If a game is not in a constant flux, its... well... Dead?!?
Tell that to Chess.
Talk about a game that needs a 2.0 version.
It really wasn't that engaging of a game. Trust me on this I have tried it.
Didn't much liked it. It looked cool but mechanics and other systems that were put in place were not that intuitive. IMHO it felt like it played really clunky compared to the classic chess.
Just the sight of that is headache inducing.
Tell that to Chess.If a game is not in a constant flux, its... well... Dead?!?
That is not to say that there isn't changes to Chess. Now while the rules are mostly the same the rankings, handicap system with the clock, and how tournaments are run do play a part of the game. Besides even Chess had some errata or rule changes. En-passant was a rule that was added in the 15th century, nearly 1,000 years after the game of chess was created. (Now imagine waiting that long for an FAQ updateFirst of all, Battle Chess is just Chess.Oh did know one tell you about battle chess or regicide or three player chess?
2nd of all, how many people who play Chess regularly actually play any of those things you mentioned?
The Chess community plays the same game now that they've been playing for 500 years.
). The Rules of Chess have been Amended many times since then.
Okay we could say the pawns are a bit underpowered in chess and that white team is favored because it always starts... But then in chess you can't really select your team with a point system, can you?
Edited by ForceMKnightmare Chess adds a whole new element of unpredictability to the static game of standard Chess by giving players cards that they can play before, after, or sometimes instead of their turns. Some cards affect only a single move, while others change the entire game. Each card is assigned a point value, so you can build custom decks based on an agreed point total or handicap the match so that the better player has fewer powerful cards. Multiple variants are included in the rules. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/227/knightmare-chess
You guys really need to check this thing out.
To the OP:
Beside it is fun to try to find some improvements, fixes or card suggestions:
This is a board, so this is the voice of the community. The desginers don´t need to accept suggestions. But it is a good way to watch out and get a feeling about some unbalancing looking at "complaints" and improvement suggestions. Because this is the crowd, with high n count, not some beta testers. And I don´t think the game desginers are not looking forward to some constructive critic. I am quite sure the overpower of the phantom was first (and most) complained here, and therefore as a further step, the phantom was nerfed (leading to a better balanced game). The community is suggesting fixes (doesn´t matter how crappy some are ), but the fact that there are lot of threads about it can be a signal that the mainstream, the crowd, is probably not wrong. Nevertheless, the final desicion remains on the game designers.
To the OP:
Beside it is fun to try to find some improvements, fixes or card suggestions:
This is a board, so this is the voice of the community. The desginers don´t need to accept suggestions. But it is a good way to watch out and get a feeling about some unbalancing looking at "complaints" and improvement suggestions. Because this is the crowd, with high n count, not some beta testers. And I don´t think the game desginers are not looking forward to some constructive critic. I am quite sure the overpower of the phantom was first (and most) complained here, and therefore as a further step, the phantom was nerfed (leading to a better balanced game). The community is suggesting fixes (doesn´t matter how crappy some are
True thing.
Its the "complaining mainstream" als well as some "unique fix and design ideas" that help designers getting a better image of how the things are used they created and this all leads to new product ideas and thus new boxes.
Even if there are fix ideas for under-used or unused pilots and upgrade cards, stating how useless those cards are right now - thats just an indicator how the game and each single element of it is valued by the community.
See my latest Fixing Fels Wrath topic - I can get behind the idea of his ability, but its just too weak and too situational.
With the supposed fix, by just adding a word in his card text, I think he would become useful.
So I value this element by spending time with thinking about it and share my thoughts to the X-Wing community rather to abadon Fel's Wrath completely. The designers should be proud. Every contribution counts to make X-Wing even more awesome.
If a game is not in a constant flux, its... well... Dead?!?
Tell that to Chess.
For real. Constant flux is a bad thing.
Tell that to Chess.If a game is not in a constant flux, its... well... Dead?!?
For real. Constant flux is a bad thing.
Constant flu would be bad... flux not so much...
Stagnation is death to live you must evolve.
Look at 40k even though the costs of units have dropped and armies have grown it's still a skirmish game so it's become sluggish to play because the system was not designed to handle the bloated forces.
