Rebels have good units, just not a big variety at this point.

To make a decent rebel build costs half the price of a core set, without that cost barrier we would be seeing more rebel players and more rebel winners. That just leaves scum trailing far behind but the new scum content is amazing in terms of activation count and figure count.

Right now rebels have 13 distinct deployment cards to use, the new content will add another 6 and allow the use of a scum unit (10 choices). The number of rebel options has more than doubled once these are out.

We should also see new content announced at gencon and episode 7 tie in content at Christmas.

Then all 3 factions will start to balance out.

This year's OP is decided by play skill in an environment with limited figures/command cards/missions that is heavily skewed towards imperial.

Next year's OP will be decided by both play skill and squad building skill, with 3 competitive factions and lots of builds.

The skirmish game has a very promising future.

It's very close to 50/50 now. See this thread: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/180244-us-regionals-so-far-imperials-8-rebels-7/

In AZ we had 16 players, including only 4 rebel squads... but rebels won. In CA it was about the same percentage of rebels, and rebels won. In both cases, it was 3 Imperial and one Rebel in the top 4. So, given far fewer folks are playing rebels, they are winning more than their fair share of tournaments. I just don't see how you can say things are broken with these sorts of numbers.

I, at least, don't think most things are broken any more, it just took a while to figure out a good counter. I think if you "fix" anything now would actually break it in favor of rebels. I say most things because I think the smuggled goods is at least as little broken (so, I do hope they rotate that one out).

Scum is another story... they need a fix (either in their own right, or so they can play a better supporting role in Rebel and Imperial squads).

Scum just don't have the troops right now.

The cheapest 8act build they can do is 36 points for 8 models, averaging 4.5 points per model.

The cheapest figure they have is 3.5 points.

They are so far above the curve of the other factions that they cannot be competitive.

The new content will make all the difference.

Then their cheapest 8act build will drop to 32 points and the figure count will increase to 12, averaging 2.66 per figure.

The cheapest figure they will have will be 1.66 points, the cheapest in the game.

We don't know what the stats for these figures will be yet, but we do know that scum will no longer be outclassed in both activation and figure count.

"The cheapest figure they will have will be 1.66 points, the cheapest in the game."

I guess, you're talking 'bout the Tusken Raiders costing 5 Points and being a 3 figure group? I haven't seen their card yet, but I guess, they are just a 2 figure group. The preview says, Twin Shadows comes with ten figures: 2 Heroes, some groups of 2 Heavy Stormtroopers. and some groups of Tusken Raiders. So my guess is: 2 groups of 2 Heavy Stormtroopers and 2 groups of 2 Tusken Raiders.

But I like the idea, that there could be 2 Heroes, 1 group of 2 Heavy Stormtroopers. and 2 groups of 3 Tusken Raiders.

And I have to admit, that I'm really looking Forward to the Hired Guns.

I really want to play Mercs with lots of Hired Guns, 2 Nexus, Gideon Argus and Elite Saboteurs.

Hey now, I took a 5-act Merc build to the Colorado regionals and went 50-50 my two losses were both less 5 points difference (40 - 37) and (40 - 36). Mercs can do very well and people tend to make a lot of mistakes playing against them.....that being said, I do think that they are sub-par compared to both Imp and Rebels.....I just have lots of practice with my chose list of lizards.

Actually, when I buy a product, I want it to be developed to a point, where it serves its purpose. I bought Imperial Assault solely for the skirmish game. I have ZERO interest in the campaign. And I want to play a balanced game competitivly. Because of the unbalance of the Imperial Officer this game does not serve its purpose for me. It's a great product, but it came with a broken piece. I as a customer want that broken piece fixed. I don't want to wait for a long time to buy another product that might fix the broken piece of the first product. Is that so hard to understand?

It's like buying a new car, but the engine does not work at full power because of a leaky hose. And then you suggest, that I wait till next year, because maybe then there will be a new turbocharger on the market, that might bypass that leaky hose? I don't think that I would be to satisfied with my new car ... would you?

And, as I already said before, there are so many problems caused by that single piece, I cannot imagine a way to fix them all solely by buying new releases.

I think the crucial point that you are missing is the distinction between the game 'serving *its* purpose', and 'serving the specific purpose that *you* want it to. You say yourself that you bought the game purely for skirmish, so you bought the game to only play half of it. Essentially you are complaining that they haven't spent enough time on the bit *you* wanted them to.

