In the SW:EotE game I'm in right now, my Chiss is heading towards being a Cipher Agent. In previous conversations, it was suggested that I just do the Infiltartor tree and be done with it. I felt that didn't work real well considering the Cipher Agent gets such intense training, they'd be above a simply spy.

So the GM and I worked on this and consulted our group for a bit of fine tuning. Looking to the community for some feedback, pros/cons, things like that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2uMUByu4mYidlZTQzdLYU05eHM/view?usp=sharing

Thanks.

It's wildly OP. There is essentially no reason in your game to take any other combat spec.

Dear god, there's no way that I would allow that within a hundred miles of my table. Yes, within any group there will always be characters that are better at combat than the the others, but anything that I could throw at this character to challenge him would have to be so all-powerful that it would utterly destroy the rest of the characters.

It's pretty much the "Soft spot" talents that get me. Lets say you have an average 3 cunning, which gets turned into a 6 for 30 points. From there, it's a short hop to ignoring all the target's soak (plus for another 20-ish points, you can be dishing out criticals like mad). That's crazy overpowered.

Huh, I guess we didn't think it was THAT badly overpowered. :-(

Holy Overpowered Talent Tree, Batman!

I'm gonna have to agree with the Pirate and the Penguin. It's very much "too good."

Better to simulate the "intense training" with a decent amount of XP (training = experience) and create a Knight Level character. That way, you can dip into the specs you feel best suit the character (for example, Infiltrator/Recruit/Gunslinger) and still have some options for talents and skills.

Your skills are to specific/good. A universal tree can offer them as a Talent upgrade but not right off. Skills should be Athletics, Coordination, and a couple Knowledges.

Improved/Supreme Soft Spot, way, way too good, they're nuked.

Soft Spot goes to 25 xp and no direct xp path.

Same goes for Contingency Plan, Right/Wrong Time, all nuked.

Unorthodox Method make once per session and drop the Strain bill.

Remove Sorry About the Mess.

Can't have both Dynamic Fire and Creative Killer, pick one.

Insert a couple Toughness, maybe a rank of Enduring, and something like Second Wind or Resolve to fill holes.

Flubbh?

Overpowered doesn't really cover it. This is borderline silly.

I'd go back to the drawing board. Rethink it completely.

Can't have both Dynamic Fire and Creative Killer, pick one.

I would probably pitch the two crit boost talents over the side and go with just Dynamic Fire instead. That one doesn't seem to terribly unbalancing. Contingency Plan might be okay if you made it once a session, not once an encounter - and moved it to the 25 point tier.

Yoiks...

In previous conversations, it was suggested that I just do the Infiltartor tree and be done with it. I felt that didn't work real well considering the Cipher Agent gets such intense training, they'd be above a simply spy.

That's not talent trees, that's XP spent. By nature of being a Player Character you are already above the Rival level character that would be a "Simple Spy."

Spend your XP on Infiltrator and Assassin (and maybe Recruit if you need to, but I don't think you will) and I'm sure you'll get to where you want to be.

Can't have both Dynamic Fire and Creative Killer, pick one.

I would probably pitch the two crit boost talents over the side and go with just Dynamic Fire instead. That one doesn't seem to terribly unbalancing. Contingency Plan might be okay if you made it once a session, not once an encounter - and moved it to the 25 point tier.

My issue with Contingency Plan is it steps on the Talents of Gambler and sig abilities of Smuggler too much I think with picking a negative die to re-roll, it's not appropriate in a universal spec.

I just wanted to thank the comments thus far, all the feedback is very much appreciated. Also I wanted to note two things:

1) I made a mistake in that Improved Soft Spot should actually read "Spend 2 strain instead of 1 Destiny" (I saved prior to fixing that, sorry)

2) Not all of this is home brew, it is a mixture of home brewed content and content straight from the books which are obviously copyright protected by FFG

@Desslok, Contingency Plan is once/session

@2P51, we really liked Contingency Plan, how might you change it to be more appropriate? Or would you nix completely?

Unorthodox Method, update to once/session rather than encounter. Ok, I could see that.

Insert a couple Toughness, maybe a rank of Enduring, and something like Second Wind or Resolve to fill holes.- That's good advice. Thanks.

I just wanted to thank the comments thus far, all the feedback is very much appreciated. Also I wanted to note two things:

1) I made a mistake in that Improved Soft Spot should actually read "Spend 2 strain instead of 1 Destiny" (I saved prior to fixing that, sorry)

2) Not all of this is home brew, it is a mixture of home brewed content and content straight from the books which are obviously copyright protected by FFG

@Desslok, Contingency Plan is once/session

@2P51, we really liked Contingency Plan, how might you change it to be more appropriate? Or would you nix completely?

