So, how strictly is this done, and in what way? Let me fabricate an example, for fun. In numerous OTHER sci-fi fantasy settings, or whatever else you might consider 40K, one or both parties of an interaction, say two people hammering out an accord, a contract, or a treaty, might have a telepath on hand, in order to sense deception, or maybe just to shift the balance in their favor, and abuse the situation. In 40K, though, I'm not sure how common this might be.

At one time, I posited a quandary about how one might go about "acquiring" a psyker. Sure, as a Rogue Trader, you might have easy access to astropaths, compared to other people, but astropaths LOOK a bit unique. Most are damaged, a bit, withered, and without eyes, and much like certain people throughout history have been forced to do, I often imagine astropaths of all stripes wearing hooded, green robes, or something else to announce "hey! This is a psyker!" If I'm a snazzy Rogue Trader, going to a classy party on Scintilla, I might want someone more presentable; someone who can look nice on my arm, or just behind my right shoulder, depending on whom, and possibly someone who does NOT advertise their gift, but uses it while we mingle, to advantage me. I'm still not entirely sure how one might get this asset, whether they pick up a unit of IG, and "reassign" a primaris psyker to other duties (not sure if the requisite accompanying Commissar, or Commander, would *****, and I'd need a whole group of troops), or send quiet feelers into the communities of, say Footfall, as an endeavor, like any other effort to find something cold trade-equivalent. Maybe a high-ranking somebody has a child who shows signs, but doesn't want to send them off to the Black Ships, where they'll die, or, barring that, be crushed, broken, and abused. Aboard your ship, however, they might still live a fine life, and if you have the right resources, they'll still be monitored by others who've been sanctioned, or maybe not.

At this point, however, I'm willing to look past that, and get to this point. Say I'm Hadarak Fel, going to a shindig on Scintilla, or maybe Damaris. As we arrive, I order Lady Ash to go get made up, and she strikes a rather fine figure; no lifeless eyes, no hunched form, or mumbling weird messages. She can dance, walk around, and read minds of numerous guests, collecting intel for Fel. How likely is this to work? Barring Inquisitors, do many other people keep such psykers around, feeling for this? Blanks are rare as hell, so I doubt too many have those. Are these astropaths, and so obvious, or did they acquire some other designation of psyker that, being 40k, and thus a war simulator, we never hear about, due to the lack of social stuff?

Has anyone else ever had a more unobtrusive psyker on pay, for such exercises as these? Any details about them?

The problem I see with this is that while Psykers themselves can be subtle, the use of Psychic Abilities rarely is. Even on very simple rolls, there's always a chance of causing Psychic Phenomena and many of them are very visible to the people around the psycher. This would somewhat limit the utility of this kind of plan.

As Quicksilver says in the 40k-verse psykers are overt rather than subtle. I would potentially allow a weirdling who only has one type of psychic ability and it is one that they use unconsciously rather than choose to use to go undetected but then people like that would be near impossible to hire for their psychic powers as they don't even know they have them.

So while I might say there are wierdlings who can pick up surface emotions (but not read minds) mechanically they'd just get a +10 bonus to fellowship tests when interacting with someone in their immediate vicinity (rather than say talking to them over a micro-bead). Given that that would be the case I would suggest just hiring someone who is an expert in reading people's subtext and body language and doing research on potential guests so you have an idea what their agendas might be before you arrive. You could also plant bugs, hire spies and that sort of thing.

The other danger in 40k is that a psyker who isn't advertising themselves as a psyker is giving up a lot of what protects them when they deal with the warp. Those muttered chants and obscure rituals strengthen the psyker's resolve to withstand the rigors of manipulating the warp. Without them if they tried to read someone who had some sort of lingering warp traces from their most recent trip then there could be dire consequences.

