Hey guys,

I've got a slightly odd group that just doesn't seem to (a) work together or (b)work within the setting of the game. The group consists of a guardsman who speaks to everyone like they are a piece of s*** (including his superiors), a cleric who recently joined the Red Redemption and is under the impression that anyone the disagrees with him should be shot at and a psyker that thinks it's funny to summon weird gribblies out of the warp.

As characters they have been working together long enough to know about each others strengths and weaknesses but they just don't work as a team. The guardsman wants to lead from the back as a sniper but he carries so many guns and ammo that any hit he takes should have him going up like a fireworks display. The cleric just wants to kill the pysker and the psyker doesn't seem to pay attention long enough to keep up with the plot.

Whenever something goes right they just accept it as being normal but they ***** and moan something chronic when things go wrong and they take a beating.

The group is in short, a bunch of power gaming noobs despite the fact that I've been GM-ing with this group for a few years and it's almost enough to make me jack it all in and say "Screw it, game over"

I'm at my wits end........HELP ME!

VarniusEisen,

In my opinion, if the description you've put here is true, then it is time for you to wrap up your storyline and call it quits. It would seem you're not the right GM for them, and they're not the right players for you.

Another option, if you are unwilling to head down that road, would be to switch gears, and play to their "strengths". Alter your storyline to run them radical...play them as hardcases, or even take their story down the path of the villain. Let them defect from their Inquisitor to a rival Radical Inquisitor. They appear to be on that path already.

First of all, find an adventure that ends the story arc for said group (succesffull).

If you want to give it a second try:

At the end, sit down with them and tell them the problems you do perceive. With the groups pc and the problems they seem to have with the story. Ask them that they should discuss with each other (not with you!) about new pc to build a new group. That they should actually work out how the pc will work together.

BUT:
If you think this is not going to work any better then this...give it an end.

Perhaps an idea for next time:

Have your players build characters that compliment each other...build a party instead of individual characters...

VarniusEisen said:

Wow. Ok, the next time the Guardsman talks back to his superiors, have him lashed 40 times as a punishment (I think that would equal to 1D10 permanent loss of Toughness and Willpower).

Let the cleric kill someone important for no good reason. Have his superiors punish him with a nice chemgeld.

Have the psyker shot.

Another idea is instead of trying to change your players and how they play, perhaps you should change how you approach the story and the setting. After all, there's tree of them and only one of you making you the minority and the more easily changed one ;-)

What you described sounds to me like the perfect set up to explore the dysfunction of the Imperium to it's fullest in a grimdark comedy of errors as the three stoogealytes bungle their way from investigation to investigation managing to actually solve the cases in spite of themselves through happenstance, dumb luck (read a bit of GM fiat), and the fact that the foes they go up against are even worse then they are. Wile the characters are absurd and dysfunctional, the heretics they face would be even more absurd and dysfunctional as would be any other organization they encounter. A heretek might have uncovered the secrets of the Astartes and how to duplicate the process. So, what dose he do? He begins implanting his own genetic structure into other "candidates" making a small army of over-weight insane techies with bad eye sight! Basicaly, this option will make the characters retarded one-eyed kings in the land of the brain-dead blind.

In other words, make the game world fit their characters instead of the other way around. Perhaps stop trying to play it so strait, embrace and amplify some of the setting more excessive aspects, and play it all for laughs -it will save your sanity, guaranteed. Of course, if that's definitly a road you can't or won't go down, then you might want to try a different game with this group or a different group with this game.

I use to have the same problem. You get all excited about this awesome role playing game. you think your players will love it and they will get into deep investigation and they will do every thing you want them to do.But they end up just shooting random **** and only care about the armoury. This is what happend to me. I told them I was taking a break with this group and I might come back to GM. They got upset and begged for me to come back, so I did, but I banned two players forever cuz they pissed me off. Now what I plant to do to get there minds set straight is have a NPC psyker follow them around and he will act odly as they did, then he will be killed because a psyker thats act weird is nothing to ignore.

Sorry I typed this really fast there might be some grammar issues.