Unorthodox Method, update to once/session rather than encounter. Ok, I could see that.

Insert a couple Toughness, maybe a rank of Enduring, and something like Second Wind or Resolve to fill holes.- That's good advice. Thanks.

There is no fix to Improved/Supreme Soft Spot, they are just flat out OP.

You have rammed the signature Talents of several combat specs into one universal tree, just on it's face that is OP.

Contingency Plan is too much like what a Gambler spec and/or Smuggler with Sig Abilities can do. It's not appropriate in a universal tree, and it's wildly OP for so few xp.

I think you're just wanting a far more advanced character more quickly. You should and your GM should just discuss an xp boost, larger session xp payouts, and waiving additional spec xp costs if you simply want a more advanced PC more quickly. Then at least you're using Talents and Skills in the specs they are balanced in the game for. This spec essentially creates an end game combat character.

I just wanted to thank the comments thus far, all the feedback is very much appreciated. Also I wanted to note two things:

1) I made a mistake in that Improved Soft Spot should actually read "Spend 2 strain instead of 1 Destiny" (I saved prior to fixing that, sorry)

2) Not all of this is home brew, it is a mixture of home brewed content and content straight from the books which are obviously copyright protected by FFG

@Desslok, Contingency Plan is once/session

@2P51, we really liked Contingency Plan, how might you change it to be more appropriate? Or would you nix completely?

Unorthodox Method, update to once/session rather than encounter. Ok, I could see that.

Insert a couple Toughness, maybe a rank of Enduring, and something like Second Wind or Resolve to fill holes.- That's good advice. Thanks.

I think you're just wanting a far more advanced character more quickly. You should and your GM should just discuss an xp boost, larger session xp payouts, and waiving additional spec xp costs if you simply want a more advanced PC more quickly. Then at least you're using Talents and Skills in the specs they are balanced in the game for. This spec essentially creates an end game combat character.

That's a really great suggestion. I'll run it past the GM and see how we go. Thank you everyone for the input!!!

What do you expect the average Cipher to do? That will help us narrow down its focus.

I guess, I'm also confused on what a cipher is. I had thought they encrypt and decrypt codes, but this tree makes it look like they're highly skilled assassins.

Everyone has some excellent suggestions, but I'll add a few general pieces of advice. You obviously intend for the average cipher to rely on cunning. Practically every other talent benefits from just that one characteristic. This tree makes the game easy mode by allowing the PC to just focus on Cunning. Spread the love to the other skills. There's opportunity in this tree to encourage the player to invest in intellect and agility as well. I'll also agree that 70% of this tree is full of what should be bottom-tier talents. Find talents equivalent to the ones you are homebrewing and see where they typically lie in other tiers. If they're ranked, look at how many ranks are available in that tree and overall.

Cipher Agents are the rank of the Imperial agent class in the The Old Republic MMO. It's the Imperial Intelligence version of 007.

So doing what 007 does seems a good summing up of what the OP expects the character to be doing.

Cipher Agents are the rank of the Imperial agent class in the The Old Republic MMO. It's the Imperial Intelligence version of 007.

So doing what 007 does seems a good summing up of what the OP expects the character to be doing.

That's helpful. Putting that into context of the game, somebody who is a "00" is going to have several trees under their belt. Sounds like what the OP wants is a combo of Infiltrator + a combat spec + maybe a techie spec. That's a lot of XP, but that would suit the kind of well-rounded capabilities a 00 would be expected to possess. Training takes time...

I'm going to have to agree with everyone here. If you want a 007-style character, you're going to have to take multiple specializations.

It would be okay, I think, to create a tree that had more than one focus, as long as you didn't just take high-end abilities and stack the whole talent tree with them. I'd definitely borrow from the Infiltrator, Slicer, and maybe Assassin, with only a couple unique/custom talents.

I'm going to have to agree with everyone here. If you want a 007-style character, you're going to have to take multiple specializations.

It would be okay, I think, to create a tree that had more than one focus, as long as you didn't just take high-end abilities and stack the whole talent tree with them. I'd definitely borrow from the Infiltrator, Slicer, and maybe Assassin, with only a couple unique/custom talents.

I agree. The only advise I would add is that if you do a half-and-half specialization, is that one half is not uniformly better than the entirely of the talent tree it was borrowed from.

Having not played the Agent story arc yet, I'm forced to use Bond as a template instead.