This makes your car analogy invalid. The 'engine' of the game - its core rules mechanics - works absolutely fine. A better analogy would be that you bought a hybrid car purely because you wanted to stop spending money on petrol, and now you are annoyed because the hybrid car still requires petrol and you really wanted an electric car. It's actually a fairy stupid analogy, but I would argue it is slightly more relevant to the point than yours.

...

G

To be fair, FFG's OP kits aren't provided for people or locales that play the campaign game.

OP's been quiet for a day or two now. I wonder, is he reconsidering his position now that regionals have demonstrated Rebels to be adequate competition?

OP's been quiet for a day or two now. I wonder, is he reconsidering his position now that regionals have demonstrated Rebels to be adequate competition?

Nope. Just tired of saying the same thing over and over again, especially when I am on a podcast that is sure to discuss it tomorrow.

I don't think anything really has changed and peoples view points should be the same. For example in CO it sounds like RG were not played much which kind of hurts the whole point about imperials being overpowerful. I could be wrong but it also sounds like Imperials high act was not played at all. You need Rock(Imperials) and Scissors/Paper(rebels/Mercs) to have a Rock, Paper, Scissors meta.

Rebels really were not played much before at least the 7 act versions so its kind of hard to have a rock paper/scissors meta with out paper/scissors.

In a true meta I think Rebels win 35/40 % of the time and Imperials are still top dog. If I was going to a tournament why would I want to play something that is only 30-40%.

4/4, 9 act and Rebel Blast all take multi of packs so i am not sure you will see them all over the place at regionals but will show up all over at Nationals and worlds. I think thats the biggest reason you have not seen the top squads played since because they are hard to get a hold of.

OP's been quiet for a day or two now. I wonder, is he reconsidering his position now that regionals have demonstrated Rebels to be adequate competition?

Nope. Just tired of saying the same thing over and over again, especially when I am on a podcast that is sure to discuss it tomorrow.

You keep saying the same thing over and over again, and yet you've failed to address the near parity of regional wins by faction. This is what, the third time I've brought it up and been conveniently ignored? So either what you keep saying is wrong, you know it, and your silence is a tacit cop-out, or... actually, I don't have a second option. It feels like that's exactly what you're doing.

Do you have a link to the 'cast? I'll listen with an open mind, but I'm fairly certain the writing's on the wall.

OP's been quiet for a day or two now. I wonder, is he reconsidering his position now that regionals have demonstrated Rebels to be adequate competition?

Nope. Just tired of saying the same thing over and over again, especially when I am on a podcast that is sure to discuss it tomorrow.

You keep saying the same thing over and over again, and yet you've failed to address the near parity of regional wins by faction. This is what, the third time I've brought it up and been conveniently ignored? So either what you keep saying is wrong, you know it, and your silence is a tacit cop-out, or... actually, I don't have a second option. It feels like that's exactly what you're doing.

Do you have a link to the 'cast? I'll listen with an open mind, but I'm fairly certain the writing's on the wall.

Nope, just tired of being agitated constantly. You are using flawed logic, but I can't seem to convince you of it. 4 pages later I just don't care enough to try and convince you any more. Your 'evidence' means nothing when I watch the stream for the AZ regional and feel like the best player won (not the best list). I seriously saw so many mistakes I had to turn it off, and I only watched the last 3 rounds. How can you then hold that up? No one in CO that I am aware of even played a 8+ Imperial list. Is that because Imperial sucks? or the players just aren't aware of it? Simply pointing to "8-7 = balance" is a very simple way of looking at it. Especially when some of the 7 are <8 people tourneys.

At this point, those that have experienced what I am talking about will agree or not. I don't see much point to rambling on and on anymore. I tried, and in your case, failed. Badgering me into talking about it at this point is just ridiculous.

http://iacommand.com/

My logic is flawed, and yours is full of excuses. You asked for 60/40, and you got it. I suppose you're right, there really is nothing else left to say at this point.

My logic is flawed, and yours is full of excuses. You asked for 60/40, and you got it. I suppose you're right, there really is nothing else left to say at this point.

I am the one that said that is what the meta was in march. Everyone said it was 70/30 or less.

This is getting pointless and a worthless debate.This past weekend was flawed to a point, nothing against the other players but you can't have a rock, Scissor, Paper meta without one aka CO. AZ the best player won and thats how it should be.

We will be talking about rebels and Imperials if you want to call into tomorrow night 9:15 Central. But I will kick people from the call if it gets out of hand. The Ca, AZ and maybe the Maryland winner will be on.

Also Lou will be on to talk a little Hockey, Woman's World Cup, NBA to break up the boring topic lol. I am kind of joking.