40K and dropping costs are not words that one often finds in the same sentence.
The game designers are not infallible.
And I never said "the game is perfect." It doesn't need to be. No game is.
WRONG! games that were perfect, Squad Leader, Chess, Backgammon, Race for the Galaxy, Battle Lore, ect.... just to name a few!
The game is NOT balanced! (If you think it is, then Play 4 Tie Bombers or 3 X-Wings!) I have invested LOTS of money on this game, (I have invested to much money really!!). I want the game to work! It doesn't. You mark my words, FFG will fix every thing wrong in the game. It will be called the Second Edition!
40K and dropping costs are not words that one often finds in the same sentence.
Yeah but we are talking points not pounds.
When I were a lad an army were thirty guys, now it's seventy to a hundred for some armies.
or 3 imperial Knights 
Stagnation is death to live you must evolve.
Look at 40k even though the costs of units have dropped and armies have grown it's still a skirmish game so it's become sluggish to play because the system was not designed to handle the bloated forces.
Warmachine is a skirmish game. 40k is not.
40K and dropping costs are not words that one often finds in the same sentence.
Yeah but we are talking points not pounds.
When I were a lad an army were thirty guys, now it's seventy to a hundred for some armies.
That is what also drives prices up. Model count is a big factor in table top games as more models mean more expensive.
The only "fix" I would suggest would be some non-unique z's that could take an EPT like Black Squadron ties or Green Squadron A-wings.
The only "fix" I would suggest would be some non-unique z's that could take an EPT like Black Squadron ties or Green Squadron A-wings.
I dunno. They're already so cheap, Just take Ka'ato on Scum for 15 pts. Blount is a bit more expensive, but giving him an auto-hit Ion missile or assault missile kinda makes him worth it.
I want to read more suggestions for rules fixes and upgrades in this thread.
Stagnation is death to live you must evolve.
Look at 40k even though the costs of units have dropped and armies have grown it's still a skirmish game so it's become sluggish to play because the system was not designed to handle the bloated forces.
Warmachine is a skirmish game. 40k is not.
No it is and that's why it's so painful to play now, they are still using 3rd edition stats,movement and shooting mechanics which worked fine when the average game was 1000 points and your average model count was 25 or less.
Now the norm is 2k points and your using fifty plus models.
However if you play killteam at 200 points you get a working game that's quick to play using around ten models.
So maybe off topic but IF there ever is a second edition how do you think ffg would implement it? Would you still be able to use existing models or would you need to buy all new expansions with the new models? If that was the case I would be quite upset. I would hope they just come out with a core set with new cards and or you can send in your old cards for new updated ones. What do you guys think?
The only "fix" I would suggest would be some non-unique z's that could take an EPT like Black Squadron ties or Green Squadron A-wings.
I dunno. They're already so cheap, Just take Ka'ato on Scum for 15 pts. Blount is a bit more expensive, but giving him an auto-hit Ion missile or assault missile kinda makes him worth it.
it's possible they're withholding a PS 4 generic EPT (14 points) because of the possibly synergy with missiles (which ties don't have, in fact they don't have any upgrade slots)
A-wings have missile slots, but they're so overcosted that there's a very good reason to take refit above anything (apart from maybe rockets) and the basic prototype is priced way above 14 points
The only "fix" I would suggest would be some non-unique z's that could take an EPT like Black Squadron ties or Green Squadron A-wings.
I dunno. They're already so cheap, Just take Ka'ato on Scum for 15 pts. Blount is a bit more expensive, but giving him an auto-hit Ion missile or assault missile kinda makes him worth it.
it's possible they're withholding a PS 4 generic EPT (14 points) because of the possibly synergy with missiles (which ties don't have, in fact they don't have any upgrade slots)
A-wings have missile slots, but they're so overcosted that there's a very good reason to take refit above anything (apart from maybe rockets) and the basic prototype is priced way above 14 points
I don't agree with the idea that A-Wings are overcosted. A refit Prototype is 15 pts. That's 3 above an Academy Pilot. Replace 1 of the TIE's hull with the A's shield (based on shield upgrade cost: shield over hull is 1 pt. difference; 15-1 = 14). Then add the second shield (14-4=10). Then add the better maneuver dial. You're looking at a far superior ship if we use the generic 2-attack, 3-agility TIE as a reference point. Even without the refit, the A-Wing is still not overcosted. But yes, I agree that Z-95s are too cheap and good to have even cheaper EPT pilots.
