We are on cooper, and I should have enough XP for a monster upgrade to silver after the next dungeon, however given that I have 33 and the heros 48 so far after then next dungeon there is a fair change that the hero will be on about 70/80 and I will be on about 40/60.

So my query is if I upgrade 1 class to silver there is a fair chance we will be moving to silver campain shortly afterward. and I assume that the class I upgraded to silver stay silver when we enter the silver campain, and dont get an automatic upgrade to gold, because they have already been upgraded by 1 level.

Is it worth spending 30XP on a silver monster upgrade that I will only get 1 or 2 dungeons out of, or better to buy treachery, which will get me cards for every encounter/dungeon.

Erm, if i understood everything in the manual correctly only your upgrade-limit moves with the Campaign levels.

Meaning in bronze level you may only have one single monster category in silver.

And with reaching silver level you may upgrade all your monsterclasses to silver, and one to gold level.

You do not gain an automatical monster upgrade for any monster classes, they stay at their level until you pay for the upgrade. [With the experience and the 1 upgrade per week limit]

So concluding: go silver!

Though if they are getting ready to slaugther yoru leutenant, go Treachery, .. oh.. if you think a new Lt. gives you a board advantage, go Lt. Or go get some other upgrade which are pressingly needed. Siege engines for example.

That one upgrade per week limit really seems to get the OL, especially in fast paced campaigns. [Havent finished one yet. So take all my conclusions with caution}

You seem to be supposing all your monsters will upgrade to silver as soon as the silver age starts. Unfortunately for you, this is not so.

If you don't upgrade your monsters yourself, they will stay copper for the whole campaign.

As you see, the OL really needs a LOT of Conquest Points... He needs a lot more than the heroes to stay even. The monster upgrades seem too expensive; you could cut 10 points off of each of them, making them 15/20/20 instead of 25/30/30, and the OL would still not have an easy time if the heroes are experienced.

I'll actually suggest that as an additional "rule for seasoned heroes" for our next campaign. Our OL will be delighted.

Holy Crap, so I have to pay 30+30+25+25+30+30=170 XP to upgrade my monsters to gold.

Wow the OL is so screwed in this game, I have to wonder why anyone would want to play the OL, short straw anyone! .

I loved playing vanilla descent single quests either as OL or Hero, but have to say that playing RTL is fast becoming a no fun game (for the OL anyway), I seem to spend half the game with nothing to do. No monsters cos no LOS to spawn, and the dungeons are tiny, or no threat to flip the reinforce counter, when I do get to spawn the monsters are so week the Hero's just blast them to death.

Plus the Hero's can bump to town anytime and basically heal for free given how much gold there is in the game.

mordak5 said:

Yes it is a lot of CT to upgrade everything, and yes the OL has a harder time in RtL. The system was originally designed for the heroes to reset after each dungeon, and the campaign was only really added because of overwhelming fan demand. Unfortunately, without completely rebuilding the rules (and likely changing a lot of the components) the heroes gain an advantage in getting to hold on to items they would originally have lost after a short period of time (and which were designed on the assumption they wouldn't be around forever.)

This is not to say the OL's position in RtL is hopeless, mind you. You want to get that first silver monster upgrade ASAP, because the added power of the monsters will help you earn more CTs faster. If the campaign in about to go silver then you've lost a bit of time, but you should definitely get them upgraded soon. I would even suggest getting whichever monster category you upgrade up to gold as soon as you can after the campaign hits silver level. Then focus on upgrading the rest of the categories to silver. Unless your chosen plot requires a lot of running around on your part, I wouldn't worry about getting more LTs. Avatar upgrades can probably wait until the campaign hits gold level.

In my experience, if you pick a plot that doesn't require your LTs to run around (like the obsidian chains one) then you really don't need to buy too many LTs or any of the generic upgrades that help them on the overland map (ie: siege engines) unless you want to go for a pillaging victory and burn as many cities as you can (not necessarily a bad idea, mind you.) My point is, as OL you need to decide on a strategy early and know which upgrades you need and which you don't for that strategy to work. Certain Avatars are better at certain strategies too (ie: Beastman Lord is good at pillaging because he has an extra LT.) It takes time and practice to figure that stuff out, too, so don't beat yourself up if this campaign is a bust. Learn what you can from your defeat and try harder next time.

