Have you tried this list against stress dealers such as RAC with RC, stressbot, tacticians? Seems that this could be a serious problem with only straight greens.

I see that you got lucky and didn't have to deal with any of these for this tournament.

I faced a Fat Han/Stresshog (BTL-A4 w/ Ion Cannon and R3-A2) and won in round 4. My Defender's general outlook on stress is "we'd rather not be stressed". It doesn't really go further than that. They can both get re-rolls to attacks while carrying a stack of tokens, and can both still turn around with the white K-turn. Having an action is better, of course, but stress isn't crippling. These guys are single-action ships, with action-less attacks that each do more average damage than Soontir Fel with a Focus.

I think not having focus for defense would be the biggest drawback of stress. I guess even then you have 3h and 3s behind 3-4 green dice.

I'll have to try this list but I'm worried that it will get ripped apart by RAC/Fel that's becoming very popular.

It's awesome that you tried something different and even more so that you did so well. I bought the defender as my first ship after the core because I like it so much but never run it at tournament. You've inspired me to give it a try.

When I tested against RAC/Fel with RC, I would always go after RAC first because he's tough to kill with only one. Assuming Rex dies first, Vessery really can fight Fel one on one pretty well. AGI 3 with Lone Wolf is tough to get through, especially when Fel will really need tokens for defense or arc dodging.

It's awesome to read your posts for months worth of discussion and practice and then see you go pull this off. I applaud your efforts and take inspiration in it to play non-standard lists. Well done, sir, well done.

Fantastic report; I wish I had seen your list in action. I was at KC as well but didn't get to see you play. The Defender is a fan favorite of mine, but I have yet to make it work (to my satisfaction) on the table. I will have to give Double D a try and see if I can have as much fun with it as you did.

Kudos on a great list and a great day of flying!

Congrats on doing so well at a Regionals!

Nice to read about someone doing well with the Defender. And its a list that I would love to try out myself

If you ever want a 'sparring partner' on Vassal to get games in against others, feel free to PM me!

****, now I want to start flying Defenders again. I already did my time!

How much use do you think you'd have gotten out of a second ion pulse missile, vs. Brath's hull upgrade? The thought of dragging RAC over rocks for two rounds sounds amazing.

Ya can't throw an APT in my meta without hitting a decimator and/or 4 Bs; do you think that the list has the legs to grind through all those hitpoints?

Thanks for the writeup.

Game 6 vs Brant

Dash Rendar, HLC, Outrider, Navigator, VI

Corran Horn, PTL, FCS, Engine, R2D2

We were the last two undefeated players of the day. We ended up pretty much just jousting. I got an early shot on Dash for a couple damage, I think, and Vessery took some in return, maybe. The details are getting foggy. I set up Vessery and Rex with overlapping fields of fire for where I thought Dash would go. He boosted with Corran, however, into Range 1 of Vessery, then Focused. He was going for the kill on Vessery, clearly, but is also in arc of both of my Defenders. He does some damage to Vessery with both of his shots and has only a Focus defending himself, so I decide to unload. I have 2 HLCs with Focus tokens, one with re-rolls. I don’t know the odds of them doing 5 damage to Corran, but my gut says it’s somewhere around 35-40%. I decide to go for it and figure if I can wipe Corran here, it’s game over, and if not, I’m in a pretty decent position to K-turn behind him with Rex next turn to finish the job. I don’t have to K-turn. Corran goes down to the 2 HLCs. Vessery dies next turn to Dash, but Rexler chases down Dash without much trouble. The game is over in 15 minutes or so. 153-47.

Per www.xwingdice.com (by Patrick Wilcox), I should have suffered roughly 3.5 damage on two focused up 4 dice attack with Rex having the predator reroll and spending the focus on defense for one attack.

I don't remember who had initiative at this point but I could have either blocked the k turn with corran via 1 forward and barrel roll back or hit the gas and turtled up with evade focus while regaining a shield with the green maneuver.

Immaterial at this point as my green dice utterly betrayed me. One more evade or a focus and it's a different game.