Simple. Remind them they are living under the "cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable" (excerpt from Black Library intro). When my group started acting up in my first session, I had my Inquisitor nip in the bud. He showed them live footage of an Arco Flagellant and said in a nutshell, "Keep screwing around and this will be your fate." That put an end to it.

There are lots of great ideas here, and what works depends on you and you group.

If it was me, I'd pack it up and start looking for new players. But what if these are your best mates? Or there are no other players in your area? And you really want to GM Dark Heresy?

It sounds like they don't care about the setting, investigation, or mission based role-playing. They want to hack and slash and kick butt with no consequences.

I don' t think you can sustain a campaign with no consequences, but you could change the setting to let them kick but 23/6.9, and not have to play nice with NPCs. Space hulks, alien ruins, stone age feral worlds, worlds about to be bombarded by Battlefleet Calixis, ... These kind of settings have little to no social consequences and can involve plenty of butt kicking. You would lose the role playing, mystery and investigation part of the game, and replace them with a bit of treasure finding and exploration and lots and lots of combat. Hmm, reminds me of some other game.

And maybe, just maybe, the players may one day want to actually role play in the 40K universe and you could slowing bring in the other parts of the game you left out because your players were immature munchkins.

Turn them all into arco-flaggelants,mind-cleansed well behaved chuldren or decorative servitors imo..Probably not very helpfull,but they do sound a handfull.

Don't they seem to understand that they are all on the same side and just cos someone is a psyker doesn't mean he has to be purged in rightious flames?(and no way should you allow a cleric char to become a redemptionist,as far as they ecclesiarchy are concerned they are heretical under -hive scum)

Jericus creed said:

in 40k, it's usually your own side that will gack you, so they're the ones you have to keep your eyes on ;-) Besides that, "same side" or not, Redmeptionists HATE psykers (witches) and if the cleric is a redemptionist, then getting all buddy-buddy with the psyker would be way out of character, "same side" or not (tough a redmptionist is never on the side of a witch, it would be like any of us being on the same side as our fire wood ;-p ).

As for the Ecclesarchy's view of the Redemption, officially they don't like them, true. Unofficially, however, a lot of clerics have a special place in their hearts for the zealots as they do tings the clerics only wish they could. Some clerics of the Ecclesearchy take it further and actually join, hiding their identity behind the red hood and letting their extreme puritanical flag fly. Beyond that, the cleric career is not solely made up of priests of the Ministorium, but lay preachers of any stripe and color (including red) as well.

Alright, this group definitly sounds like it is not working for you. But, it can be fixed.

The overall point of this game is to have fun. Right? You were elected to be the GM, or you just took the role. You bust your butt to create atleast a decent campaign right off the top of your head, out of thin air, and they obviously sound like they don't want to play along. So here's what I would do.

1) Tell them how you feel about you busting yourself to make a campaign for them; only to have them screw around, thinking that they are as invincible as the Black Knight in Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail the whole time. Acting like a bunch of loonies. When meanwhile, you want to press forward, and have a serious, but fun, campaign.

2) Ask them what they are interested in doing in a campaign so that you can make them a story that will fit thier interests. Starting with what type of Ordo they wish to serve. I wouldnt start out with Malleous though. That one just seems to be more well suited for veteran players, who take the game seriously (in a RP fun way. Not like it's real life of coarse).

3) Allow another member to be GM for a while.

4) If the first three fail, find a new group.

Good luck man with all of that. While you are working on your group, I'll be searching for a whole new one. I just moved up to Northern Fort Worth, near Keller and Hurst. So if anyone is in the area, hit me up.