Sad face. I was sort of hoping that, if you procured one who was rather strong, and looking to benefit from your protection, and resources, they might be able to frequently fetter, and just skip phenomena, while making some skill check, not sure which, to just look like they are doing something else, while they scan the room, or sit in on negotiations. Oh well, can't have everything we want, can we?

It's rare but what isn't with RTs? Imperials don't much care for witches, especially not t fancy parties and business meetings but they can always find a way in. A psyker who either passes for a normal guess, goes unnoticed entirely, or who couldn't be be refused. Whether they were fairly obvious astropaths, ostensibly there to be a man shaped fax machine to the very important RT. A friendly Inquisitor who a common goal who could be discrete or flashing the rosette for all to see. They could be an unsanctioned sorcerer that passes as another member of your overgrown retinue. Or someone hiding in the vents or otherwise invisible.

Now there's a number of considerations. Imperial society isn't dominated by people using pet psykers to manipulate others, so when are they used, how are they countered, and how effective are they? Narratively I have it where most events are not even considering psyker related security. For the few that do, there are plenty of ways to beat or bypass it (very few have the gall to bar an Inquisitor for example, psyker or not). Occasionally people who are weary will do meetings in areas warded against psykers or with tame psykers who they trust(ish) or if they are rivals then they all bring pet psykers to keep each other honest.

I've had players and NPCs do it, either to protect their own mind or to read another's. The last time was when taking a loan from Krin. They caught the Krin loan officer trying to take a sneak peak at their mind using a psyker in the next room. The Krin psyker was trying to passively read their minds at fettered. With enough degrees of success they gleam quite a bit, and they were at fettered so worst case they get no info. The players expected this, brought a friendly sanctioned psyker making psyniscience tests who raised a stink claiming they were clearing trying to mind control the rogue trader. The officer fearful for his body and soul apologized profusely insisting it was a mistake. And the players' ruse was not uncovered.

I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible. There's rules for it with Min Probe in the BC core book. Page 224.

It takes five rounds of sustained effort to completely probe the mind of an individual. It requires a Focus Power Test, opposed by the target’s Willpower Test, each round the power is sustained, with the same modifi ers as the initial test to use the power (though there is no chance of Psychic Phenomena for any round after the fi rst). If the psyker wins the Focus Power Test, he gleans information from the target’s mind, depending on how long he has successfully maintained the power. If the psyker fails the Focus Power Test, he is ejected from the target’s mind, unable to dig any deeper, and the power’s effects end. However, the psyker retains any knowledge he has already gained from the power’s use up until that point. A psyker can attempt to perform this power subtly, preventing the target from knowing that his mind has been infi ltrated. This changes the Focus Power Test to a Hard (–20) Opposed Willpower Test, and the power may only be used at

the Fettered power level.

The description is of course a fair bit longer, including XP values, and a table showing what you learn on each level. But I think that quote shows that it's almost certainly what you're looking for. I personally let my PCs mix and match psyker powers refluffing them as necessary from the various bigs, but that might be because I haven't had anyone flip gameplay balance on its head yet doing so. All the same it's fun for seeing weird little powers like this to give to NPCs and such at the very least. BC in particular has a ton of powers spread through the gameline.

Edit: As far as your source of tame psykers. Barring calling in favors from Inquisitors, or having an exceptionally spry looking astropath. You can get an unsanctioned psyker, or you can get a normal looking, non muttering, sanctioned psyker. In a few of the books I've read people of wealth and means have them on staff, and not just Inquisitors. They're expensive, especially one that's not constantly chanting about the specters of death, knows how to read minds, AND is sanctioned. People like that are a hotly desired commodity, but , so are plasma pistols. I'd make them acquirable to players, unless it's an element you don't care for(which clearly doesn't apply with you), though how acquirable is a separate discussion.

I don't see a huge problem with this, as long it's kept within bounds. Seasoned psykers can probe efficiently and subtly, though with a chance of detection. They won't pull it off while dancing, but their target might be dancing. I'd think a Rogue Trader soiree might very well have psykers in place to see that this kind of shenanigan isn't commonplace. People that could pull it off would be extremely rare, while those that can prevent, or at least detect it, would be less rare.

