Please read here:

http://iacommand.com/rebel-assualt-putting-my-money-where-my-mouth-is/

Or here:

http://teamcovenant.com/hida77/2015/06/05/rebel-assualt-putting-my-money-where-my-mouth-is/

Let me know what you all think. If you play using these, let me know how it goes, I am eagerly awaiting feedback!

FFG isn't going to increase the point values, and I'm not sure how much house rule playtesting is ultimately worth to them. I'm sure people will have fun trying it out, but I would strongly suggest you don't hold your breath.

FFG isn't going to increase the point values, and I'm not sure how much house rule playtesting is ultimately worth to them. I'm sure people will have fun trying it out, but I would strongly suggest you don't hold your breath.

How do you know they won't? I understand they don;t want to, but want and will are two different things. I'm not holding my breath, but I would like to think FFG will do SOMETHING. If this isn't resolved soon after nationals, they may as well forget about IA tournaments all together from where I sit. I am certain I am not alone.

Since I don't have any connections to FFG, I cannot look into my crystal ball and know what they will do. I just hope it will be enough. Until then, lets try what we can easily do.

A simpler fix and less likely to swing balance somewhere else is to limit 3 of the same type in skirmish.

A simpler fix and less likely to swing balance somewhere else is to limit 3 of the same type in skirmish.

That does not fix the issue at all. 2xRG, 2xE Probe, 1xE E-Web, 3xOfficer is one of the best lists right now, and part of the problem.

How do you know they won't? I understand they don;t want to, but want and will are two different things. I'm not holding my breath, but I would like to think FFG will do SOMETHING. If this isn't resolved soon after nationals, they may as well forget about IA tournaments all together from where I sit. I am certain I am not alone.

Since I don't have any connections to FFG, I cannot look into my crystal ball and know what they will do. I just hope it will be enough. Until then, lets try what we can easily do.

They won't because that's not how FFG works. I told you this in the previous thread, they don't errata unless it's to fix a card that isn't working as intended. Both the IG and IO work perfectly, they're just some of the better figures in a game with a limited pool. If FFG doesn't issue a ban (which I don't suspect they'll do, but it's far and away more likely than increasing the point cost), they'll probably issue an indirect fix by adding a reasonable counter in the form of new command/deployment cards.

I understand your perspective, as my friends and I go out of our way to avoid playing Imperial spam lists. But this isn't the first "sky is falling" scenario that we've seen on any of the FFG forums, it won't be the last, and no amount of wasted anxiety is going to provoke an immediate response from the development team. Relax, enjoy your house rules, and have some faith.

A simpler fix and less likely to swing balance somewhere else is to limit 3 of the same type in skirmish.

That does not fix the issue at all. 2xRG, 2xE Probe, 1xE E-Web, 3xOfficer is one of the best lists right now, and part of the problem.

I haven't seen that in any of the regional tournaments... for that matter never seen but one person play with an e-web in skirmish other than in January when it was kinda popular then. I think I played against that same list, but it had storm troopers in place of the 2nd RG. E-Web was annoying, but I just focused on it with my characters until it was gone.

A simpler fix and less likely to swing balance somewhere else is to limit 3 of the same type in skirmish.

That does not fix the issue at all. 2xRG, 2xE Probe, 1xE E-Web, 3xOfficer is one of the best lists right now, and part of the problem.

I haven't seen that in any of the regional tournaments... for that matter never seen but one person play with an e-web in skirmish other than in January when it was kinda popular then. I think I played against that same list, but it had storm troopers in place of the 2nd RG. E-Web was annoying, but I just focused on it with my characters until it was gone.

Paul Heaver (X-Wing World Champ) Won the West Virginia Regional with that exact list...

If I try this I will let you know how it goes. I do think things will balance over time though. Another thing I have been wanting to do is play some restricted matches which can vary from week to week. One week could be 5 or 6 Act limit. Next week could be no officers allowed etc. This might be good way to try out new things and to use combinations that you otherwise might not be wanting to use if you are highly competitive.

How many points usually the imperial winner surclass the rebel one in your tournaments ?
One possible not-house rule solution is to give 1 Vp to adversary for every Officials ( may be except the first ? )
The same with royal guards.

How do you know they won't? I understand they don;t want to, but want and will are two different things. I'm not holding my breath, but I would like to think FFG will do SOMETHING. If this isn't resolved soon after nationals, they may as well forget about IA tournaments all together from where I sit. I am certain I am not alone.