And to my buds down in Corpus, I sure do miss you all, and sorry for moving right as I got our campaign going... :-/

macd21 said:

When will people learn that you can't, hopefully, take your players out back and beat them? You'll either end up lying in a pool of your own blood or driving your players away, justifiably. You have to take them aside and explain the situation. Tell them about the flaws of their playing and how they can improve. If necessary reset everything to give them a new start. Finally if that doesn't work, make the game fit them. However, at the same time ease them into your planned playing style as it sounds like you're trying to make a bunch of power players into fantastic roleplayers overnight. Hopefully in time they'll wonder how they ever played any other way.

oh jesus, Im a noob Gm, I hope my group (so far an assasin and a guardsmen) won't be like that. Mainly cuz unlike you guys I don't have a huge population of people to choose from (I live in a rural county of Georgia, that should tell you why, not alot of people who are able to do something other than talk about tractors) I say punish em, exept for the cleric I may have not ran a game yet, but I have read enough to know that he is going perfectly with the the Red Redemption's creed.

Vulkan He''stan said:

three letters, lol

Swtich games to Paranioa.

You have a semi disfunctional group by having a Psyker & a Red Redemptionist together. That would NEVER work - they would blast each other to bits. One of 'em has to change.

As for the Guardsman mouthin' out to everyone, take a cue from the real army - lashes, (as beforementioned), a few weeks in the brig & latrine duty in the underhive, &/or getting stripped of rank would suffice. Just threaten the guy with this from an NPC superior & see what happens.

Aaaand, about that walking tank: Have him tell you exactly where his equipment is & have every shot that hits checked against where he told you his equipment is & see if it got hit. If you have the inclination, you could make a special chart for him.

Hope that helps!

L

VarniusEisen

the problem quite frankly is not your gamers. it is YOU as the GM. pls understand i say this with no malice. I find it hard to believe that you have played with these same individuals for years and did not know what their play styles were. You firmly should have expected this kind of behaviour. you as the GM have a vision of how the game should be. you aas the GM are their interaction with the universe as they know it. how it was you managed to allow them to cobble these kind of careers and attitudes is beyond me.

what can you do as GM is rather simple. reassert your control. your friends are taking advantage of your friendship and you being a sucker to some extent. maybe you're afraid that you might lose some friends. and a role playing game is never worth that. there are 3 ways you can go about reasserting control.

talk to your players as a group and individually. explain your vision. and explain your frustration. the truth is DH is a tough game for many to wrap their heads around. DnD and many others by comparison are pretty simple. see monster bash monster. it is a very complex game with its varying levels of intrigue, planets, varying technology levels and factions. and there are probably quite a few that lack the maturity to fully comprehend its context. as you can see from these boards even ppl playing for years STILL have a large amount of questions. no one here can pretend to know all about DH and 40K.

in my mind a seasoned Inquisitor would not put up with such unprofessionalism..quirks, wacky traits, idiosyncracies whatever you want to call them yes..and even a mouthy Guardsman sure..but they had better be **** useful OTHER than shooting off their mouths. as has been suggested by some, use the power of the Inquisitor but not for punishment, let them free from service. explain their unprofessionalism and incompetence. and open the shuttle door and leave them on some backwater planet. or if you use the far away Inquisitor approach communicate your displeasure and cut off all access and funds.

the other is a combination of both of the above including allowing the game to carry on and let them be fools to their own folly. why is the sniper carrying so many guns? bring in the rules for weight allowance. he gets hit with a shot. do as you had said. LIGHT HIM UP. a power cell ignites and you take x damage losing blood and/or a limb. the Redemptionist hates everything and everyone. role play it up. let the Insanity points start stacking up. he's role playing it. get some game mechanics in there. the psykers incompetence. allow him to captured by a rival Inquisitor or some faction and sent to the Black Ships for rendering unto the Emperor for sustenance (surely the Black Ship assessors get it wrong sometime..lol).

there are many things you can do but you must be prepared to stand up to them and stand up for yourself.