The way I read it, Sanctioned Psykers are not that uncommonly found serving with the upper nobility. (Of which the RT is at least Ostensibly a member.) The type of Psyker you are referring to is more likely a Sanctionite as found among Inquisitors acolytes. These are most likely Diviners and telepaths rather than battle Psykers one finds in the IG. This is because the former types are of FAR more use in a courtly setting or monitoring negotiations than the the battle psyker. Since a Sanctioned Psyker's life in the Imperium is only about a half step away from slavery, it certainly makes sense that the nobility would have access to them as the (Admittedly very rare) commodity they are!

I personally feel that the use of Psykers in very high level negotiations is probably a fairly common practice even if it is not overtly advertised! Woe betide the Noble who is too stupid to realise there might be a Psyker "Listening in on them and not take precautions. These could include anything from dragging along your own mind linked psyker to monitor things, to null chambers right up to and including dragging your own pet untouchable into the room with you!

Yeah what they said. I think it's relatively common so it's an option for PCs. An option that has its own problems and limitations, and is for a few reasons not a story breaker. I imagine that detecting it is rather simple for a lot of psykers, so it'll be hard to get away with if they're expecting it. But honestly, I imagine that most aren't. Even if they haven't taken any steps against it, it's not exactly the most common skill set in the world, and getting more than a very minor glance is far from assured if you're trying to be subtle. You need to beat them in contest WP tests twice at -20 at fettered, to start getting somewhat useful information.

So let's say it's an okay NPC or low level PC. PR 4 like 38 WP. Versus random noble jerk like 27WP. That is 28 vs 27 all things considered, and you gotta beat him twice to learn anything cooler than his name. If you get a badass psyker awesome, if the okay one makes their rolls great. Information gained with them none the wiser. But it's far from certain.

And don't forget that at a RT soiree there's likely to be some Navis House attendants, and those might have psyker Detect & Destroy powers. These would be even more rare than psykers, themselves, but they'd be concentrated at such events.

I think part of the problem is that while Psykers are not ultra-rare, Psykers of any power are. Psykers below Delta-level can't really get above the game's Psyker level 1, which isn't enough to do anything fettered. (this includes the vast majority of Sanctioned Psykers and Astropaths) Detla-levels are 1-in-billion, meaning whole 25 were harvested off Scintilla this generation.

Of those 25, a good portion are going to be killed because they're unable to control or stabilize their powers. Then you've got the portion being trained as Inquisitors and/or acolytes, the portion given to the Militarum for Primus Psykers, the handful that fall through the cracks to become Astropath Transcendents, etc.

So, the number of people who would be able to acquire the services of a psyker of sufficient power to actually perform a fettered mind probe perhaps 1 per hive planet.

The other side (detection), however, is much more likely. Detecting the use of a Psychic Power is a psy-sense check. Everyone with psychic ability has access to this skill, as well as groups like the entirely of Footfall. Someone who regularly deals with groups like the Inquisition or Rogue Traders (who often run with particularly powerful astro telepath s) could potentially invest in an Epsilon or even Iota level psyker just to use psy-sense to advise the their employers if someone is using a power in the room.

My personal opinion is that powerful, subtle psykers are the purview of the Chaos gods and the foul xenos. I can imagine many a middling psyker or mutant getting gifts that mask their powers or make them more subtle in order to grow the cult of chaos.

Imperial humans (or at least those not actively worshiping chaos) can have powerful psychic powers but they are rarely subtle. They often take an action to achieve meaning they can't do much else at the same time and the way they use their powers (chanting, concentration use of talismans etc...) should be fairly obvious to people powerful enough to interact with Rogue Traders socially.

That give a serious option for bluffing about psychic powers however, Interrogating someone with a blindfolded old man chanting in the background might cause an Imperial noble to really sweat about what that Astropath might be prying from their mind.

