I have only played half of an epic game, and by accident I read the rules wrong and we played long ways down the table. Now this may have been an accident, but it seems to me that playing long ways makes a lot of sense.

People complain about Huge ships not being all viable, but maybe because deploying up to range 2 onto the battlefield gets the fighters all up in its grill and inside the range of its big guns too quickly.

It helps with the "we deploy in opposite corners" issues as well as the "use only half the board syndrome" where everything is crammed on one side because people don't want to spread out their forces too much, or even worse one side does.

Maybe 3 feet isn't quite wide enough, so possibly 4 feet by 6 feet might work better. Anyway, looking forward to playing more Epic once the Raider is released.

We deployed in range 1. Is it in the epic tournament rules that it says range 2? I thought range 1 worked well. The CR90 had 2 turns to use its range.

Reading through this thread is making me really want to play Epic, I do have the GR-75 already after all, haven't used it much yet.

Imagine a small personal boat or a small yacht in the path of a battleship, what do you expect?

Now imagine that that small yacht has the ability to fly above or below that battleship at will.

Space is not the ocean.

Well talking about the Epic and overlapping. I have had made a proposal in THIS thread that refines the huge ship overlapping mechanics to more than just an autokill. It could still 1 hit auot-kill but not as certain.

I don't see the issue, just don't park your dumb pancake infront of the Epic ship. Don't lay down in the middle of the expressway. It's that easy.

Captiol ships in Star Wars can move pretty fast. I don't see how this doesn't make sense from a thematic standpoint either.

I'm eagerly awaiting the raider. I've not played an epic game, but the thought of two big ship cracking each other while ties and x-wings dog fight around them is a great visual to me. The battle of vendor, and playing games like x-wing alliance on the pc cemented my love for that imagery.

i would just like to clarify my last post , our game was played on 6x3 table, it was a 2vs2 game and our opponents deployed everything they had on one side of the table in a nice 2 foot rectangle while we had already spread out PS 1 ships on both sides, the game was pretty much over right there and then, i had 75 points of Warthogs facing 400 points of Empire.

Interesting situation. I wonder if adding bombs to the Y-wings (or if you're Imperial, use TIE bombers) would help. Set them up in one corner, but facing along your long edge. If the enemy sets up across from them and choose to give chase, you can drop your bombs to discourage the pursuers, giving time for your other forces to come to the rescue. Only trouble is, if they all start off facing your main contingent instead, the Y-wings won't have much to offer in the way of firepower to save the day (unless I am grossly underestimating warthogs).

I personally feel epic is where its at and where the game really shines.

As others have said you can just do cool and fun stuff like have a proper 'black squadron' not some random hodge podge of pilots.

You can kit out defenders with the ion cannons they are supposed to have.

More importantly though ships that dont seem so good in the 100 point 6 rock deathmatch really find their niche in epic. Bombers have big things to bomb, interceptors and A wings have Y wings and Bombers to intercept (rather than chase each other) etc etc

I certainly prefer epic.

I know its *supposed* to be 300 points but anything above 150 improves the game no end

I also think playing on a 6x4 instead of 6x3 would improve Epic.

I've got an 8x4 mat we use that really rocks.

This was bloody huge game we played, about 600 points a side 'battle of endor'

We had a massive 3-way epic battle this weekend.

I personally feel epic is where its at and where the game really shines.

As others have said you can just do cool and fun stuff like have a proper 'black squadron' not some random hodge podge of pilots.

You can kit out defenders with the ion cannons they are supposed to have.

More importantly though ships that dont seem so good in the 100 point 6 rock deathmatch really find their niche in epic. Bombers have big things to bomb, interceptors and A wings have Y wings and Bombers to intercept (rather than chase each other) etc etc

I certainly prefer epic.

I know its *supposed* to be 300 points but anything above 150 improves the game no end

Yup... almost all of the problems that many people on here scream about comes from the craptastic 100 point oh so ridiculously competitive card-wing-game.

Also, I think Epic is where you really NEED scenarios. You'd never consider playing a game of Apocalypse 40k without some kind of scenario, and Epic really expands the scope of the game to allow simple, yet important scenario conditions. In a standard 100 point dogfight, there is less scope for scenarios since you're really only talking about a handful of fighters clashing in a small area. Their only real objective is going to be killing the enemy and trying to stay alive. Now, I think there needs to be scenarios in the standard game as well, but that's a topic for another day. In Epic though, the game is just screaming out for Scenarios. Objectives like capturing a CR90, or running a blockade with it, or trying to get Rebel transports past Imperial patrols just about write themselves. You can easily work out rules for reinforcements, ambushes, attacks on disabled or damaged huge ships, etc. And simply having victory conditions other than "kill the other guys" you immediately alleviate the problem of some players deploying 300 points of ships in a 2 foot area.

It is a bit strange that, in space, things like obstacles have such a profound effect. I can understand when you're dogfighting that if you wind up on top of an enemy ship that you might have to veer out of the way and be unable to attack them. But why do our pilots always crash into asteroids? Why can't they scatter out of the way when a large ship is bearing down on them?

