Epic is way imbalanced and takes too long. As a result, it ends up with a Warhammer 40K problem where a game can be decided early, but you have to grind it out for 2+ hours to get to the same conclusion. X-Wing works at the 100 point level because the balance is closer (still not perfect) and even a bad game is over pretty quickly, so you can move on.
Your thoughts on the Epic format
Epic is way imbalanced and takes too long. As a result, it ends up with a Warhammer 40K problem where a game can be decided early, but you have to grind it out for 2+ hours to get to the same conclusion. X-Wing works at the 100 point level because the balance is closer (still not perfect) and even a bad game is over pretty quickly, so you can move on.
Why do you mean it's imbalanced? I don't understand that one.
People say it takes long, but only if you plan the lists terribly and don't plan it well enough for epic. If you do this, it really doesn't take that long.
Epic is way imbalanced and takes too long. As a result, it ends up with a Warhammer 40K problem where a game can be decided early, but you have to grind it out for 2+ hours to get to the same conclusion. X-Wing works at the 100 point level because the balance is closer (still not perfect) and even a bad game is over pretty quickly, so you can move on.
That does bring up a good point...Epic mode naturally creates it's own objectives (priority targets, essentially) but is still just "deathmatch deluxe." I'm used to playing long games (Battlestar Galactica, Twilight Imperium, etc) so the time doesn't bother me. However, having a mission objective aside from "kill everything" does focus the game better. Alternatively, a home brew campaign mode (say, a 500 point list to field over 2 or 3 battles) gives you the option to retreat if the mission goes awry.
You can always do epic scenarios. You can even do epic 3 way battles. Each side gets two objectives in the game. Points for each one that is accomplished. Whomever gets the most done wins.
I really don't understand the 'takes too long' complaint.
If you enjoy doing it, then it CAN'T take too long. I've played Apocalypse games of 40K that went for DAYS, not just hours. And I loved every minute of it because playing with toy soldiers is fun! I could play X Wing for hours on end and not get bored, especially with huge ships and full squadrons blatting about the table. Playing with toy spaceships is fun! Getting to play a bigger, longer game should be seen as a bonus, not a negative.
The only catch might be that getting players to commit for an entire evening or afternoon (instead of 90 minutes) might be harder, but honestly our gaming group always meets for minimum of three hours anyway, and most gaming groups get together for longer than that.
Epic is way imbalanced and takes too long. As a result, it ends up with a Warhammer 40K problem where a game can be decided early, but you have to grind it out for 2+ hours to get to the same conclusion. X-Wing works at the 100 point level because the balance is closer (still not perfect) and even a bad game is over pretty quickly, so you can move on.
On the other hand, I have seen my share of epic games where the outcome was "decided" early on, only to see the underdog return from near defeat with a triumphant victory. More ships means there is more space to run and regroup, which can often turn the tide in a battle.
Epic is way imbalanced and takes too long. As a result, it ends up with a Warhammer 40K problem where a game can be decided early, but you have to grind it out for 2+ hours to get to the same conclusion. X-Wing works at the 100 point level because the balance is closer (still not perfect) and even a bad game is over pretty quickly, so you can move on.
On the other hand, I have seen my share of epic games where the outcome was "decided" early on, only to see the underdog return from near defeat with a triumphant victory. More ships means there is more space to run and regroup, which can often turn the tide in a battle.
Very true, and not just Epic Star Wars. I've play several war (cardboard token and miniature) games where one side nearly conceded by turn 3 only to win a couple of hours later.
The length is totally a matter of tastes and time available. Some can play that way some don't. So perhaps the question "Your thoughts on the Epic format" might have been qualified differently. i.e. for the players that don't mind games that last longer than 45 minutes to an hour what are your thoughts on the Epic format. Epic will take longer and some of the setup can be mitigated but the game itself... again it's my tastes is awesome. 
??? Then fold. I can't remember the last x-wing game I played to completion...
Epic is way imbalanced and takes too long. As a result, it ends up with a Warhammer 40K problem where a game can be decided early, but you have to grind it out for 2+ hours to get to the same conclusion. X-Wing works at the 100 point level because the balance is closer (still not perfect) and even a bad game is over pretty quickly, so you can move on.
On the other hand, I have seen my share of epic games where the outcome was "decided" early on, only to see the underdog return from near defeat with a triumphant victory. More ships means there is more space to run and regroup, which can often turn the tide in a battle.
??? Then fold. I can't remember the last x-wing game I played to completion...
Really? I played 4 games last night and just one time did we call it when it was obvious. I had one Z-95 left vs. 3 Tie Interceptors. Other than that, we played till every ship was dead. It was also close for those games, too.
Epic format can be tons of fun, but here are a few tips to make it more fun:
- Design your squad in advance (that should be a given)
- Print out your squad: it will save you 30 minutes of prep time and putting your cards back in your folder in the end if you can just whip our 3 sheets of paper. Feel free to proxy cards for casual games.