At the social function venkelos describes it might be worth using misdirection, taking someone who looks and acts very much like an Imperial psyker to the party (In case my ship needs to contact me) to keep all eyes and attention on the fake psyker while another more subtle agent engages in a more circumspect form of information gathering.

Added bonus if any of the guests have a means of detecting or rebuffing psykers then they may well be impressed with the fake psyker's ability to go undetected.

This topic brings up a good scenario (ADVENTURE) idea...

Say someones been naughty and decided to experiment with say criminals in order to create a "new" stable gene that enables said mutant to sniff out psykers - in the same vein as the Dog Boys from Rifts (Palladium Publishing - Coalition Faction)...

Suddenly a Psyker based faction discovers this and calls in the Players as the only available "gray" option (ahem we are Rogue Traders willing and able) in order to quell this new threat on the hozion, now go kill and destroy the experiment!

Stay GAMING

Morbid

I think when it comes to PR that's something that's definitely YMMV. The vast majority of psykers who cannot control themselves, don't generally come up in play. Most PCs are able to go over 1, unless they choose otherwise. By intentionally playing a weak undocumented psyker. The same is true of stated NPCs, though both can be written off as powered by plot. It's a question of interpretation, in the setting, in the rules, and in plot contrivance.

Like how many astropaths are on a cruiser? Is it 1 or 12? What's the PR breakdown? Is it a bunch of 1s with a couple 2s and a 4 if you're lucky? Most PR1 psykers will never go further than that, but is it simply impossible, or a matter of training technique and dedication? What's the tipping point population wise before a planet reliably gets an astropath? How does the psyker rankings translate to PR, a Delta can read thousands of minds at once, an alpha can crush a battle titan? Do you personally care about the ratings, and does it matter when it comes to gameplay? Where do you acquire sanctioned psykers? Clearly you can, but what does that entail? That's all not touching on what those characters can do. Basically every weak psyker can roll to detect trickery afoot, but among somewhat powerful psykers how many of them bothered with mind probe. I think most or at least a lot of psykers can read surface thoughts, but that's a bit of a leap to mind probing. Is it hard to learn in the setting? Is it something any rando PR1 can probably learn given enough time? That makes capture by any sufficiently funded organisation an even bigger problem. Even a weak psyker is eventually going to crack open your mind if you give them a few weeks and you're tied to a chair getting beat on by some thugs.

I dunno. At my table, almost every voidship has at least one astropath, and most have more than one. The vast majority of which are at or under 2 PR. They have a few abilities beyond their job description, they're all telepaths of various talents. One of them being a PR 3 and having Mind Probe trained isn't much of a stretch, and if it was I'd just make them either make an acquisition roll or go on an adventure for it . "Let's reclaim these psykers in transit to the blackships, the men who have them misfiled the paperwork, they are clearly traitors up to no good. As a reward for our heroism we shall help ourselves to the best psykers, and as a favor to the Inqusition execute the weak ones ourselves. Now put on your masks, we sadly cannot take credit for this heroic deed."

Acquisition being set up how it is, getting your dirty mitts on a platoon of storm troopers, a famed relic of an inferno pistol, a crate of bolters, or even a smallish ship isn't a big deal for the wealthy. I don't think what would qualify as a low level Black Crusade character is too out there for space trillionaires. Your average merchant prince probably doesn't have someone who can do it, but your average character in universe uses stub or las weapons because they're comfortable and the vast majority of people they shoot aren't in carapace armor and better. And it's not out of the question, just unusual. Chalk it up to plot contrivance. Again that's just my table, the fluff can as usual support any extreme on this subject. From PR 4 psykers being so rare that most rogue traders never see them, and most ships being without an astropath. To major crime syndicates having talented psykers in their ranks at a somewhat startling rate(ie whenever the GM wants to scare his players "This narco thug fired HOW many bolts?").