Since I don't have any connections to FFG, I cannot look into my crystal ball and know what they will do. I just hope it will be enough. Until then, lets try what we can easily do.

They won't because that's not how FFG works. I told you this in the previous thread, they don't errata unless it's to fix a card that isn't working as intended. Both the IG and IO work perfectly, they're just some of the better figures in a game with a limited pool. If FFG doesn't issue a ban (which I don't suspect they'll do, but it's far and away more likely than increasing the point cost), they'll probably issue an indirect fix by adding a reasonable counter in the form of new command/deployment cards.

I understand your perspective, as my friends and I go out of our way to avoid playing Imperial spam lists. But this isn't the first "sky is falling" scenario that we've seen on any of the FFG forums, it won't be the last, and no amount of wasted anxiety is going to provoke an immediate response from the development team. Relax, enjoy your house rules, and have some faith.

That isn't particularly true. FFG has absolutely issued errata in order to right an imbalance in thier games. The things they changed were functioning perfectly fine, except for the fact that they were way to good. And in some cases they did so because of community pressure on the subject. That in combination with competitive results highlighting the reality of the issue.

X-wing had Cloak, SWLCG had May the Force be With You and Gamor Run, AGOT has had any number of reactions that were made limited. You can also view any of thier LCG Restricted lists in the same light as well.

Changing costs would be something new for FFG but they absolutely have used errata to functioning interactions, rules, etc; to implement balance change.

And the reason I don't believe people have much in the way of faith for IA is twofold.

First, turnout for these Regionals is already very low. I can say at least locally and in a few other areas this is due to how narrowly defined competitive lists are (because of the Imperial Officers and Royal Guards) and how in certain scenarios there is a decent chance for a NPE. Attendance drops anymore and you won't have events.

Secondly, this (unlike most others) is two games in one. I don't know where FFGS focus is, but I honestly doubt it is on Skirmish. The Campaign style seems to be the manner in which most people play the game. And it is going to be incredibly difficult for FFG to balance both Campaign and Skirmish at the same time given the overlap in particularly Imperial deployment cards between the two. I don't think they are going to be able to do so without acknowledging that some abilities need different wordings for the two different game moods, or perhaps different costs.

As far as I've seen (from X-wing) FFG doesn't errata squad points on cards, and the only text errata on cards has been to clarify an ability. The do errata the game rules, but I don't see how this specific issue can be addressed by those means unless they add a limitation to the number of activations allowed in a Skirmish squad. Otherwise they could release another 2 point deployment card for Rebels and/or Mercenary, or make a Command Card that targets 2 deployment cards so that they become more of a liability to spam.

How do you know they won't? I understand they don;t want to, but want and will are two different things. I'm not holding my breath, but I would like to think FFG will do SOMETHING. If this isn't resolved soon after nationals, they may as well forget about IA tournaments all together from where I sit. I am certain I am not alone.

Since I don't have any connections to FFG, I cannot look into my crystal ball and know what they will do. I just hope it will be enough. Until then, lets try what we can easily do.

They won't because that's not how FFG works. I told you this in the previous thread, they don't errata unless it's to fix a card that isn't working as intended. Both the IG and IO work perfectly, they're just some of the better figures in a game with a limited pool. If FFG doesn't issue a ban (which I don't suspect they'll do, but it's far and away more likely than increasing the point cost), they'll probably issue an indirect fix by adding a reasonable counter in the form of new command/deployment cards.

I understand your perspective, as my friends and I go out of our way to avoid playing Imperial spam lists. But this isn't the first "sky is falling" scenario that we've seen on any of the FFG forums, it won't be the last, and no amount of wasted anxiety is going to provoke an immediate response from the development team. Relax, enjoy your house rules, and have some faith.

That isn't particularly true. FFG has absolutely issued errata in order to right an imbalance in thier games. The things they changed were functioning perfectly fine, except for the fact that they were way to good. And in some cases they did so because of community pressure on the subject. That in combination with competitive results highlighting the reality of the issue.

X-wing had Cloak, SWLCG had May the Force be With You and Gamor Run, AGOT has had any number of reactions that were made limited. You can also view any of thier LCG Restricted lists in the same light as well.

Changing costs would be something new for FFG but they absolutely have used errata to functioning interactions, rules, etc; to implement balance change.