Your pilots crash because you are commanding them to...You can scatter out of the way...you plan a manuver that will turn your ship out of the way...you might have to sacrifice a shot it two though as you come back around...or do you not feel you should have to do that?

Imagine a small personal boat or a small yacht in the path of a battleship, what do you expect?

Now imagine that that small yacht has the ability to fly above or below that battleship at will.

Space is not the ocean.

As for with a battleship...first is Gilligan on the Dingy?

I enjoy Epic, just sometimes it's hard to find a block of time big enough to set aside. So I don't get the amount of games I would like to

As for ships, it is nice to see the lesser used ships on the board more

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is official ffg scenarios for epic

It is a bit strange that, in space, things like obstacles have such a profound effect. I can understand when you're dogfighting that if you wind up on top of an enemy ship that you might have to veer out of the way and be unable to attack them. But why do our pilots always crash into asteroids? Why can't they scatter out of the way when a large ship is bearing down on them?

Your pilots crash because you are commanding them to...You can scatter out of the way...you plan a manuver that will turn your ship out of the way...you might have to sacrifice a shot it two though as you come back around...or do you not feel you should have to do that?

I feel that in a three dimensional environment, I should be able to fly under or over things with no penalty. Now obviously if I'm right on top of my opponent then it would be hard to get a shot away, but why do I always happen tobe at the exact same altitude as every asteroid on the map? And why does every dogfight take place in an asteroid field? I realise that certain abstractions are required to make a 2D game work, but I feel like they're a bit counter intuitive in some cases.

I dont understand why epic ships move last. What does the PS on the ard even mean?

I dont understand why epic ships move last. What does the PS on the ard even mean?

It counts for other HUGE Ship Pilots.

I dont understand why epic ships move last. What does the PS on the ard even mean?

It counts for other HUGE Ship Pilots.

Also quite important in the combat phase.

It is a bit strange that, in space, things like obstacles have such a profound effect. I can understand when you're dogfighting that if you wind up on top of an enemy ship that you might have to veer out of the way and be unable to attack them. But why do our pilots always crash into asteroids? Why can't they scatter out of the way when a large ship is bearing down on them?

Your pilots crash because you are commanding them to...You can scatter out of the way...you plan a manuver that will turn your ship out of the way...you might have to sacrifice a shot it two though as you come back around...or do you not feel you should have to do that?

I feel that in a three dimensional environment, I should be able to fly under or over things with no penalty. Now obviously if I'm right on top of my opponent then it would be hard to get a shot away, but why do I always happen tobe at the exact same altitude as every asteroid on the map? And why does every dogfight take place in an asteroid field? I realise that certain abstractions are required to make a 2D game work, but I feel like they're a bit counter intuitive in some cases.

Because X-Wing is purely a 2d game. You can ask exactly the same question about the standard 100p game. There are games that emulate 3d. E.g. Aeronautica Imperialis has 9 heigths you can fly on and certain maneauvers also change your height level.

Right, (and we're getting a LOT off topic here) but if you're going to design a 2D game that represents a 3D environment, why would you make it so that any time two objects overlap, there is a collision? Surely there could have been a more elegant solution?

I always thought you could use the base pegs to mark out whether a ship was a level 0, 1,or 2.

Ships above another ship get an extra red die, which would mean everyone would pretty much fly at default of 2 unless they chose to fly low to avoid a ship or object or were forced down a level by an effect.

You could make asteroid randomly 'bob' up and down by having a height of 1 or 2, or 0 and 1 printed on each side and flip them each turn.

The only problem with this would be the faff of changing base sticks and not moving position on the board and the fact that currently some ships *cant* sit on a 0 peg base.

You'd also end up breaking a lot of pegs.

Right, (and we're getting a LOT off topic here) but if you're going to design a 2D game that represents a 3D environment, why would you make it so that any time two objects overlap, there is a collision? Surely there could have been a more elegant solution?

X-Wing is emulating Star Wars ... not reality.

X-Wing is a game ... not a simulation.

Ship to ship overlaps emulate the up close and personal "in your face" nature of Star Wars dogfights, provide an elegant alternative to "stacking" models with stands and miniatures, and add tactical options to the game.

Ship to asteroid overlaps emulate the deadly chaos of Star Wars asteroid fields (see TESB) and add tactical options to the game.

Hmmm... I suppose those ships (the B-Wing and Firespray? Can't think of any others) could simply use an additional peg that doesn't count attached at the "ship end" - in other words, regardless of how many pegs are attached to the ship you only count "up" from the base.

So very, very true sadly...

Lambda also looks odd with no pegs as the wings cant fold down.

I think TIE fighters dont work on one peg either.

Your solution could work is you painted any 'not counted' pegs black for example. Or put red paint 'rings' on any 'in use' pegs so that you just counted red rings for 'altitude'

I was going to use the pegs system for my home rules for atmospheric flight where height level would be critical.

Bonus red die if you were up high (coming out of the sun), bonus green die for hugging ground level but you had had to make a 'debris' field type hit test each turn representing you avoiding crashing into the ground.

Of course you could, if you were not that 'visually' inclined just put a counter next to each ship with its height level if it wasnt the default '2'