the characters, their motivations, the setting and story, technology and background, but...for the love of the GODS don't let him touch a line of script (maybe the opening crawl - maybe), choose cast and crew, or sit behind the director's chair. Oh, also do let him handle merchandising. He's ace at that - hell, we wouldn't be playing the games we are discussing in these forums, if not for his direct actions to take control of licensing from the studios.

There's a reason people ask "which do you like best empire or Jedi" because those were not directed by Lucas, hell hopes only watchable because a decent editor put it together.

Yea, dialogue wasn't that great in SW movies. I just re-watched ESB recently and forgot how corny a lot of the dialogue was despite the great story itself.

You take that back fella! Your mamma didn't raise you right if you're using language like that.

IDK man, a lot of the dialogue was pretty sad.

It also had its shining moments.