And the reason I don't believe people have much in the way of faith for IA is twofold.

First, turnout for these Regionals is already very low. I can say at least locally and in a few other areas this is due to how narrowly defined competitive lists are (because of the Imperial Officers and Royal Guards) and how in certain scenarios there is a decent chance for a NPE. Attendance drops anymore and you won't have events.

Secondly, this (unlike most others) is two games in one. I don't know where FFGS focus is, but I honestly doubt it is on Skirmish. The Campaign style seems to be the manner in which most people play the game. And it is going to be incredibly difficult for FFG to balance both Campaign and Skirmish at the same time given the overlap in particularly Imperial deployment cards between the two. I don't think they are going to be able to do so without acknowledging that some abilities need different wordings for the two different game moods, or perhaps different costs.

It is true, and while you make fair points, there's nothing there that fundamentally contradicts what I've said. I've already addressed bans (accompanied naturally by restrictions) and rules changes; none of that has anything to do with altering point costs. FFG will change rules when absolutely necessary, but they don't errata cards unless they aren't working properly. Changing a major rule is a ponderous process that has a lot of implications for interactions both past and present, so they deliberately take their time to make sure they don't break something else in the process. They would much rather do that (and rightfully so) than add an additional FAQ entry for each individual card or figure that needs a balance tweak.

As for how much of an impact "community pressure" has on FFG, that's subject to no small amount of debate. We're a vocal minority, and while they undoubtedly read these forums, I refuse to take credit for the advancement of game balance. That's an internal issue, and we really have no idea how much change originates with the development team.

And the reason I don't believe people have much in the way of faith for IA is twofold.

First, turnout for these Regionals is already very low. I can say at least locally and in a few other areas this is due to how narrowly defined competitive lists are (because of the Imperial Officers and Royal Guards) and how in certain scenarios there is a decent chance for a NPE. Attendance drops anymore and you won't have events.

Secondly, this (unlike most others) is two games in one. I don't know where FFGS focus is, but I honestly doubt it is on Skirmish. The Campaign style seems to be the manner in which most people play the game. And it is going to be incredibly difficult for FFG to balance both Campaign and Skirmish at the same time given the overlap in particularly Imperial deployment cards between the two. I don't think they are going to be able to do so without acknowledging that some abilities need different wordings for the two different game moods, or perhaps different costs.

There are several bits of this that I couldn't disagree with more.

IA is a fully fledged campaign game out of the box but the skirmish mode is still in its infancy.

The skirmish balance will come with time and it's far too early in its lifecycle to assume that combinations are broken. Or that these "broken" lists are responsible for low tournament turnouts.

You compared IA to the LCG's but they are widely regarded as being very stale until the first 1-2 cycles have been released. That's no different than your complaint about IA and the fix is the same, release more content. Once twin shadows and the additional figure packs have been released there will be answers to the things that currently give you trouble.

The reason that tournaments are so small is that there is a significant cost barrier to tournament play. One set of IA gives 5 players access to the campaign game (at any one time) and these same players also have access to casual skirmish games. A large number of these players will have access to star wars miniatures (or will buy them for a fraction of the price of FFG figure packs) allowing them to use multiples of each deployment card for little/no extra cost.

For those 5+ friends to start playing in tournaments each player needs to spend £60+ on a core set each and buy enough legal figure packs to construct their squads. To be competitive they probably want 2 core sets. In total that group of friends would need an extra £1,000+ to play in competitive tournaments.

At this stage it's cheaper to buy a tournament kit and hold your own unsanctioned tournament that to follow FFG's tournament rules.

An LCG has no additional cost barrier to move from casual to tournament play, the starting cost is much cheaper and you can even lend cards to other players for tournament play.

FFG need to change the rule saying that every player needs to bring tiles and allow printed out maps instead, so every player doesn't have to own the core game. The after a few expansions those 5 friends will be able to make multiple good skirmish lists from a single complete set. Then they would have no reason not to join in tournament play.

We will not see a fully balanced skirmish game until all 3 factions are equally balanced.

Wonder, as I noted in multiple games FFG has errata'd cards that were functioning properly. Except that they were clearly overpowered. I can find you more then a few AGOT cards that have added text via errata in order to tone down thier impact. Some cards have been nearly completely changed a year plus after thier release just for being to good. I can do the same for some other games as well.