Game 6 vs Brant

Dash Rendar, HLC, Outrider, Navigator, VI

Corran Horn, PTL, FCS, Engine, R2D2

We were the last two undefeated players of the day. We ended up pretty much just jousting. I got an early shot on Dash for a couple damage, I think, and Vessery took some in return, maybe. The details are getting foggy. I set up Vessery and Rex with overlapping fields of fire for where I thought Dash would go. He boosted with Corran, however, into Range 1 of Vessery, then Focused. He was going for the kill on Vessery, clearly, but is also in arc of both of my Defenders. He does some damage to Vessery with both of his shots and has only a Focus defending himself, so I decide to unload. I have 2 HLCs with Focus tokens, one with re-rolls. I don’t know the odds of them doing 5 damage to Corran, but my gut says it’s somewhere around 35-40%. I decide to go for it and figure if I can wipe Corran here, it’s game over, and if not, I’m in a pretty decent position to K-turn behind him with Rex next turn to finish the job. I don’t have to K-turn. Corran goes down to the 2 HLCs. Vessery dies next turn to Dash, but Rexler chases down Dash without much trouble. The game is over in 15 minutes or so. 153-47.

Per www.xwingdice.com (by Patrick Wilcox), I should have suffered roughly 3.5 damage on two focused up 4 dice attack with Rex having the predator reroll and spending the focus on defense for one attack.

I don't remember who had initiative at this point but I could have either blocked the k turn with corran via 1 forward and barrel roll back or hit the gas and turtled up with evade focus while regaining a shield with the green maneuver.

Immaterial at this point as my green dice utterly betrayed me. One more evade or a focus and it's a different game.

Definitely would have made things more fun.

Sounds excellent, it's made me think about experimenting more with smaller squads as well to see what can be achieved. Well done!

I can't wait to see double Defenders overtake the meta once people start copying your list.

Edit: Did you use Rexlar's ability? If so, what were some highlights?

I can't wait to see double Defenders overtake the meta once people start copying your list.

Edit: Did you use Rexlar's ability? If so, what were some highlights?

In the top 8, I took a Damaged Cockpit crit to knock Rexler down to PS0, the next turn Rex punched two cards of damage through 3P0/Evade, and used his focus to flip them to Injured Pilot and Damaged Sensor Array. That about halved the incoming damage on Rexler and helped him survive to finish Chewie off.

I seriously doubt I would drop either Stealth Device or Hull Upgrade for a few extra greens. HLC Defenders already skew so offensive, that they need some points spent defensively. I might consider making a change for white hard turns, as that opens up new every-turn options. I might change this if the new Advanced Homing Missile does something totally amazing for how I play, because I could save points by downgrading to the new TIE mod. I don't recall if Han/stresshog/prototype was from OKC, but he was named Ian, so it seems pretty likely if Ian from OKC also played that list. Of all my opponents, he probably has the most call to complain about dice. Rexler Brath sustained a lot of fire. Most of the incoming fire was unmodified 2 and 3 dice attacks against occasionally modified 3 green dice, which is tough to get through, but he put an awful lot of shots into Rexler with the stresshog. I would have expected more to get through.

I wonder if you'd end up changing your mind on this if you had to face more stress mechanics, especially Rebel Captive. I've tried out a Rex/Kath build but had a tough time against RAC with captive as it is really tough with the defender dial, especially if the RAC has EU (something else I noted wasn't on the higher PS big ships you faced). Other than that, as I mentioned elsewhere I think the defender has a lot of potential in this meta and a slight tweak in my own list may make it more viable, too.

Hey Bio

Firstly just want to say I haven't read your report but it's ranked highly on the priorities list! Just wanted to say I'm also a huge fan of Defenders and have been trying to make them work although in a much less competitive setting than yourself. Sounds like you've gained some success and much insight into flying them however. Looking forward to more!

Way to go Bio. You are a braver man than I. I was considering a Brath/Soontir combo with Dark Curse thrown in, but I don't think I'm going to run it in my upcoming regional.

One problem I always have with the Defender is facing Phantoms or Soontir. They can just run circles around you and unless you can pin them down with an Ion, its an uphill battle. Also you can't forget their wingman good ole Chirpy. Luckily you didn't draw that matchup.

It's awesome to read your posts for months worth of discussion and practice and then see you go pull this off. I applaud your efforts and take inspiration in it to play non-standard lists. Well done, sir, well done.

