The meta will also shift as new releases come out? We've got a lot coming up in the next few months?

Unless R2-D2/3PO or the Tuskens drastically change the meta, which I am skeptical about given what they are, I don't think the Imperial list has much to worry about. The only hope is there is some sort of silver bullet command card/skirmish upgrade. Wookiees/HiredGuns/Stormies are a long way off, and again, I'm not sure they will be enough to dethrone the Empire without some sort of silver bullet.

The officer's days of cowering behind other figures for protection will come to an end.

Heavy troopers, tuskans, saska and boba all have ways of causing damage without defence dice being rolled.

The meta will be in a much healthier place once all the announced figures are out.

I didn't realise the problem was that Imperial Officers were too hard to kill.

I am not sure the problem is as bad as people think it is. I did win Chicago with Rebels and used a Elite Sab turn one to get the act lead vs higher act builds and get a good 3-4 blast attack off.

I think this early in the life of the game, it's a little premature to say anything is broken about how the game works. Sure, IO is super powerful right now, but I'm sure that things will alter in coming waves.

I think this early in the life of the game, it's a little premature to say anything is broken about how the game works. Sure, IO is super powerful right now, but I'm sure that things will alter in coming waves.

I agree.

Has anyone had any luck with differing builds that combat the 4xIO strategy?

I think this early in the life of the game, it's a little premature to say anything is broken about how the game works. Sure, IO is super powerful right now, but I'm sure that things will alter in coming waves.

I agree.

Has anyone had any luck with differing builds that combat the 4xIO strategy?

I know I haven't and I have tried several Rebel and Scum lists, easily over 10 different lists over 30+ games. The only thing that beats Imperial consistently in my experience is other Imperial lists using similar models..Sure, you might be able to beat it here/there on a lucky roll/opponent's mistake/etc., but not consistently.

It's a dice game. Luck will always be part of the equation. Why is it imbalanced if an Imperial player wins, and luck if a Rebel player wins?

I think this early in the life of the game, it's a little premature to say anything is broken about how the game works. Sure, IO is super powerful right now, but I'm sure that things will alter in coming waves.

I agree.

Has anyone had any luck with differing builds that combat the 4xIO strategy?

I know I haven't and I have tried several Rebel and Scum lists, easily over 10 different lists over 30+ games. The only thing that beats Imperial consistently in my experience is other Imperial lists using similar models..Sure, you might be able to beat it here/there on a lucky roll/opponent's mistake/etc., but not consistently.

Rebels with the right player I am like 15-0 with that Rebel list. the biggest problem with rebels right now are the missions not the officer.

It's a dice game. Luck will always be part of the equation. Why is it imbalanced if an Imperial player wins, and luck if a Rebel player wins?

Is that what I said? No? Well, okay then.

What I am saying is that Imperials win such a high percentage of the time and the few times they lose is typically the result of an anomaly in some portion of the game. That could be a player making a mistake or simply being a weaker player, or something like crazy dice swings Like JohnnyB's game where he rolled 9 Dodges AND got blast 3 turn 1.

I think I'm done. I'm going insane saying the same thing over and over. There is so much evidence there's a problem, I am starting to feel like I'm being trolled pretty hard.

I think this early in the life of the game, it's a little premature to say anything is broken about how the game works. Sure, IO is super powerful right now, but I'm sure that things will alter in coming waves.

I agree.

Has anyone had any luck with differing builds that combat the 4xIO strategy?

I know I haven't and I have tried several Rebel and Scum lists, easily over 10 different lists over 30+ games. The only thing that beats Imperial consistently in my experience is other Imperial lists using similar models..Sure, you might be able to beat it here/there on a lucky roll/opponent's mistake/etc., but not consistently.

Rebels with the right player I am like 15-0 with that Rebel list. the biggest problem with rebels right now are the missions not the officer.

Yep you are the best. You've managed to find the list that no one else has ever played and totally beats Imperial consistently because that's how much better you are. Pardon me, I need to go vomit.

Is that what I said? No? Well, okay then.

What I am saying is that Imperials win such a high percentage of the time and the few times they lose is typically the result of an anomaly in some portion of the game.

Yeah, that's exactly what you're saying, in this very same block of text no less. Imperials are broken, and Rebels only win under extreme circumstances. You give absolutely zero credit to the Rebel players for both their list creation talents or playing skill, and take absolutely zero time to consider the merits of said lists or qualify why they're subpar. That's disingenuous, it's disrespectful, and it's a terrible way to make an argument against anyone with half a brain. Fortunately, I know better.

I think I'm done. I'm going insane saying the same thing over and over. There is so much evidence there's a problem, I am starting to feel like I'm being trolled pretty hard.

If you listen to the podcast hida and I disagree about this. I have made my mind up at rebels in the right hands of a good player can do well . He thinks the meta is one sided. Hida had never viewed the elites as I have. This might of changed over time. We are both friends. Both ideas are totally find we are not all going to agree on something.

I do think my win was a little more than luck. I did get the right cards at the right time but think round 2 and 3 played pretty well. In round 1 I was out played and the dice were a huge factor. I made a lot of mistakes looking back not knowing the sabs had stun, forgetting I still had a command deck turn 2 which had take init in it, forgetting the reg sabs only had 2 acc when I could of just moved up one square and there were others. Louis played amazing and it was a great time.