I would also be very suprised to see them errata a cards deployment cost, but I would not be at all surprised to see them errata the Officer's Order ability for Skirmish only. And moving forward I absolutely think they will need to have Skirmish and Campaign versions of abilities with different effects on future releases.

As to the communities effect on FFG actions, I absolutely think it gets overstated. But then again FFG is not going to fix something if it isn't seen as a problem. So I do not think it is a case of FFG caving to community pressure, but I do absolutely think it causes them to revisit issues they would not otherwise. And given the Regional results we have been seeing I do, generally speaking, believe that FFG is going to need to revisit the Imperial Officers.

Mullet, I agree there are logistical concerns that absolutely inhibit Skirmish Play. I stated such at fairly decent length in my TO report to FFG for the Regional I ran.

But I can also say that there were players that would have played, that own the products needed to play, but did not because they found in practicing that they didn't enjoy the current Skirmish game because of the overy abundance of Imperial Officers in competitive builds and what there abilities do in certain scenarios.

If a fix is needed for skirmish it should be that the player with the fewest deployment cards gets a number of passes equal to the difference.

The figures already announced have ways to get around the officers cower ability, their life expectancy will be dropping in a few months.

More trooper builds will appear when heavy troopers, trooper character and the trooper pack arrive. This will reduce the number of RG builds.

The imperials are getting 2 New types of figures but the rebels are getting 5 types plus the ability to use a scum unit. This should increase the number of rebel builds and decrease the number on IO builds.

We haven't seen everything yet but I've seen plenty of reasons to be hopeful.

The game is fine just won Chicago with Rebels lol. Rebels are over powered lol BAN the Elite Sab lol

If a fix is needed for skirmish it should be that the player with the fewest deployment cards gets a number of passes equal to the difference.

The figures already announced have ways to get around the officers cower ability, their life expectancy will be dropping in a few months.

More trooper builds will appear when heavy troopers, trooper character and the trooper pack arrive. This will reduce the number of RG builds.

The imperials are getting 2 New types of figures but the rebels are getting 5 types plus the ability to use a scum unit. This should increase the number of rebel builds and decrease the number on IO builds.

We haven't seen everything yet but I've seen plenty of reasons to be hopeful.

I'm not sure you fully understand what the problem is.

Part of the problem is the number of activations, to be sure - so I can see why you made your first suggestion, though it removes some of the tactical choice between fewer, better units or more activations. Still, as things stand, three Officers or a single unit of Stormtroopers is, indeed, a fairly easy choice, so I understand what you're getting at.

The problem is not, though, that Officers are too hard to kill. Who cares if I can get round their Cower ability? It's their Command ability that matters. What does it help me to kill an Officer more easily, when we're playing Smuggled Goods and I'm 30-0 down within the first six activations? Killing all the Officers to make it 30-8 doesn't go very far towards evening things up.

2 points for an Imperial Officer gives a very cheap activation, which is nice; but Probe Droids are only 3 points and nobody's running 4x Probe Droid lists, so evidently it's not quite that simple. The real problem is that in combination with their low points and easy availability, they are far, far too good - granting an extra Move Action to a better model is just broken. Wookie Warriors and Hired Guns do literally nothing to fix that, so this problem isn't going to magically go away.

If a fix is needed for skirmish it should be that the player with the fewest deployment cards gets a number of passes equal to the difference.

The figures already announced have ways to get around the officers cower ability, their life expectancy will be dropping in a few months.

More trooper builds will appear when heavy troopers, trooper character and the trooper pack arrive. This will reduce the number of RG builds.

The imperials are getting 2 New types of figures but the rebels are getting 5 types plus the ability to use a scum unit. This should increase the number of rebel builds and decrease the number on IO builds.

We haven't seen everything yet but I've seen plenty of reasons to be hopeful.

I'm not sure you fully understand what the problem is.

Part of the problem is the number of activations, to be sure - so I can see why you made your first suggestion, though it removes some of the tactical choice between fewer, better units or more activations. Still, as things stand, three Officers or a single unit of Stormtroopers is, indeed, a fairly easy choice, so I understand what you're getting at.

The problem is not, though, that Officers are too hard to kill. Who cares if I can get round their Cower ability? It's their Command ability that matters. What does it help me to kill an Officer more easily, when we're playing Smuggled Goods and I'm 30-0 down within the first six activations? Killing all the Officers to make it 30-8 doesn't go very far towards evening things up.