Or go back to vanilla, it's not exactly dead in the water just because RtL came out. I'm considering that move myself, especially since the campaign book came out.

Yeah will upgrade to silver as soon as possible, then buy at least 1 purple treachery as I am playing the spider queen that will let me use dark charm in encounters, will help damage some heros before they get to the dungeon.

Just a thought I know that Lt's can flee an encounter, but can monsters flee an encounter (not involving a Lt) to stop the Heros winning the encounter so stopping them getting gold/XPs etc

I can't see a rule that says they can't flee.

Also Lt's can Battle and Run, can they Dodge/Guard?

mordak5 said:

Just to make sure you're clear on it, you can use treachery in lieutenant encounters, but not normal encounters.

And to answer your question as best as I can recall, I don't think monsters other than the lieutenants can flee an encounter, and if they can, it wouldn't stop the heroes getting the extra cash for winning. And there's absolutely no reason to flee with a normal monster, as there's no reward gained by the heroes for slaying him, except perhaps to just get him out of the way of your other monsters if there's no other way to. Although I still think you're not allowed to do that anyway. If someone has the rulebook handy they can answer this bit a little more definitively.

And Lieutenants can't do ready actions to place orders, although with the use of some treachery they can get those effects into the game (remember that 1 treachery in a lieutenant encounter gets you either 1 treachery card or 2 non treachery overlord cards of the appropriate type)

I thought that if they flee then the Hero's would NOT be able to kill all the monsters and therefore would not be able to claim the CT for the encounter.

mordak5 said:

Not anytime. Contrarily to vanilla Descent, in RTL the heroes have to stand on or adjacent to a glyph to be able to go to town next turn. They are usually vulnerable while they wait there.

mordak5 said:

Correct.

Thanks Isper, looking at your reply you seem to be agreeing that in a monster only encounter the monsters can flee depriving the Hero's of CTs, is that right?

Mordak said:

Um sorry, I thought "they" referred to the heroes in your sentence "if they flee then the Hero's would NOT be able to kill all the monsters...", wereas it actually referred to the monsters. No, monsters cannot flee. Only lieutenants can. This can be deduced by:

1) The 3 possible encounter outcomes listed by the rules ("party victory: if the party kills all the monsters...", "total party kill", or "party flight"; "monster flight" is not mentioned as a possible outcome), and

2) The fact that it is mentioned that lieutenants can flee like heroes. This is not mentioned for monsters.

Ispher said:

+1

We let the monsters flee, but doing so has the exact same effects as a kill (except that Black Curse monster don;t get to place a curse token) and therefore it counts as a party victory. Basically it is the OL saying "sorry, this is unwinnable and even if I do manage to do some minor damage that wouldn't be worth the time wasted. Lets get on with the campaign."

Thought so, pity, just trying to slow dow the hero's. may be worth it though where there is zero chance of doing damage to speed up game play I suppose.

There's also a lot to be said in the way you play the game, too.

While the party in my game has been powerful, I've still managed to obtain about a 100 CP lead that has lasted into the Gold level, mainly from picking my battles carefully and not giving up. Any damage is good damage to do in the dungeons, and if you have to throw away lesser monsters for the chance, do it. Make aggressive moves, and don't let what the party is doing dictate your responses. I've gotten a few hero kills on long shots that they didn't plan on coming because it was "too risky" for me.

Also, it really helps to see what your party is aiming for in skills and the like, then send your LTs to burn down the towns that have "nothing" they need. Not only are they going to be more focused on upgrading themselves, but it makes for a great talk-off... "I thought you were going to special dungeon x, or get your bronze/silver level upgrades. That town will last for a little while, and you don't really need anything there anyways." While you gain those extra XP per turn.

All in all, I've had some frustrating points, but keep going... you might just surprise yourself.

Thanks, I managed to get 6 CT from the 1st level of the dungeon we are in just now, anad the Hero's only got 2 so that made a nice change, I upgraded my beasts to silver.