- Have your bases ready with number tokens in advance (now all you need to do when you get there is snap your ships in)
- If you lower the prep time to 5 minutes instead of 30-40 minutes then things get more exciting
As for actual squad building:
- Don't field more than 1 huge ship
- Avoid putting too many upgrades
That last part is so that you don't get steamrolled, which would be a bad first experience.
The last epic game that I played, we did 300 points of rebel vs 300 points of Scum in 1h30 minutes. We stopped short of destroying the Corvette because that was the only ship left alive on the Rebel side (and I still had most of my fleet).
This. I played 300 points of my imperial fighters vs. a Tantive and meager escort...it was a steamroll by turn 6, with about 65% of my fighters left vs. his Tantive. I felt bad cause the guy had just opened it but at least it seemed like he had a good time for the few turns it did get to shoot.
Epic format can be tons of fun, but here are a few tips to make it more fun:
- Design your squad in advance (that should be a given)
- Print out your squad: it will save you 30 minutes of prep time and putting your cards back in your folder in the end if you can just whip our 3 sheets of paper. Feel free to proxy cards for casual games.
- Have your bases ready with number tokens in advance (now all you need to do when you get there is snap your ships in)
- If you lower the prep time to 5 minutes instead of 30-40 minutes then things get more exciting
As for actual squad building:
- Don't field more than 1 huge ship
- Avoid putting too many upgrades
That last part is so that you don't get steamrolled, which would be a bad first experience.
The last epic game that I played, we did 300 points of rebel vs 300 points of Scum in 1h30 minutes. We stopped short of destroying the Corvette because that was the only ship left alive on the Rebel side (and I still had most of my fleet).
This. I played 300 points of my imperial fighters vs. a Tantive and meager escort...it was a steamroll by turn 6, with about 65% of my fighters left vs. his Tantive. I felt bad cause the guy had just opened it but at least it seemed like he had a good time for the few turns it did get to shoot.
My buddy ran the Tantive to act as a well-balanced support ship and a weapons platform that tore my fighters apart. He took a range 5 shot at Soontir and toasted him even with Autothrusters since I didn't focus at that distance. And by the time my Defender phalanx and remaining Interceptors got to the CR-90, they've already taken hits from sweeping up the fighter escorts and were blown up way too easily. I still had fun getting stomped, but I learned that it would've been better to deal with the Tantive first before engaging my heavier ships with the fighter escorts.
This. I played 300 points of my imperial fighters vs. a Tantive and meager escort...it was a steamroll by turn 6, with about 65% of my fighters left vs. his Tantive. I felt bad cause the guy had just opened it but at least it seemed like he had a good time for the few turns it did get to shoot.
What was your list?
This. I played 300 points of my imperial fighters vs. a Tantive and meager escort...it was a steamroll by turn 6, with about 65% of my fighters left vs. his Tantive. I felt bad cause the guy had just opened it but at least it seemed like he had a good time for the few turns it did get to shoot.
What was your list?
Every single imperial ship I own armed to the teeth!
Off the top of my head
Vader with EU and Expose
4 Black Squadron
Soontir, Carnor, Tur, and Kir with AT, PTL, SD, and Title
Whisper with all the trimmings
Imperial Kath with Mangler, EU and something else
I think that was it.
1.) It's great fun, even without big ships. Oh sweet, I get to fly 5 Interceptors and 4 Bombers and 8 TIE Fighters?
2.) Game functions just as well at higher point values. Super ships are less of an issue generally, so the game feels less hard countery.
3.) Apparently spams of Lambdas and Bounty Hunters are too good for Epic, but then again if you have 17 Bounty Hunters then you deserve the win lol. Games are more nuanced too, multiple battles can be happening in different parts of the map, and ships can jump from one to the next. Maneuvers have to be planned farther in advance, etc.
4.) People who are waiting until the Raider to try out epic are going to play one epic game and then never play one again. The epic ships are fun but if you wouldn't enjoy 300 points of fighters vs. 300 points of fighters already, having an epic ship isn't going to magically make the battle any more fun for you. The Raider is just going to collect dust like everyone's Tantive and Transport. Epic is about playing a larger scale battle, not flying a list that includes a ship with the arbitrary 'Epic' designation slapped on it.
I've always wanted to do a 12 Phantom squadron for Epic. It fits perfectly...sorta. 12 Sigma Squadron pilots would be 300 exactly...doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.
Having played about 7 games of Epic, each time I tried to make a completely different list from the last, while it's tempting to put most of the same ships in my lists, I really found that some ships and upgrades have a place in Epic opposed to standard 100. For instance, 6 x wings are pretty formidable as your "Pickett Line". some of the named A Wing pilots can fly well without too much penalty. I just think it opens up a lot of synergy within in the rebels that people would want to try in standard 100 but wouldn't be competitive.
