Hi Guys,

When using the force power Move, do you have to spend one point to activate the power, and then additional points to increase the Magnitude (number targets), Strength (size of the objects) and the Range (distance away from the item moved)?

For example, if a character wanted to move two speeders (Silhouette 2) which were at medium range away from the character, would it cost a total of 7 points.

BREAKDOWN
1 (base) + 2 (magnitude) + 2 (strength) + 2 (range)

If the character had only bought one rank of each upgrade, then yes, 7 points. But if they had bought two or more ranks of each upgrade, then in your example it would be 4 points.

Less complicated example would be looking at Strength only. If the character buys one rank, after triggering the base power for one pip they can move a Sil1 object for 1 pip, or a Sil2 object for 2 pips, etc. If they buy two ranks, after triggering the base power for one pip they can move a Sil2 object for 1 pip, or a Sil4 object for 2 pips, etc. The other upgrades work the same.

Your above example would cost 7 pips if you had purchased only one rank each of Magnitude, Strength, and Range. If, however, you had purchased 2 ranks in each, it would only cost you 4.

Edit: Hehe, froggy ninjaed me with almost the exact same wording

That's not how I read it... I think I need to read it again...I'm so confused...

Here's an example:

Strength Upgrade: Spend [Force Point] to increase the maximum size of objects a character can move by a number equal to the number of Strength upgrades purchased

So it means that if you have 2 Strength Upgrades, one point spent gives the +2 to Silhouette size.

It's a lot like the Smooth Talker talent and a few other ranked talents. You spend 1 Triumph and you get extra Successes equal to Smooth Talker Ranks. So 1 Smooth Talker gives 1 Success per Triumph spent, 3 ranks gives 3 Successes per Triumph spent.

Hi Guys,

When using the force power Move, do you have to spend one point to activate the power, and then additional points to increase the Magnitude (number targets), Strength (size of the objects) and the Range (distance away from the item moved)?

For example, if a character wanted to move two speeders (Silhouette 2) which were at medium range away from the character, would it cost a total of 7 points.

BREAKDOWN

1 (base) + 2 (magnitude) + 2 (strength) + 2 (range)

Unfortunately, that's not possible with the Move power. The targets must be within short range of you at all times. The range upgrade increases the maximum range you may move something, but it still must start out at short range to you.

-EF

OK, so lets use Strength. In the Force and Destiny BETA it says:

Spend [ Force Point ] to increase the maximum size of objects a character can move by a number equal to the number of Strength upgrades purchased.

So lets say I have a character who has the basic power and a single Strength upgrade. The basic upgrade says Silhouette 0 for the expenditure of 1 Force Point. Now due to having the Strength upgrade, I can only increase the size of the object moves by one, as the maximum size of the object in this case would be Silhouette 1? My brain is starting to hurt.

Unfortunately, that's not possible with the Move power. The targets must be within short range of you at all times. The range upgrade increases the maximum range you may move something, but it still must start out at short range to you.

I believe that is incorrect, and has been confirmed by the developers. The X-Wing was hardly in short range when it was in the swamp.

Unfortunately, that's not possible with the Move power. The targets must be within short range of you at all times. The range upgrade increases the maximum range you may move something, but it still must start out at short range to you.

I believe that is incorrect, and has been confirmed by the developers. The X-Wing was hardly in short range when it was in the swamp.

I believe it is correct. If the dev was right, why was it not changed/corrected/errata'd in AoR or F&D? All three rule books say the same thing, so I believe the dev was mistaken—they're only human, so it happens.

And the X-wing was most definitely within short range. Short range is several meters, and the X-wing was not that far away.

-EF

Unfortunately, that's not possible with the Move power. The targets must be within short range of you at all times. The range upgrade increases the maximum range you may move something, but it still must start out at short range to you.

I believe that is incorrect, and has been confirmed by the developers. The X-Wing was hardly in short range when it was in the swamp.

just wanted to quote, not like.

the x-wing was definitely in short range.

i also disagree with eldritch fire, though. the way i read move, the target has to be within short range when you activate the power. it can then be moved up to the maximum range, which is also short as a default. if you buy range upgrades you can hit targets further away.