IM40KU, most ships do not have astropaths, and an Astropath Transcendant is a rare sight. Even most RT Dynasties don't have a Transcendant, and even the Winterscale Dynasty probably doesn't have more than 2-3. Then again, I run a very dark, but toned-down galaxy.

Once again, IM40KU, Astropathic Relays (Core p. 163) are part of the Astropathic Choir Chambers component (ItS p. 160). Imperial Navy capital ships and Rogue Trader Dynasties do tend to carry multiple astropaths and often as many as 10-15, especially when voyaging far from the Imperium's borders. As you suggested, though, most of those astropaths are PR 1 and will never go beyond that. Why doesn't come into play.

Without an Astropathic Relay, having a Choir is pointless. A dozen PR 1 standard astropaths still can't get a message to the next star system, so what's the point of having any at all?

Yeah, that's a pretty reasonable way to bounce on the psyker spectrum. One that bumps up the acquisition availability a bit. But still like you said, social events with lots of heavy hitters are going to have a disproportionate amount of psykers in addition to other unusual sorts. Just don't have every 2 bit merchant keeping one on hand to keep things honest. Though maybe he keeps some sort of item he believes wards him against sorcery..

IM40KU, most ships do not have astropaths, and an Astropath Transcendant is a rare sight. Even most RT Dynasties don't have a Transcendant, and even the Winterscale Dynasty probably doesn't have more than 2-3. Then again, I run a very dark, but toned-down galaxy.

Once again, IM40KU, Astropathic Relays (Core p. 163) are part of the Astropathic Choir Chambers component (ItS p. 160). Imperial Navy capital ships and Rogue Trader Dynasties do tend to carry multiple astropaths and often as many as 10-15, especially when voyaging far from the Imperium's borders. As you suggested, though, most of those astropaths are PR 1 and will never go beyond that. Why doesn't come into play.

Without an Astropathic Relay, having a Choir is pointless. A dozen PR 1 standard astropaths still can't get a message to the next star system, so what's the point of having any at all?

So, how does your dynasty stay in contact with their assorted, far-ranged assets? There is NO subspace/hyperspace communications in most variants of 40K; I'm not even sure how the Tau function on an empire level, or ever will, if they believe they'll ever scale to the size of the Imperium. Without an astropath aboard ship, the players/crew would never know about potential endeavors, or that a misfortune had struck their distant trade route, or whatever. If their ship became stranded, they'd be screwed. One must assume that your players have some unmentioned thing that makes me wrong, or that they are tougher, and never get into tight spots. How do they manage? One might not think of an astropath as as important to the ship as a navigator, say, but I see them as both integrally important to the continued operation of a ship out in the void.

IM40KU, most ships do not have astropaths, and an Astropath Transcendant is a rare sight. Even most RT Dynasties don't have a Transcendant, and even the Winterscale Dynasty probably doesn't have more than 2-3. Then again, I run a very dark, but toned-down galaxy.

Once again, IM40KU, Astropathic Relays (Core p. 163) are part of the Astropathic Choir Chambers component (ItS p. 160). Imperial Navy capital ships and Rogue Trader Dynasties do tend to carry multiple astropaths and often as many as 10-15, especially when voyaging far from the Imperium's borders. As you suggested, though, most of those astropaths are PR 1 and will never go beyond that. Why doesn't come into play.

Without an Astropathic Relay, having a Choir is pointless. A dozen PR 1 standard astropaths still can't get a message to the next star system, so what's the point of having any at all?

So, how does your dynasty stay in contact with their assorted, far-ranged assets? There is NO subspace/hyperspace communications in most variants of 40K; I'm not even sure how the Tau function on an empire level, or ever will, if they believe they'll ever scale to the size of the Imperium. Without an astropath aboard ship, the players/crew would never know about potential endeavors, or that a misfortune had struck their distant trade route, or whatever. If their ship became stranded, they'd be screwed. One must assume that your players have some unmentioned thing that makes me wrong, or that they are tougher, and never get into tight spots. How do they manage? One might not think of an astropath as as important to the ship as a navigator, say, but I see them as both integrally important to the continued operation of a ship out in the void.

