Timing of N'dru's ability

By Budgernaut, in X-Wing Rules Questions

"When Attacking, if there are no other friendly ships at range 1-2, you may roll 1 additional attack die."

My question is, can you measure whether you are in range 1-2 of a friendly ship before declaring a target?

I think the answer is "yes," but I wouldn't mind some confirmation.

According to the FAQ, the scope of an attack includes all the steps on page 10 of the core rules. The first step is to declare a target but you are free to measure range to any target before committing to attack a target. While a friendly wouldn't constitute a target, it seems unlikely that they would prohibit measurement to a friendly before committing to an attack.

Also, if "when attacking" means anytime during the steps on page 10, then that would also support the notion that you could measure range to a friendly before declaring a target.

Why does it matter? The biggest issue would be if you were going to use Cluster Missiles or "Hot Shot" Blaster or some other expendable upgrade and you want to make sure you've got the extra die before you commit to that.

Thanks for your input!

Edited by Budgernaut

I would agree that you can measure to see if N'Dru's ability triggers before declaring your target / weapon.

I'd say the same goes for Lone Wolf, Cracken, Howlrunner, Etahn, and any other abilities that depend on the range between ships or a ship being in or out of arc.

Edit: To be thorough...

  • You may want to check for Lone Wolf before you decide to fire your Cluster Missiles.
  • You may want to check if there are 2 friendly ships at range 1 of Cracken before firing his Cluster Missiles.
  • You may want to check if you'll get Howl's re-roll before deciding to shoot at a high-agility target or a low-agility target.
  • You may want to check if the enemy is in Etahn's arc before declaring your target.
Edited by Klutz

You can measure range freely to any and all possible targets when you're declaring a shot. I don't believe that extends to measuring to friendlies, though, as they're not valid targets for the attack, and there's no ability you can use that requires it. You certainly can't make measurements from anything from the active ship.

I disagree with all of Klutz's examples except the first - in each case the ability in question isn't active or you're not measuring from the active ship. And even the one I agree with I kinda disagree with - you can't measure to see if you can use Lone Wolf before you attack - you can measure to check the range to all possible targets though, so you can check the range anyway even though it's not Lone Wolf that's allowing you to.

I disagree with all of Klutz's examples except the first - in each case the ability in question isn't active or you're not measuring from the active ship. And even the one I agree with I kinda disagree with - you can't measure to see if you can use Lone Wolf before you attack - you can measure to check the range to all possible targets though, so you can check the range anyway even though it's not Lone Wolf that's allowing you to.

Yeah, I'd disagree with all of those examples as well. You're never allowed to measure anything until it happens. N'dru Suh'lak's ability gives you an extra attack die when you roll attack dice; when you're attempting to declare a target you don't even have any attack dice yet.

Lone Wolf, "Howlrunner", and Etahn A'baht trigger in the "attacker modifies attack dice" and/or "defender modifies defense dice" steps, and Airen Cracken doesn't even trigger until after you have performed an attack.

But where does it say that "when attacking" = "rolling attack dice" ? I've looked in the FAQ and core rules and I haven't found it yet. Instead, I have found that "attack" is defined as all the steps on page 10 of the core rules. So as soon as you enter the step where you can measure for targets, you have begun your "attack" so you should be able to utilize "when attacking" abilities.

You're right, you can't measure anything until it happens, but once you begin your combat steps, you are "attacking."

For some relevant quotes:

FAQ 3.02:

"RULEBOOK (PAGE 10)

The scope of a single attack is not defined. The first paragraph on page 10
should read:
“During this phase, each ship may perform one attack against one enemy
ship. Starting with the ship with the highest pilot skill, to perform one attack,
players resolve the following steps in order:”

Core Rules, page 10:
"1. Declare Target: The attacker chooses which
enemy ship he wishes to attack.
2. roll attack Dice: The attacker rolls a number
of attack dice equal to his ship’s primary weapon
value (red number), unless using a secondary
weapon (see “Secondary Weapons” on page 19).
3. Modify attack Dice: Players can spend
action tokens and resolve abilities that reroll or
otherwise modify attack dice results.
4. roll Defense Dice: The defender rolls a
number of defense dice equal to his ship’s agility
value (green number).
5. Modify Defense Dice: Players can spend
action tokens and resolve abilities that reroll or
otherwise modify defense dice results.
6. compare results: Players compare the final
attack and defense dice results to determine if
the defender was hit and how much damage it
suffers.
7. Deal Damage: If the defender was hit, it loses
shield tokens or receives Damage cards based on
the damage it suffers."
I'm more than willing to accept that I cannot measure until I am about to roll the dice, but I need some evidence from the rules documents to support that position.
Edited by Budgernaut

An attack is the whole process you've just quoted. You would check for N'dru's ability in Step 2 - Roll Attack Dice to see if you can add the extra die.

If you were using Lone Wolf, you would check in Step 3 - Modify Attack Dice.

From the FAQ, page 5

Measuring Range

Players may only measure range and/or use the range ruler to determine whether a ship is inside or outside of a firing arc at the following times:
• When a ship becomes the active ship during the combat phase, the active player can measure range from the active ship to any enemy ships before declaring one as its target.
• When a player declares a ship’s ability that requires another ship (or ships) to be at a certain range, the player trying to resolve the ability can measure range from their ship to any valid ships before resolving the ability.
• After declaring the intended target of a target lock action, the active player may measure range to the intended target, and only to the intended target.
Edited by Parravon

But where does it say that "when attacking" = "rolling attack dice" ? I've looked in the FAQ and core rules and I haven't found it yet. Instead, I have found that "attack" is defined as all the steps on page 10 of the core rules. So as soon as you enter the step where you can measure for targets, you have begun your "attack" so you should be able to utilize "when attacking" abilities.

You're right, you can't measure anything until it happens, but once you begin your combat steps, you are "attacking."

...

I'm more than willing to accept that I cannot measure until I am about to roll the dice, but I need some evidence from the rules documents to support that position.

You're correct that you're attacking as soon as you start the process, attacking is a lot more than just rolling dice, you're attacking before you even declare a target, and that N'dru's ability trigger is met the entire time. But that's not actually the condition for measuring range.

Here's the entry for Measuring Range (FAQ, page 5):

Players may only measure range and/or use the range ruler to determinewhether a ship is inside or outside of a firing arc at the following times:
When a ship becomes the active ship during the combat phase, the active player can measure range from the active ship to any enemy ships before declaring one as its target.
When a player declares a ship’s ability that requires another ship (or ships) to be at a certain range, the player trying to resolve the ability can measure range from their ship to any valid ships before resolving the ability.
Bolded the important part for emphasis.
Being able to measure range requires more than just being in the trigger window - it requires that you actually declare the ability. You do that at specific (limited) times. N'dru's ability may meet its own trigger for "When attacking" but the rules say you declare its use in Step 2. Similarly for pretty much all other dice modifiers - they're almost all worded as "When attacking/defending", but they're still declared in the relevant Modify Dice steps.
To maybe put it another way, you're only able to measure when you actually use the ability. Just being able to use it isn't enough.
Edited by Buhallin