Okay, what does 007 have in his bag of tricks. Crazy amounts of random knowledge (like being able to identify flowers from the rain forest as well as he can detect wine vintages), smooth with the ladies, good at ranged and hand-to-hand combat, can drive all manner of vehicles (Speed boats? Mini-subs? Sports cars? Space shuttles? Bond's your man!) and reasonably tech-savvy (being able to defuse bombs, identify and remove computer components and the like). Plus there's the sneaking and security systems skillsets.

Man, this is going to be expensive.

I would probably start with the Spy: Infiltrator for our sneaky and stealthy portion of the character, and then pick up Spy: Slicer for technical skills. That's a pretty solid base. I then might drop the points and pick up Recruit - Bond was a Commander, after all. Plus they'll cover some of the combat areas we're lacking and get us rounded in the skills.

So, we need some charm and talking skills. I'd probably jump over to the Smuggler: Charmer tree for all our Bed the Women skills. I'd round the character out with Colonist: Scholar for all your wine tasting and orchid identifying needs.

And then it's just a matter of identifying the character concept and figuring out what career to start with and what Signature Abilities you get. The Colonist's Unmatched Expertise is very strong indeed, but I have to admit that the Narrow Escape is a very Bond-like talent. And of course we have no idea what the Spy's special abilities are - that very well might be the starting career of choice.

So, there you go - 007 for 140 points.

I would start in the Spy career for flavor alone.

However, there's something to be said for the Commander Career. Check it out:

Starting as a Commander: Commodore. Taking my free skill ranks in Cool, Perception, Ranged (Light), Vigilance, Knowledge (Education), Computers. Free human ranks in Brawl and Athletics...but you can just as easily nab Charm, Deception, or Mechanics.

When spending XP, I'll up his Agility, Willpower, and Presence. Now he's a decent hand at shooting and driving, most social endeavors, and initiative checks. The first, third, and fourth columns of talents on the Commodore talent tree seem very agent-like to me, so I can take these at my leisure, but start with (at least) Rapid Reaction and beeline the Dedication talent for a bump to Brawn or Intellect, picking up (essentially) two free successes to every initiative check I make along the way. I'll include that entire column in my build, grabbing a rank in Intellect for kicks.

The Squadron Leader Talent Tree is next. I can buy it for 20 XP, then spend 5 XP each to get a rank in both Piloting skills. Then I'll buy Defensive Driving, Quick Strike (to capitalize on his awesome Initiative checks), and Grit. Either path (to the left or the right) can be very beneficial to the character. This step is more Bond-inspired, so you can save up to 55 XP by skipping it. I'd suggest you put the 55 XP, if you have it, into more skill ranks.

Finally, the Tactician for 30 XP. Here I pick up Brawl as a career skill, so I can invest a little more XP in that, should I wish. But first, I'll start with Toughened, Sidestep, Swift, and Quick Draw.

So that's the build for 270 total XP...Knight Level +10. A 3 in Presence should be sufficient for the smooth personality that a Cipher agent should exude.

Anyway, I'm sure you could have a whole group of "Cipher Agents" with builds ranging from Spy to Bounty Hunter, to Diplomat, to Sentinel, with varying talents. For this reason alone, I'd advise against a highly specialized talent tree, since even the RAW "Specializations" (even though they are usually relatively focused in scope) aren't that specialized.

Okay, looking through the new AoR book, I think the Analyst would be a good fit for a James Bond clone. The Know It All talent sounds exactly what 007 would pull on Q during the equipment check out scenes.

Cipher Agents are the rank of the Imperial agent class in the The Old Republic MMO. It's the Imperial Intelligence version of 007.

So doing what 007 does seems a good summing up of what the OP expects the character to be doing.

That's helpful. Putting that into context of the game, somebody who is a "00" is going to have several trees under their belt. Sounds like what the OP wants is a combo of Infiltrator + a combat spec + maybe a techie spec. That's a lot of XP, but that would suit the kind of well-rounded capabilities a 00 would be expected to possess. Training takes time...

i think you could pull off a "right out of 00 school"-bond in one career. this might satisfy a player interested in that concept. the 007 we know has so much xp under his belt one career could never cover all those abilities.

think "jack of all trades", but remember that this means "master of none" as well.

put in a little bit of every area you want the character to be proficient with. just stay away from the really powerful talents. i think one of the top talents should deal with improvisation. no matter what seemingly inescapable circumstances bond finds himself in, he always finds a way to achieve his goals. not sure how that can be written into 1 talent without it being op again though.