2 points for an Imperial Officer gives a very cheap activation, which is nice; but Probe Droids are only 3 points and nobody's running 4x Probe Droid lists, so evidently it's not quite that simple. The real problem is that in combination with their low points and easy availability, they are far, far too good - granting an extra Move Action to a better model is just broken. Wookie Warriors and Hired Guns do literally nothing to fix that, so this problem isn't going to magically go away.

Just use blast as your activation control if you play Rebels worked really for me vs Officers at Chicago. If the officers are dead they can't do much. I played 2 of the 3 speed missions my squad is not built for. How do we know the wookiees or Hired Guns don't fix the activation problem we don't even know their stats?

Wonder, as I noted in multiple games FFG has errata'd cards that were functioning properly. Except that they were clearly overpowered. I can find you more then a few AGOT cards that have added text via errata in order to tone down thier impact. Some cards have been nearly completely changed a year plus after thier release just for being to good. I can do the same for some other games as well.

I would also be very suprised to see them errata a cards deployment cost, but I would not be at all surprised to see them errata the Officer's Order ability for Skirmish only. And moving forward I absolutely think they will need to have Skirmish and Campaign versions of abilities with different effects on future releases.

As to the communities effect on FFG actions, I absolutely think it gets overstated. But then again FFG is not going to fix something if it isn't seen as a problem. So I do not think it is a case of FFG caving to community pressure, but I do absolutely think it causes them to revisit issues they would not otherwise. And given the Regional results we have been seeing I do, generally speaking, believe that FFG is going to need to revisit the Imperial Officers.

I think we agree at a fundamental level, but we're talking past each other. Yes, they errata. No, they won't alter point cost. I mentioned in the other thread that they might alter the rules for issuing multiple orders a turn; that seems a more appropriate analogue to what we've seen in other games.

How do we know the wookiees or Hired Guns don't fix the activation problem we don't even know their stats?

We know Wookies are 8 points and Hired Guns are 4 points, so that's still four Officers for one Wookie unit.

We may not know, but I strongly suspect (and I doubt you will disagree), that neither of them will have an ability like "prevents Imperial Officers using their Command action".

And even if they have something even better, and the meta becomes nothing but dozens of Hired Guns instead of Imperial Officers: is that really an improvement? You have to buy the latest, greatest units because the Core Set is hugely imbalanced in favour of Officers and the only way to top that is to buy some other specific unit instead? What is this, 40K?

I just won a regional with Wave 1 figures mainly and with Rebels. Yes I sniped the Officers turn 1 and got a huge advantage in all my games vs the officers. The officers were really not a factor activations or speed for all my games. I think the talk about the power of the officer and RG spam is over the time. They are a problem but if you use the Elite Sabs as your activation control its amazing if done right.

I just won a regional with Wave 1 figures mainly and with Rebels. Yes I sniped the Officers turn 1 and got a huge advantage in all my games vs the officers. The officers were really not a factor activations or speed for all my games. I think the talk about the power of the officer and RG spam is over the time. They are a problem but if you use the Elite Sabs as your activation control its amazing if done right.

You must be ridiculously lucky to get that consistently. I am lucky to get blast 2 whenever I try that. In fact the last 5 times I've triedI have failed to roll more than one surge, despite being frequently focused. How many Imperial lists did you play against with 8+ activations? The issue is if you fail to get blast 3+ you get mauled.

I will concede that being able to consistently get Blast 3+ is bad for high-act Imperial. I have just never been able to pull it off consistently, which is a problem if you have a tournament with 4+ Rounds.

I had Explostive Weaponly x2 early vs the imperial build 8 act build I played. Vs Imperials when we played Smuggled goods I got Urgency , and Change of plans turn 1. I also got off a good Blast turn 1. Yes I got really good draws and Missions both games when I needed it. You also have to understand I played a build like sabs back in the minis days. They were gungans and played a lot like sabs. My skill level playing sabs I think is a lot higher than most.

In round 1 I made like 9 dodges and 4-5 in a row. I was really rusty from not playing. Yes I got really good draws in game 2 and 3 but they weren't even close and I am not sure it was going to matter.

In a four+ round tournament and 20+ players I think Rebels are better since odds the best players are playing each other and the matchups will be more all over the map.

On top of EW x2 I have two other ways to take away the dice of the officers and its not that hard to get double Surge. You can also setup luke a lot of time. also you really only need to take out one officer or two since you do have 7 acts.