The only "fix" I would suggest would be some non-unique z's that could take an EPT like Black Squadron ties or Green Squadron A-wings.
I dunno. They're already so cheap, Just take Ka'ato on Scum for 15 pts. Blount is a bit more expensive, but giving him an auto-hit Ion missile or assault missile kinda makes him worth it.
it's possible they're withholding a PS 4 generic EPT (14 points) because of the possibly synergy with missiles (which ties don't have, in fact they don't have any upgrade slots)
A-wings have missile slots, but they're so overcosted that there's a very good reason to take refit above anything (apart from maybe rockets) and the basic prototype is priced way above 14 points
I don't agree with the idea that A-Wings are overcosted. A refit Prototype is 15 pts. That's 3 above an Academy Pilot. Replace 1 of the TIE's hull with the A's shield (based on shield upgrade cost: shield over hull is 1 pt. difference; 15-1 = 14). Then add the second shield (14-4=10). Then add the better maneuver dial. You're looking at a far superior ship if we use the generic 2-attack, 3-agility TIE as a reference point. Even without the refit, the A-Wing is still not overcosted. But yes, I agree that Z-95s are too cheap and good to have even cheaper EPT pilots.
I meant the base cost of the A-wing is overpriced (hence refit, which takes up the missile slot)
I personally adore the prototype. It's such a dramatic improvement over a lone Z-95 that it's almost the easiest 3 points to spend in the game 
(right alongside ptl on soonts)
The only "fix" I would suggest would be some non-unique z's that could take an EPT like Black Squadron ties or Green Squadron A-wings.
I dunno. They're already so cheap, Just take Ka'ato on Scum for 15 pts. Blount is a bit more expensive, but giving him an auto-hit Ion missile or assault missile kinda makes him worth it.
it's possible they're withholding a PS 4 generic EPT (14 points) because of the possibly synergy with missiles (which ties don't have, in fact they don't have any upgrade slots)
A-wings have missile slots, but they're so overcosted that there's a very good reason to take refit above anything (apart from maybe rockets) and the basic prototype is priced way above 14 points
I don't agree with the idea that A-Wings are overcosted. A refit Prototype is 15 pts. That's 3 above an Academy Pilot. Replace 1 of the TIE's hull with the A's shield (based on shield upgrade cost: shield over hull is 1 pt. difference; 15-1 = 14). Then add the second shield (14-4=10). Then add the better maneuver dial. You're looking at a far superior ship if we use the generic 2-attack, 3-agility TIE as a reference point. Even without the refit, the A-Wing is still not overcosted. But yes, I agree that Z-95s are too cheap and good to have even cheaper EPT pilots.
I meant the base cost of the A-wing is overpriced (hence refit, which takes up the missile slot)
I personally adore the prototype. It's such a dramatic improvement over a lone Z-95 that it's almost the easiest 3 points to spend in the game
Ah, then yes that's kinda true! It's a risk, but if you use that awesome dial right, it's worth the price. Plus, a PS3 ship with 2 EPTs is kinda entertaining.
The disparity between perceived consequence versus actual consequence in this thread is mildly alarming, as well as amusing. OP has a legit issue...not everyone agrees, but there doesn't need to be any saving face. I mean...c'mon, it's not as if there is any consequence to having a reputation here.
To post something on topic...I do have a similar sentiment as the OP. I gave up on reading most of the "fixes" threads now. It is mildly annoying to take a week long break from the forums, come back to see different threads discussing the same topics. The fixes threads are especially rough because they typically don't build on each other, it's just a bunch of ideas, of wildly varying quality, being thrown out. I'm not proposing legislation, just stating facts.
So, while the thread title was a little melodramatic, I don't think OP's concerns are without merit. The "complaining about complaining = hypocrisy" is always a little hard for me to get behind...if you identify something you don't like, you have the right to acknowledge it and attempt to tame it as it gets out of control.