Thanks for the kind words. I recommend to anyone to try what I did and take your weird list and play against yourself with some meta favorites on Vassal. It's quick, you can try out a lot of possible scenarios really fast, and you get a real intuitive sense of how to approach different opponents.

Congrats on doing so well at a Regionals!

Nice to read about someone doing well with the Defender. And its a list that I would love to try out myself

If you ever want a 'sparring partner' on Vassal to get games in against others, feel free to PM me!

I'll try to do that some time. I tried doing the Vassal thing against live players a handful of times, but everytime I managed to talk to someone in the waiting room, they didn't have time for a noob to learn the Vassal ropes. Maybe bad luck.

****, now I want to start flying Defenders again. I already did my time!

How much use do you think you'd have gotten out of a second ion pulse missile, vs. Brath's hull upgrade? The thought of dragging RAC over rocks for two rounds sounds amazing.

Ya can't throw an APT in my meta without hitting a decimator and/or 4 Bs; do you think that the list has the legs to grind through all those hitpoints?

Thanks for the writeup.

I tested against BBBBZ a lot, and I would always try and get an engagement near asteroids where they couldn't really get formed up very well. If I could do that, I usually had a good chance. A lot of times, one of my Defenders would end up running for its life, while another pursued the Bs. If I could get it down to 2Bs vs 1 Defender, I was usually in good shape.

I seriously doubt I would drop either Stealth Device or Hull Upgrade for a few extra greens. HLC Defenders already skew so offensive, that they need some points spent defensively. I might consider making a change for white hard turns, as that opens up new every-turn options. I might change this if the new Advanced Homing Missile does something totally amazing for how I play, because I could save points by downgrading to the new TIE mod. I don't recall if Han/stresshog/prototype was from OKC, but he was named Ian, so it seems pretty likely if Ian from OKC also played that list. Of all my opponents, he probably has the most call to complain about dice. Rexler Brath sustained a lot of fire. Most of the incoming fire was unmodified 2 and 3 dice attacks against occasionally modified 3 green dice, which is tough to get through, but he put an awful lot of shots into Rexler with the stresshog. I would have expected more to get through.

I wonder if you'd end up changing your mind on this if you had to face more stress mechanics, especially Rebel Captive. I've tried out a Rex/Kath build but had a tough time against RAC with captive as it is really tough with the defender dial, especially if the RAC has EU (something else I noted wasn't on the higher PS big ships you faced). Other than that, as I mentioned elsewhere I think the defender has a lot of potential in this meta and a slight tweak in my own list may make it more viable, too.

Possible, but I did test against Chiraneau-Fel a ton and had plans in place to deal with it. You're right that I didn't face EU on any of the pancakes I played against, although I did on the many Corran's I fought. The Ion Pulse Missile is a pretty great tool for EU-Pancakes. You can chip away for a couple of turns with a single Defender that happens to have the beast in arc, but when you get the IPM off it lets you get 1 sometimes 2 rounds of concentrated fire. That should be all she wrote once that happens.

Way to go Bio. You are a braver man than I. I was considering a Brath/Soontir combo with Dark Curse thrown in, but I don't think I'm going to run it in my upcoming regional.

One problem I always have with the Defender is facing Phantoms or Soontir. They can just run circles around you and unless you can pin them down with an Ion, its an uphill battle. Also you can't forget their wingman good ole Chirpy. Luckily you didn't draw that matchup.

I don't know if I can't play Soontir right in practice games, or what, but I found that the K-turn really mitigated a lot of his maneuverability advantage. I was only able to play him once against a person, and it ended up 1 on 1 against Lone Wolf Vessery with 4 hp left. Soontir had a really hard time punching through those Greens, and if he pulled in close for a 4 dice attack, a K-turn almost always would put me in a really good position the following round.

I played two games with vessery and 2x double tactician shuttles. Both games I flew poorly. Against super Dash and Corran I was able to eventually double stress and kill dash, but bad play in the early game left my Ves on one hull vs dash with an untouched shuttle. In the second game against Soontir and RAC I was able to drop Soontir but played way to aggressively with Ves taking 3 hits and a lose pilot skill crit when I tried to ion missile RAC.