Well, we are still early in this campaign. One of the players is an Astropath Transendant. The ship started with an Astropathic Choir Chambers. Every PC gets to draw up 40 NPCs, from which they draw their relief, their family, and their bodyguard. The Astropath player didn't draw up family and went short on bodyguard to bring along extra extra astropaths. He has said he will be using Acquisition checks for more Astropaths and Astropathic Relays, so that any colonies established will also be in the chain of communications. It's not all that difficult. It's just another detail in the Acquisition checks.

That makes sense. An extra expense, something that is actively dealt with rather than assumed when the players say "We do the buy to make it a colony," like years of corpse starch rations are.

My colonization rules are still a work in progress, but they are more detailed than a simple Endeavor with a few acquisitions checks, yet they aren't as detailed as Stars of Inequity, though somewhat based on those rules. I prefer something between those 2 extremes. I use colony stats of Population, Agriculture, Mining, and Industry, though the major determinants of colony success are the government and frequency of commerce. Endeavor components include acquiring infrastructure and colonists, infrastructure depending on planetary environment - the more harsh the more infrastructure required the less room for actual colonists. Once again, it allows me to keep the scope and scale of the game at a more reasonable level. I like 1-in-a-billion psykers, and few enough of them in the Expanse.

... are 1-in-billion, meaning whole 25 were harvested off Scintilla this generation.

This is getting seriously off-topic, but you really can't trust those numbers . The population of Scintilla is most likely in the Trillion-range, not 25 Billion. Which would result in a few thousand psykers rather than just 25. Still rare, though, but at least now there's a few for most of the noble houses, various branches of gov't and still a few left over for battlefield duty.

Yeah, good conversations generate digressions. The Father of (Western) History is Herodotus, who supposedly wrote 44 books on history, of which we still have 9 (or 1 depending on your source) and some remaining fragments. He began his first book with a digression of why it's important to write about history. How's that for a digression?

The OP was about the "how" of detecting psykers, which led to a discussion of how common they are, which led to a discussion of numbers of psykers, which led to a discussion about logistics, and what it takes to support a psyker population, which led to a discussion on how to possibly limit that, given that the numbers were getting out of hand.

I love it.

"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."

-Robert H. Barrow, Commandant USMC

... are 1-in-billion, meaning whole 25 were harvested off Scintilla this generation.

This is getting seriously off-topic, but you really can't trust those numbers . The population of Scintilla is most likely in the Trillion-range, not 25 Billion. Which would result in a few thousand psykers rather than just 25. Still rare, though, but at least now there's a few for most of the noble houses, various branches of gov't and still a few left over for battlefield duty.

Eh, depends whether you prefer assuming the population or the hive size was incorrect. I tend to assume Scintilla doesn't have a vastly larger hive than Armageddon, Necromunda or Mars. In any case, the ratio is the same, so if you increase the number of psykers harvested from Scintilla (remembering that they all end up on black ships to be tested/cleared/etc. before being distributed to duties) your also increasing the number of people who would want one.

"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."

-Robert H. Barrow, Commandant USMC

Interestingly enough, this seems to be where much of Imperial technology shines (and some fails utterly). The lasgun, in particular, seems to be designed from the ground up for logistics.

Yep, it works well on people, the Imperium's primary targets, almost every Forge World knows how to build SOMETHING they'll refer to as a "lasgun", in vast numbers, it's simple to use, durable, and easy to keep loaded, compared to numerous weapons with spent shells, different calibers, what have you. You can certainly find flaws with the venerated laser pointer, but it also does maintain a large quantity of good points, and in the hands of the limitless masses of men and women that is the Imperial Guard's key strength; numbers.