Yeah, certain pilots like Etahn and certain cards like Leia Organa start to get exponentially more and more useful as point totals rise, whearas a 44 point Super Whisper is still super good but isn't as hyper powerful.
Epic isn't too long objectively (If such a thing can even be said to exist). It is, however, a lot longer than standard 100 point play, which makes it less practical for people with a limited amount of time. It takes up more space, require more models, require more planning, and require more takedown time afterwords.
While I've only played one game of epic, I feel like team epic is the superior format. It made rounds go a lot faster. Actually, I think 4v4 with or 3v3 with 100 points each might be superior. More players, More chaos! More explosions! More calamitous mistakes as a Gr-75 careens into Corran Horn*!
*Disclaimer: I've never actually seen a huge ship run over a ship, much less one of its allies. I'm just being silly.
Yeah, certain pilots like Etahn and certain cards like Leia Organa start to get exponentially more and more useful as point totals rise, whearas a 44 point Super Whisper is still super good but isn't as hyper powerful.
I agree, while ships like that are always a nuisance, the sheer number of guns pointing at it can deal with it fairly quickly. I often find myself putting Han Solo on my Tantive because majority of the time I'm rolling eyeballs instead of blanks. Epic has a place for super fat ships and at the same time mini swarms and minimal upgraded ships too.
Is there a very competitive Epic scene yet? I'm sure if there isn't once the Raider drops it could pick up.
This. I played 300 points of my imperial fighters vs. a Tantive and meager escort...it was a steamroll by turn 6, with about 65% of my fighters left vs. his Tantive. I felt bad cause the guy had just opened it but at least it seemed like he had a good time for the few turns it did get to shoot.
What was your list?
Every single imperial ship I own armed to the teeth!
Off the top of my head
Vader with EU and Expose
4 Black Squadron
Soontir, Carnor, Tur, and Kir with AT, PTL, SD, and Title
Whisper with all the trimmings
Imperial Kath with Mangler, EU and something else
I think that was it.
OK....so high red dice ships. Yeah, if you go with lots of non-Tie Fighters, the CR-90 won't last long. If half your ships are Tie Fighters, though, it becomes a real challenge.
I find one person making the lists to make them even is best. Also, make sure to borrow to maximize Tie Fighters is also a good thing. Nothing like huge amounts of Tie Fighters on the table!
*Disclaimer: I've never actually seen a huge ship run over a ship, much less one of its allies. I'm just being silly.
I have. It's hysterical! I've seen big ships run over their own allies and the enemy often. It's a nasty weapon. I've even seen Darth Vader run over!
Having played about 7 games of Epic, each time I tried to make a completely different list from the last, while it's tempting to put most of the same ships in my lists, I really found that some ships and upgrades have a place in Epic opposed to standard 100. For instance, 6 x wings are pretty formidable as your "Pickett Line". some of the named A Wing pilots can fly well without too much penalty. I just think it opens up a lot of synergy within in the rebels that people would want to try in standard 100 but wouldn't be competitive.
Yeah, certain pilots like Etahn and certain cards like Leia Organa start to get exponentially more and more useful as point totals rise, whearas a 44 point Super Whisper is still super good but isn't as hyper powerful.
Not to soapbox or derail the thread (sorry if it appears that way).... but that is exactly what I've been going on about in other threads. We don't need to balance everything for a 100 point game but consider the larger picture and situational ships/builds. I'm perfectly happy with bomber never being good in a 100 point game but in an epic game? Do you go after the tanky bomber or the escorts. Epic or just more points not only changes the game it opens so many more options to the game itself. And yes time consideration is one of them. I'm waiting for the Raider and hoping for the Gozanti Cruiser as the Imperial freighter to round out my fleets.
And that's why I'm increasingly more interested in the Epic format, it's really cool to have crazy builds and just a mass of star fighters. It truly opens x wing up to its full potential.
Personally i hated the Epic games i played, it was long, played in 3 feet of space and grouping 400 points in one 2 foot formation was just to strong. Also FFG has taken too long in coming out with another ship so there is no chance now for me to get interested in epic.
Personally i hated the Epic games i played, it was long, played in 3 feet of space and grouping 400 points in one 2 foot formation was just to strong. Also FFG has taken too long in coming out with another ship so there is no chance now for me to get interested in epic.
A 3x3 ft game of epic? Bleh.....I'd not like it, too! It's supposed to be 3x6!
Personally i hated the Epic games i played, it was long, played in 3 feet of space and grouping 400 points in one 2 foot formation was just to strong. Also FFG has taken too long in coming out with another ship so there is no chance now for me to get interested in epic.
Yeah, 3x3 isn't great for Epic t all. We tried 3,000 points in a 3x4 space and that was a huge mistake.