I don't really buy into the VSD being that ignorable. It's a big fat bastard and there are objectives out the whazzo that play into forcing your hand when it comes to engaging it. If the obvious mine fields and contested outpost or firing lanes don't do it, even something like Intel sweep can have the VSD parked near or right on that last crucial token.

Now squadrons absolutely rip and tear the big bastard to pieces, but if you're working with B-wings und Haven then Haven's getting uncomfortably close to the big guy.

Haven's an amazing piece of squadron superiority, but it's not exactly invincible (haven can't even protect itself..holy **** that'd be op). I personally prefer leaving the aces at home and taking generics, reallocating the points to buffing a second whale and then rolling around with long range superiority and a giant DANGER sign in the form of the fattie floatilla.

Worked well so far, but I'm basically the only rebel player so there has yet to be much ranged counter-superiority to worry about.

@felforlife perhaps I will see people get better and start to exploit my Vic-1 in the future...but it seems assumed I won't get better too. The vicstar is dangerous, plain and simple, so no matter how good an openent might be, it can devistate people if it gets in position.

Furthermore, I play at max points to help force my objectives...since it seems people are running hard under the assumption of "imp first is bad". I'll embracd that and willingly go second so I get to play objectives I like: as people have said, objectives aren't being played well.

Yet, I must point out: my wins were heavily enforced via objective play. So I find it interesting that you assert my vic-1 is dead weight in objective play since the opponent can ignore me and go after objectives, yet it's meen the otherway around every game I've played so far.

Also, it's assumed I run my demolished into everything and it can be focused and killed...I can very easily hang back depending on the lists and they HAVE to get near the Vic to tango. I think people severely underestimate the front arcs and plodding speed on victories...they actually synergize well.

Lastly, I think I pointed this out: but I don't care if my vic-1 ever shoots. Your entire point is irrelevant to actual facts...by that I mean no matter what your intentions are, the Vic-1 objectively covers a swath of the board you have to avoid or risk. This helps me play objectives.

The I think your opponents failed to play your objectives well. I also think that you would choose to go second against this list especially if you have more ships. I think opening salvo, hyperspace assault, fire lanes, intel sweep, and dangerous are all bad for you as first player. Superior positions and precision strike are also pretty bad for you in general, had you run into a good Gallant Haven player I think you would have had problems.

I'm not saying that your list isn't good, I'm just saying that the VSD has problems and I think the majority of the community hasn't realized it yet because a majority of the community doesn't have strong rebel players in their meta.

It's a big fat bastard and there are objectives out the whazzo that play into forcing your hand when it comes to engaging it. If the obvious mine fields and contested outpost or firing lanes don't do it, even something like Intel sweep can have the VSD parked near or right on that last crucial token.

Fire lanes is bad for the VSD, CR-90's have enough dice to take/contest points on the sides of the VSD.

Edit double post

@Novista perhaps you haven't seen our growing wealth of articles over at http://www.outpostzero.net!

Cheers for the heads up Steve! Very glad to here it, I've not listened to the pods since FOW V3 came out, I've been on a WoW/WoG hiatus, FOW takes up to much time, which i suppose is part n parcel. But hey, now back to your irregularly scheduled program...

Cheers.

Si.

The I think your opponents failed to play your objectives well. I also think that you would choose to go second against this list especially if you have more ships. I think opening salvo, hyperspace assault, fire lanes, intel sweep, and dangerous are all bad for you as first player. Superior positions and precision strike are also pretty bad for you in general, had you run into a good Gallant Haven player I think you would have had problems.

I'm not saying that your list isn't good, I'm just saying that the VSD has problems and I think the majority of the community hasn't realized it yet because a majority of the community doesn't have strong rebel players in their meta.

It's a big fat bastard and there are objectives out the whazzo that play into forcing your hand when it comes to engaging it. If the obvious mine fields and contested outpost or firing lanes don't do it, even something like Intel sweep can have the VSD parked near or right on that last crucial token.