I had a similar group in cyberpunk, and here is what I can suggest worked for me. Power gamers, love power but hate responsibility, in short make that work against them. get one new player (if you can find somone you can trust )with the role of red herring, and of course do not tell the players till it's too late. The players are given an especially important mission (I.E. retrieve an important relic from a massive chaos cult enclave, explain that they will undergo genomic treatments before the mission (similar to those given to space marines) and feel free to upgrade their characters a bit (+5 WS/BS, a new Psi discipline etc) The new player will get no such benefit, in fact all he has going for him is he is a noble, of impeachable bloodline, (the kind of guy the party would be killed for axing if they don't like) He is now their leader and master, and has a small bio-monitor installed in his arm. during the augmentations small explosive packets were affixed to the bases of the PC's skulls (as they have proven to be effective albeit far to unorthodox to trust) should the new party leader die, the party dies with him, now he does not have to be a jerk, but an armorless PC who is willing to shoot his mouth off at a random thug he feels is beneath him, or a or jumping in to dangerous situations foolishly, will have the party forced to work together to save his ass to save their own. make them really work as a team.

ghost81 said:

This is downright brilliant. Ghost81 you are a master of your craft

*Bows*

-Ira-

Ghost 81

u cunnin GIT u. krafty and utterly diabolical....this is a keeper.

cheers

the liegekiller said:

And a responsible and decent player should at the very least ask some questions about that vision or do some sort of reserach into the gameworld himself instead of steamrolling across the GM's vision and acting like a douchebag.

The door swings both ways you know, and it is a little unfair to hold the GM responsible everytime a certain campaign gets out of hand in the way that the OP describes.

Some players REALLY NEED to get it through their thick skulls that being a player also comes with a tag of responsibility and a genuine interest in cooperating with the GM in order to create an enjoyable experience for everyone, and by "everyone" it INCLUDES the GM.

So if you are a player and not a game master (this goes for everyone, not just liegekiller), take this to heart and try to get a bit more involved and try to learn a little of how to act BEFORE you act in-character. When the GM is trying to come up with cool scenarios he or she is often swamped already with tions of details to keep tabs on. Deciding to act in a game disrupting behaviour and just blaming it on "roleplaying" is something that most GM's could do without.

Always remember: it isn't you and your characters versus the GM. It is you, your characters and the GM TOGETHER!

Varnias Tybalt

i won't dispute what you have said about the players involved, the poster has far more patience than i do with that kind of foolishness. the players are like errant children...they will do whatever they can get away with. the buck stops with the GM ultimately. you are correct when you say as GM u have all manners of things to do..pregame, game and postgame...and shouldn't need to babysit, threaten, cajole, and appease they're players. as far as his gaming sessions are concerned, he appears to be the more mature and the more serious about the material...the poster is the GM and final arbiter of what happens on his turf.

my reply was in no way condoning the behaviour of the players and a full condemnation of the GM, but the easy and one sided route is to blame the players. as you yourself pointed out, the door swings both ways. calling the players out and shoutin the odds with ppl that can't hear you and may not read your posts, in my mind is utterly pointless. the poster asked for help. i gave him my take and gave him the advice i deemed worthwhile. he can do MORE about his response to the players and his actions than otherwise. no matter what one says about the players...its the GMs game.

Assuming the guardsman has low Willpower (which is the default state for Guardsmen) and no access to Frenzon (easily accomplished), I'd just make some encounters that require all three to work together.

Which is really quite simple: cultists with Mental Fortress so the Psyker will die if he tries to fry them with his powers, and their summoned Daemons, who aren't too imposing except for Fear (2 or 3), Unnatural Toughess and Daemonic, stacking their TB so high that only the Psyker can touch them. Meanwhile, the Guard will be huddling in the corner crying from failed Fear checks unless the Psyker or Priest use their various abilities to help inspire him.

A single encounter with a Daemon capable of forcing a roll on the Shock table should provide fodder for the other to put the Guardsman down a notch or two when he gives them ****. Assuming they don't leave him to be eaten. One backlash from Mental Fortress will make the Psyker pay attention from then on in or die. The Priest will learn to shape up if he realizes that there are things the Psyker can kill that he can't even hurt (Holy weapons aren't given to scrubs who can't follow orders).

ghost81 said:

Boo Yaahhh! That's what I'm looking for in GM control! However, in my newbie-GM case, I don't want to completely alienate my players, since my choices of players are limited. And - they are full-tilt "power-gamers", "give us our loot" mercenaries/thugs. So, if I want to keep both my players and myself entertained, I will have to come up with a practical medium. I am open to any practical ideas.

Cheers.