Unfortunately, that's not possible with the Move power. The targets must be within short range of you at all times. The range upgrade increases the maximum range you may move something, but it still must start out at short range to you.

I believe that is incorrect, and has been confirmed by the developers. The X-Wing was hardly in short range when it was in the swamp.

just wanted to quote, not like.

the x-wing was definitely in short range.

i also disagree with eldritch fire, though. the way i read move, the target has to be within short range when you activate the power. it can then be moved up to the maximum range, which is also short as a default. if you buy range upgrades you can hit targets further away.

Just note that the range upgrades say it only changes the maximum range you may move a target. The base power is still limited to short range to start.

Run it how you like, I just want everyone to know what the rules say before they change them, so the change can be an informed decision.

-EF

You are correct with the way its worded, I'm just going by what Sam Stewart has said, and the question that was asked is fairly clear.

What I think is unbalanced is that If you have generated 4 Force Pips, and you have the base power plus two range upgrades, two Strength upgrades and the first Control upgrade (total 50XP), you could effectively throw a YT-1300 to medium range and cause 40 points of damage (i.e. 1 [base] + 1 [+2 Silhouette] + 1 [+2 Silhouette] + 1 [+1 Range Band ]). You only need FR2 to do that. I personally think the balancing factor should be that you can only spend 1 Force Pip per upgrade type.

So even if maxed out (130XP - although forgetting the last two control upgrades), you could only affect 5 targets of Silhouette 4 to a range of Extreme. That's still impressive to say the least as you can still throw those objects and do 40 wounds each.

This is the concern ive been having in my other thread.

You are correct with the way its worded, I'm just going by what Sam Stewart has said, and the question that was asked is fairly clear.

What I think is unbalanced is that If you have generated 4 Force Pips, and you have the base power plus two range upgrades, two Strength upgrades and the first Control upgrade (total 50XP), you could effectively throw a YT-1300 to medium range and cause 40 points of damage (i.e. 1 [base] + 1 [+2 Silhouette] + 1 [+2 Silhouette] + 1 [+1 Range Band ]). You only need FR2 to do that. I personally think the balancing factor should be that you can only spend 1 Force Pip per upgrade type.

So even if maxed out (130XP - although forgetting the last two control upgrades), you could only affect 5 targets of Silhouette 4 to a range of Extreme. That's still impressive to say the least as you can still throw those objects and do 40 wounds each.

My problem with going by what Sam said is that he also said that manual repairs checks recover one hull trauma per success, "just like a medicine check." But the book says it's one HT point, plus one more per two successes. Just like his Move power "clarification" it's not how the rule is written, nor was the rule changed in any reprint or subsequent book. This leads me to believe that he was mistaken.

Just my opinion, though. And a minority one at that, it seems.

-EF

May I suggest asking him again, a point out the confusion his previous answer, the books, and the erratas are causing?

May I suggest asking him again, a point out the confusion his previous answer, the books, and the erratas are causing?

-EF

Good to know

OK, so lets use Strength. In the Force and Destiny BETA it says:

Spend [ Force Point ] to increase the maximum size of objects a character can move by a number equal to the number of Strength upgrades purchased.

So lets say I have a character who has the basic power and a single Strength upgrade. The basic upgrade says Silhouette 0 for the expenditure of 1 Force Point. Now due to having the Strength upgrade, I can only increase the size of the object moves by one, as the maximum size of the object in this case would be Silhouette 1? My brain is starting to hurt.

If you have a single Strength upgrade you trigger the base power (1 pip) and trigger the Strength upgrade (1 pip), so for 2 pips you can move a Sil1 object. But you can trigger the Strength upgrade multiple times, so if you had 3 pips you could move a Sil2 object.

Hi Guys,

When using the force power Move, do you have to spend one point to activate the power, and then additional points to increase the Magnitude (number targets), Strength (size of the objects) and the Range (distance away from the item moved)?

For example, if a character wanted to move two speeders (Silhouette 2) which were at medium range away from the character, would it cost a total of 7 points.

BREAKDOWN

1 (base) + 2 (magnitude) + 2 (strength) + 2 (range)

Unfortunately, that's not possible with the Move power. The targets must be within short range of you at all times. The range upgrade increases the maximum range you may move something, but it still must start out at short range to you.