Fire lanes is bad for the VSD, CR-90's have enough dice to take/contest points on the sides of the VSD.

I'd agree with Fire Lanes being generally an uphill battle for most imp lists.

As for the rest, I sort of agree that they didn't play objectives well...at least in first and third game (Me second with Superior Positions chosen both times). I would simply state that it was my opponents lack of experience (and motivation to understand strategic theory of the game before the game, as experience isn't everything); they weren't aware how dangerous even basic TIEs are in SupPos, one hit with them (50/50) in the aft of a ship and they've paid for their cost almost twice over in points. While I expect this to change a little, I don't know that many people will learn how to effectively counter it with the types of lists that people seem to want to run. So a meta-shift is likely.

As for saying SupPos is bad for my list? I can't even comprehend why you would think that...the only other blue I'd consider is Dangerous Territory, and i'm really not a fan for two reasons:

1.) There's only 5x15 points up for grabs, and it's nearly impossible to get them all.

2.) The only ship worth designating is a ship I NEED to shoot with...maybe after wave 2 with my Raider i'd consider it, but honestly it's SupPos all the way in my eyes.

People go on-and-on about Haven...I really don't care. It doesn't scare me, it doesn't impart flexbility, just a high degree of exploitable power. My brother played it once and I said "what they hell" and dove in...I won, under haven, with luke/wedge/dutch and some generics. I also forgot about accuracy tokens the entire time. Of course my brother made numerous mistakes too, so maybe an experienced and highly skilled player would put up more of a fight.

However, I have Rhymer and a massive figher screen. I can shoot you from outside of your range one, with Escort, and with support. If you're looking to EA me from your flank...it'll be trivially easy to get in behind you for shots under the SupPos objective...glad and bombers w/ advance: 3 black dice at medium range and one of the deadliest brawlers in the game? Good luck. You can stop me, and bomb me to death of course. Rebel fighters are massively powerful, but they have to leave Haven to engage me...have at it.

Precision Strike, OTOH, might be pretty **** deadly to me if they are good with their fighters and can get shots off...but I would find it hard to argue that if I lose the squadron war to the point where i'm losing tons of points to PrecStrike bombers, I'll prob just lose my ships anyway. Fair assumption?

Opening Salvo looks terrible, I agree. Am I to assume, if I table my opponent and he damages both ships he gets half those points but I don't an extra half-his for killing them? Prob would avoid this like the plauge...actually, most Red's I'd avoid picking as first player haha. Perhaps Advanced Gunnery depending on the list.

Hyperspace assault isn't THAT scary with my very fast and maneuverable Demolisher, I just worry about losing 1-3 turns of shooting while "running" and turning back to engage in a position that isn't terrible. This is Ambush my bad

Hyperspace assault is scary with certain lists. Though I feel some lists I wouldn't mind allowing this objective.

Fire Lanes is bad as well, though I'd argue it's similar to Contested Outpost enough that I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if I picked it over two REALLY bad Red/Blue options.

Intel Sweep is, agreed, very bad for me too (as first player, and i'd never pick it as mine) as I don't want to wander around with my Glad, I wana fight. Dangerous Territory is the same, yet worse, since I have to take 2damage or a Face Up card to clear those, AND i'm wandering around not fighting.

So, worst case? Opening Salvo is prob worst red for me, so never pick. Fire Lanes is prob worst but really not that bad if I just kill him fast (exact same with Outpost), baring Hyperspace Assault against certain lists (prob a decent amount). That I know where the jump-points are is good enough for me counter their advantage enough that I might take it. Dangerous Territory I prob wouldn't pick...however, I might be inclined to concede the tokens and just blast the clowns non-objective ship to slag, since he has to (potentially) take a ship out of the fight to collect those tokens (same idea in Intel).

So really, I'm not too scared of many objectives. I'll take the penalties to empower my demolisher to land 3-4 massive hits on his biggest ship...a luxury I usually prefer to waive so that I can just punish my opponent for wanting/relying on first activation.