Iacommand

The show is on talkshoe.com

Need to call in via phone or just join talkshoe to chat

(724) 444-7444

Call id: 136784# then if you want to call in as a guest 1#

FWI the audio is not the greatest and we are aware of this but it will not be addressed till after regional season. Since this is one of the easiest ways we can do interviews via the phone.

OP's been quiet for a day or two now. I wonder, is he reconsidering his position now that regionals have demonstrated Rebels to be adequate competition?

That's almost trolling for a response.

When you've had the last word on a thread you don't agree with, just let it die.

It's obvious that both sides have strong opposing views and that this thread failed to change anyone's mind. We are lucky that in a couple of months both sides will have to reconsider their opinions. We can pick this up with a new thread then.

You're right, I wanted a response. I don't think it's unfair to expect one, even after the evidence has turned against the OP. His prolonged silence on the matter seemed a little too convenient.

You're right, I wanted a response. I don't think it's unfair to expect one, even after the evidence has turned against the OP. His prolonged silence on the matter seemed a little too convenient.

It sounds like you want a response just so you can say "I told you so"

I'm with OP. I think Officers are really strong, overall Imps have the edge (if not a game breaking one) and the reasons we're seeing tournament results like this is because of low turnout and (relatively) inexperienced players. I'm also confident FFG will release new figures to counter the current meta, but until then any list with lots of officers will generally be better than a list without them.

I'm guessing people who say Imp. Officers are balanced have never played against a 4/4. I have, I was 4th in the WI Regional and the only rebel list in the final 4.

I played the 4/4 in the round-of-4 and was tabled by turn 3. In the final round the map was the smuggler/grab the box map and both the officer-heavy lists had 30 VPs by turn 2. The other player in the final just gave up, and was understandably frustrated.

The bottom line is it just wasn't fun. I'll admit I wasn't a super-experienced player nor did I have a 'power' rebel list, but the whole thing turned me off and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that feels that way.

I don't think anyone is saying Officers are balanced, we're just tired of the needless crying about them, especially in the face of increasingly better results for Rebels. Anecdotal evidence is great and all, but it's only a fraction of the picture.

I get it, they're not fun to play against. Unfortunately for many, fun isn't always a requisite for a good list in a competitive environment. More stuff is coming soon, so perhaps we can look to that for some modicum of hope, yeah?

I think now that I've played the game a bit more... at the 2pt level there are no other options. If we had a 4pt unit that did something interesting like spamming stun or whatever... then that's something that might draw our attention away from 2 more officers. I ran a list last night trying to avoid using 4 officers, so I substituted in a probe droid. Really... 2 officers or a probe droid? Its not even a question as to which is better...but what options exist to reduce spam? None. When more stuff comes out... things will change. Until then, most people in my group, including me prefer to play rebels... more colorful.

Weighing in here - Locally, I imagine if someone brings a 4/4 to a league night, we just would choose not to play with that person. Because the point at league night is to experiment and have fun. At a premiere tourney, if you believe the 4/4 build is the strongest, then I suppose you might run into folks who don't play it like you think they should, and it may be a good chance to test skill-against-skill in a mirror match.

However, I do agree that for this regional (and probably nationals) season, the caliber of players who get to the top with a 4/4 list will be bidding for the initiative kiss of death and that is bad news for the game right at this moment. I'd honestly like to see how nationals shakes out before declaring stagnation due to poor planning on FFG's part on a single deployment card. If nationals is a wash because of the officers, then I think that will send a big loud ping to FFG - if they haven't heard one already from the community at large...

If I were one of those ultra-competitive types, then if all I see is the 4/4 list (that I would take myself), then I'd probably just drop early and pay closer attention to the con. But there's certainly no harm in playing it out, if you're of a mind...

After competing in my first small tournament and playing a few imperial 4x officer lists at the event I have more of an opinion on this topic.

I actually don't think officers are broken for non speed related missions (However they are broken for speed missions). I know i'm echoing others comments but i feel if they rotated out the fetch quests and had more control style objectives the competitive game would be much more balanced. There is also a good chance that R2D2 and C3P0 will be cheaper units (i'm hoping for 2 and 3pts) which would allow the rebels to more easily field 7 and 8 activation squads.

Don't get me wrong Officers would still be very good, but not broken. With no errata required.

R2d2 is 3 points.

C3p0 can't cost more than r2, that would be just wrong, so I'm guessing he will be 2 points.

and no amount of wasted anxiety is going to provoke an immediate response from the development team

And this is a very good thing!