-EF

I don't see the range issue as confusing. The upgrade increases the range "at which" the user can move objects not 'to which'. The upgrade increases "power's range" with the distance something is effected being part of 'the power' imo.

Hi Guys,

When using the force power Move, do you have to spend one point to activate the power, and then additional points to increase the Magnitude (number targets), Strength (size of the objects) and the Range (distance away from the item moved)?

For example, if a character wanted to move two speeders (Silhouette 2) which were at medium range away from the character, would it cost a total of 7 points.

BREAKDOWN

1 (base) + 2 (magnitude) + 2 (strength) + 2 (range)

Unfortunately, that's not possible with the Move power. The targets must be within short range of you at all times. The range upgrade increases the maximum range you may move something, but it still must start out at short range to you.

-EF

I don't see the range issue as confusing. The upgrade increases the range "at which" the user can move objects not 'to which'. The upgrade increases "power's range" with the distance something is effected being part of 'the power' imo.

yeah, that's probably correct. i can only explain my personal confusion.

the range at which the object can be when activating the power is fixed in the text, while it is implied by "default range" that there is a variable maximum rage to move it to. i still think you can read it that way. there should be one explicit default range for both starting- and endpoint, or simply one range band for both. there's no reason to present both ranges in a different way unless there was a difference.

Hi Guys,

When using the force power Move, do you have to spend one point to activate the power, and then additional points to increase the Magnitude (number targets), Strength (size of the objects) and the Range (distance away from the item moved)?

For example, if a character wanted to move two speeders (Silhouette 2) which were at medium range away from the character, would it cost a total of 7 points.

BREAKDOWN

1 (base) + 2 (magnitude) + 2 (strength) + 2 (range)

Unfortunately, that's not possible with the Move power. The targets must be within short range of you at all times. The range upgrade increases the maximum range you may move something, but it still must start out at short range to you.

-EF

I don't see the range issue as confusing. The upgrade increases the range "at which" the user can move objects not 'to which'. The upgrade increases "power's range" with the distance something is effected being part of 'the power' imo.

Except that's not how it's written. The range upgrade allows you to "pend [1 Force pip] to increase the maximum range at which the Force user can move objects…" (bold mine, CRB pages 284–285).

And the base power states that "[t]he user may spend [1 Force pip] to move one object of silhouette 0 that is within short range up to his maximum range. The default maximum range is short range" (CRB 283).

There are two different ranges in play: ​within short range is the range limit of how far it has to be to move it. The second is the maximum range, which defaults to short as well, but can be increased by the range upgrades.

So I agree that the range issue isn't confusing, it's just being misapplied. To me, the text is clear: you can only move objects within short range of you, but you can move it beyond short range with the range upgrades.

-EF

You're just reprinting what is written. Explain why doesn't the upgrade which says "maximum range at which" mean the distance a target can be influenced the user also increase to you?

You're just reprinting what is written. Explain why doesn't the upgrade which says "maximum range at which" mean the distance a target can be influenced the user also increase to you?

Because "maximum range" is a specific thing called out in the base power. The base power has two ranges that we need to consider: the target must be within short range, and it can be moved up to your maximum range. The first is a constant, it never changes. The object to be moved must always be within short range. The maximum range is the only range that is altered by the range upgrade.

Let:

x=short range

y=short range

z=the number of range upgrades you have purchased

You may move any object within x range of you up to y range for one pip. Spend one pip on range upgrade and you can now move any object within x range of you up to y+z range. Spend two pips and it's any object within x range of you up to y+(2z) range.

x and y are two separate and unique instances of a specified distance. Just because they start out the same doesn't mean they're always equal.

-EF

I don't see anything in the verbiage that says that the range can't be increased, just what the default max is to begin with. We have the rest of the tree and we have the lead game designer saying it does increase. That's good enough for me.

I don't see anything in the verbiage that says that the range can't be increased, just what the default max is to begin with. We have the rest of the tree and we have the lead game designer saying it does increase. That's good enough for me.

it's true, eldritch fire. join me in defeat!