For an article I'm writing about X-Wing, I looked up the world Championship lists from 2013. Here's what I noticed:

The list of the 2013 runner up:

Howlrunner + Stealth + Determination

Dark Curse

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

That's still a top tier list. There's not a single wasted point. The jousting values are incredible. You can run that list today and- if you're good enough to fly a 7 Tie Swarm- do quite well in any untimed tournament.

Here's the 2013 list flown by the number 1 player in the world:

Biggs

Dagger Squadron + Advanced Sensors

Dagger Squadron + Advanced Sensors

Rookie Pilot

Nope. No. Nuh-uh. That list is- by 2015 standards- totally nonoptimized. Even at the time the Jousting Value of that squad was below that of its opponent.

But flying well matters . A lot. People Remember that Paul Heaver's 2014 winning list was a Fat Falcon with R2D2 and C3P0. What they don't remember- or haven't watched- was his game-winning maneuvers. Here's a screen cap:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NsdHEKsKmqQCrtccZLW65awivXIaB4mFItZbGk-QXAM=w463-h308

(link provided because I can't embed the image without getting an error. )

(Watch the video here )

Fat Turrets fly differently than small ships. They fight differently than small ships. But they have their own set of problems and compromises. Flying them poorly will result in Bad Things. Had Heaver been ever so slightly off on his maneuvering, his ship would have been stuck on that rock: unable to fire with no actions, under the guns of a Phantom, and 4 Ties- one of which was a Howlrunner at Range 1 of the entire Imperial Squad. I don't think that's a healthy place for 61% of my fleet to be.

Good flying matters a lot. Good list building is heavily dependent on win conditions, but also matters a lot. And never go in against Paul Heaver when a championship is on the line.

Is Paul Heaver a Sicilian?

Maters?

Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line

Flying definitely matters a lot with Turrets. I've been practicing with Rear Admiral Cheerios and Soontir Fel for my local Regionals and being able to place my decimator precisely is essential to flying the list.

What some people don't like is the fact that turreted ships generally only have to worry about defensive maneuvering instead of both offense and defense like non-turreted ships. The turret will always have a shot even if it flies past you while facing away from you.

Turrets are here to stay.

Let's talk about their (turret primaries) downsides:

-They are a ton of points for only one attack

-They wither under focused fire due to low Agility and the fact that they are large bases

-They are easy to block due to having large bases.

The real reason that they are very competitive right now is the fact that MOV is all or nothing currently. You only get points for destroying ships, not for damaging them. If FFG implemented partial points scoring it would greatly reduce the points fortress advantage that the large turreted ships enjoy.

Fractional partial points scoring would be a huge headache for TO's and players alike. I think they should do a half and half partial points system. If you drop a ship down to less than half of its total hull and shields then you get half points for it.

The notion that skill is more important than netdecking is, in a word - inconceivable.

/sarcasm

The notion that skill is more important than netdecking is, in a word - inconceivable.

/sarcasm

Taters are pretty delicious too.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of what you are saying (even if I think the underlying secondary message is an oversimplification).

However, Paul Heaver said on Nova Squadron Radio that the maneuver you show he did not expect to go as far as it did. If it had been a mm closer, he probably would have selected the same maneuver thinking he had the room and been on the rock. It isn't exactly the shining example of maneuvering it is touted as.

Now the peanut gallery can get their feathers ruffled and act as if I just called the World Champ a bad pilot. I didn't. This particular maneuver just isn't the illustration of his skill that people make it out to be.

Edit: I'm going to add that even if he lands on the rock, it is still a good maneuver, just to try to make clear the point I'm getting at. ( avoiding Morgan's entire force and getting around him - good move). But like I said, it just isn't the "best maneuver ever in history OMG look at this he totally knew he could clear this rock by a mm can you believe it!?!"

I don't disagree with the sentiment of what you are saying (even if I think the underlying secondary message is an oversimplification).

However, Paul Heaver said on Nova Squadron Radio that the maneuver you show he did not expect to go as far as it did. If it had been a mm closer, he probably would have selected the same maneuver thinking he had the room and been on the rock. It isn't exactly the shining example of maneuvering it is touted as.

Now the peanut gallery can get their feathers ruffled and act as if I just called the World Champ a bad pilot. I didn't. This particular maneuver just isn't the illustration of his skill that people make it out to be.

A champ defending his title, after 20+ hours of playing successfully evades the entire force of fire... in the first round of combat. Its not that he's soo good he just KNEW it would work, no. His skill in harmony with his experience gave him the confidence he needed which many, many of us lack.

Paul knew much of the meta was switching to Fat Han to counter the Phantoms so he brought a Fat Han that counters other Fat Hans. I'm sure after losing to a Fat list with R2D2 crew at nationals made him realize the potential there and adapted it into his squad. Many of his friends were playing Fat Han so he brought there counter and still had a turret for Phantoms. With C3P0, R2D2, and the MF title, he knew late game another Han with gunner wouldn't be able to do enough damage to get through his defense.

Flying a turret is about minimising the fire you take. Funnily enough a high PS Fat turret's an arc dodger, or at least the YT variants are.

I'm sure after losing to a Fat list with R2D2 crew at nationals made him realize the potential there and adapted it into his squad.

You know, the funny thing about that is that the Forum Groupthink had put R2-D2 crew in the Fel's Wrath folder before that.

Right after Scum came out, I went to a store championship. The top seeded player after Swiss flew this:

Howlrunner with Hull and Determination

Two Black Squadron Pilots with Draw Their Fire

Four Academy Pilots

He went undefeated and lost only two ships all day (one Academy in game 3, and Howlrunner in game 4). He dropped after that, as he just wanted the focus tokens and wanted to give someone else a shot at the bye.

Two TIE fighters lost. TWO.

Taters are pretty delicious too.

What's taters, precious?

Taters are pretty delicious too.

What's taters, precious?

It's like pataters, without the pa!

Maters?

Two (or more) people who are in the process of mating?

To OP - TESTIFY Brother!

I don't want to say that lists don't matter. Build is important.

And their is a third factor, luck. This is a game with dice and sometimes they are nice and sometimes they are not so nice.

But of the three elements, build, luck and flying ability-- flying ability is THE MOST important.

When I come away from a game after a total defeat, I never feel like my opponents list was just better than mine. I always feel, either 1) He totally out-flew me or 2) I did deal well with the list he brought.

But this is why I love this game. Building lists is fun, but if that was all there was to the game, I would quickly get board.

Maters?

Lak 'tamaters', 'cept without the 'ta' part!

This is what I love about X Wing. Even though some ships aren't considered to be at the cutting edge of competitive play, I can still take those ships and I can still win matches because the difference between a good ship and a crappy ship is very slim and no matter what, flying always matters. It's not like 40K where if I take Strike Squads for my Grey Knights I'm effectively throwing the game.

I'm glad you feel that way. You support my feeling that ship with 360 turrets should only get +1 die at range 1 in primary arc.

Because flying is primary and this will force those ships to have to learn to fly and get people in their front arcs. No more skimming the battle field and firing at ships behind them on easy mode, not worrying about flying, since there is no reason tool(Easy Mode) and firing behind them getting +1 die at range 1. Even though the ship that is the target has flown better and outmaneuvered them to get there. It will mean ships with 360 primary turrets will be forced to fly better.

They can still do this, but unless their targets are in the front arc, they won't get the bonus +1 die at range 1. It makes sense.

The phantom nerf forced it and hopefully the 360 primary weapon nerf will force it too.

Let's face it! You said it yourself "Flying always maters!"