Overall the defender felt really powerful and I flew it very suboptimal. The same goes for the shuttles. I call the build Stressery. Not being able to take advantage of lone wolf at all and way to aggressive shuttle moves cost me the games. My flying turned two interesting matches from winnable into losses.

Thanks for the inspiration Biophysical!

This thread warms my heart well done on your victories your showing the defender defies mathswing.

The defender isn't the easiest fighter to learn but once mastered there's nothing it can't defeat.

Finally read the reports and it's pure awesome to know someone is out their doing exactly what I want to do. I tried and failed to fly this list against my wife (her 4-5th game) and she smashed me. After my initial joust I tend to crumple. Great effort and thanks for sharing and looking forward to continuing to follow your journey.

Did you use your Ion Pulse Missiles every game?

Finally read the reports and it's pure awesome to know someone is out their doing exactly what I want to do. I tried and failed to fly this list against my wife (her 4-5th game) and she smashed me. After my initial joust I tend to crumple. Great effort and thanks for sharing and looking forward to continuing to follow your journey.

Did you use your Ion Pulse Missiles every game?

I only fired them once, but I know they came into play on at least one other game, and maybe more, because their presence restricted opponent's good moves.

Congrats on doing so well at a Regionals!

Nice to read about someone doing well with the Defender. And its a list that I would love to try out myself

If you ever want a 'sparring partner' on Vassal to get games in against others, feel free to PM me!

I'll try to do that some time. I tried doing the Vassal thing against live players a handful of times, but everytime I managed to talk to someone in the waiting room, they didn't have time for a noob to learn the Vassal ropes. Maybe bad luck.

Well I'm pretty laid back when it comes to VASSAL (also relatively new, having only been playing on it for a couple months now). I'm sure we could manage

My kids are usually in school/daycare now, so daytimes (EST for me) are usually pretty good and evenings (after kids are in bed).

Way to go Bio. You are a braver man than I. I was considering a Brath/Soontir combo with Dark Curse thrown in, but I don't think I'm going to run it in my upcoming regional.

One problem I always have with the Defender is facing Phantoms or Soontir. They can just run circles around you and unless you can pin them down with an Ion, its an uphill battle. Also you can't forget their wingman good ole Chirpy. Luckily you didn't draw that matchup.

I don't know if I can't play Soontir right in practice games, or what, but I found that the K-turn really mitigated a lot of his maneuverability advantage. I was only able to play him once against a person, and it ended up 1 on 1 against Lone Wolf Vessery with 4 hp left. Soontir had a really hard time punching through those Greens, and if he pulled in close for a 4 dice attack, a K-turn almost always would put me in a really good position the following round.

True. I could see Soontir having a hard time punching through that combo. Unfortunately, left 1 on 1 with Vessery you are behind in points. Phantoms are more of a problem in my experience. They throw enough die that they don't care about 3 agility and you have to VI Brath to get past PS 9.

Way to go Bio. You are a braver man than I. I was considering a Brath/Soontir combo with Dark Curse thrown in, but I don't think I'm going to run it in my upcoming regional.

One problem I always have with the Defender is facing Phantoms or Soontir. They can just run circles around you and unless you can pin them down with an Ion, its an uphill battle. Also you can't forget their wingman good ole Chirpy. Luckily you didn't draw that matchup.

I don't know if I can't play Soontir right in practice games, or what, but I found that the K-turn really mitigated a lot of his maneuverability advantage. I was only able to play him once against a person, and it ended up 1 on 1 against Lone Wolf Vessery with 4 hp left. Soontir had a really hard time punching through those Greens, and if he pulled in close for a 4 dice attack, a K-turn almost always would put me in a really good position the following round.

True. I could see Soontir having a hard time punching through that combo. Unfortunately, left 1 on 1 with Vessery you are behind in points. Phantoms are more of a problem in my experience. They throw enough die that they don't care about 3 agility and you have to VI Brath to get past PS 9.

Vessery is worth more than Soontir, so you can play a little defensively if it comes to that matchup. Phantoms are a different story, because they hit way harder. I had contingency plans against them, but never ran into one.

Duh... brain fart

Phantoms have see a large dip... They are still out there though, lurking.

Very glad to see Defenders making some headway! I have loved them since they first arrived and think the uniques have stellar abilities to build around. Nice job man!