I still stand behind that the mid round attack and deep strike it can create is game changing if done right vs high act builds. Since they are so use to moving an figure early with a officer.

It overall does seems I am out numbered when it comes to my view point on the meta when it comes to rebels. I think it's Imp high act(4/4,9act, Paul mix), main tank with vader or Rgc, and rebel blast. There are others but I think these are the top squads.

At this point in the games life you will see a lot more imperials than rebels. If you have just a core set you are almost forced to play imperial and if you buy the expansions you need to buy multiples to make the best rebel lists.

If rebels are outnumbered going into a tournament there is less chance of them winning even if skill/luck is equal. The quality of some rebel lists is being underestimated due to this distortion, those rebel elites are amazing units.

In the announced releases the imperials are getting 2 New deployment cards and the rebels are getting 5 plus the ability to use a scum unit. Hopefully this will make rebels more popular.

I think I'm done. I'm going insane saying the same thing over and over. There is so much evidence there's a problem, I am starting to feel like I'm being trolled pretty hard.

Yeah. Same. At this point it's been shown beyond all reasonable doubt that Imperial Officers are broken. Anyone still not getting it, won't ever get it. I'm out.

Yeah. Same. At this point it's been shown beyond all reasonable doubt that Imperial Officers are broken. Anyone still not getting it, won't ever get it. I'm out.

I'm not sure you understand what that expression means. Something has gone beyond reasonable here, but it's certainly not the evidence you're providing. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. Please feel free to revisit this thread when Rebel lists aren't winning any major events.

If anyone else is done crying here, I encourage you to join the discussion in this thread; perhaps we can find a solution on our own, proactively, rather than trying to convince FFG that the sky is falling... again.

God help me, I do so love a good flounce. 'Nobody will agree with me so I will publicly announce that I am DONE so that everyone knows just how upset I am by their failure to validate my opinion above all others. GOODBYE CRUEL THREAD.

The funniest thing of all is that we seem to have a lot of people talking past each other. Right now, the Empire is a little overpowered on the Skirmish side, simply because there is more variety of stuff available for them due to the Campaign side of the game and the fact that we have only effectively had the Core set (the Wave 1 expansions being essentially miniature versions of the counters included in the core box, plus some additional skirmish maps and campaign missions). It will inevitably balance out. If anything, FFG probably jumped the gun a little with the tournaments given the early stage that the game is at, but on the other hand, the materials are there currently to compete so they had at it. X Wing has developed so well and become such a strong game with a great community, yet every new wave there is a group of people loudly declaring that the 'meta has been broken'. It simply evolves, dependent on what is available. Right now, with so many cheap options available for the Empire points-wise, and so much emphasis on mainly mission types requiring mobility, Empire lists with lots of officers are a no-brainer. But that will inevitably alter over time.

If we get to Wave three and over 75% of winning lists at tourneys are still using four Imperial Officers, then I think it will be time to talk about the game being broken. Until then, I do really think that everyone needs to chill their beans a little and just enjoy themselves, either playing this, or whatever else floats their boat. Life is waaaaay to short to be falling out with fellow gaming/Star Wars fans over stuff like this.

So when are the US nationals, tomorrow?

Here are the US Nationals results (also added to the original post)

US Nationals

GenCon

Aug 1st

Attendace: 58

1st - Paul Heaver

From another post I read that 2 of the top 8 ran rebel blast lists, and this was what PH played against in the finals.

Also the Team Covenant guys always state that "Command Cards win games!" so perhaps some more data is needed re analysis of these.

What Command Card (CC) lists do the 4x4 play? Are they all playing the same CC lists?

US Nationals (Updated to Top 8)

GenCon

Aug 1st

Attendace: 58

1st - Paul Heaver

Top 8 - Louis Swiger

Royal Guard x3

Royal Guard Champion x1

Top 8 - Anthony Lutz

Imperial Officer x4

Royal Guard x4

Top 8 - Adam Schuh

Royal Guard Champion

Elite Probe Droid

Probe Droid x4

Imperial Officer x4

Top 8 - Matt Peterson

???????????

If anyone has the last list that would be great!

Matt Peterson (a friend of mine) was playing 3 Guards, 4 Officers, and 1 Elite E-Web.

someone did have to drop so a second rebel did make the top 8.

someone did have to drop so a second rebel did make the top 8.

I remember seeing you in top 8 - what list were you running? I wasn't sure how to type it in since it was kind of a weird circumstance.

US Nationals (GenCon)

August 1st

Attendance: 58

1st - Paul Heaver

Royal Guard x4

Imperial Officer x4

2nd - Ben Brann

Gideon Argus

Jyn Odan

Mak Eshka'rey

Luke Skywalker

Rebel Saboteur

Rebel Saboteur (Elite) x2

Top 4 - Billy Graham

Imperial Officer x4

E-Web Engineer (Elite) x2

Royal Guard x2

Top 4 - Brian Vandergalien

Imperial Officer x4

Royal Guard x4

Top 8 - Louis Swiger

Royal Guard x3

Royal Guard Champion x1

Top 8 - Anthony Lutz

Imperial Officer x4

Royal Guard x4

Top 8 - Matt Peterson

Royal Guard x3

Imperial Officer x4

E-Web Engineer (Elite)

Top 8 - Adam Schuh (Had to drop out, did not compete in top 8)

Royal Guard Champion

Elite Probe Droid

Probe Droid x4

Imperial Officer x4