Hi guys, the first national tournament we held in the UK this weekend so figured it was time to get a post going for it. Hoping to get at least the top 4 lists for each National (more the better), so if you have any info I'd appreciate if you add it

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UK Nationals

UK Games Expo

May 29th

Attendance: 30

1st - Jonathan Kipps-Bolton

Elite E-Web x2

Royal Guard x2

Imperial Officer x4

2nd - Dominic Wai

Imperial Officer x3

Elite E-Web Engineer

Royal Guards x2

Elite Probe Droid x2

Top 4 - ???

Royal Guard Champion

Royal Guard x2

Probe Droid

Imperial Officer x3

Top 4 - ???

Elite Probe Droid x2

Royal Guard x2

Storm Trooper

Imperial Officer x4

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US Nationals

GenCon

Aug 1st

Attendace: 58

1st - Paul Heaver

Any idea of what the prizes were/are?

Yeah Activation tokens, Han Solo card, Winner get a backpack.

Yeah Activation tokens, Han Solo card, Winner get a backpack.

Activation Tokens? Like the ones for Campaign? Doesn't seem overly useful for skirmish.

Han is a nice choice.

I'm reliably informed there were 32 attendees.

Can't help with details of lists, though I'm told there were a lot of Imperial Officers, Royal Guard, and Trandoshans running around...

Yeah Activation tokens, Han Solo card, Winner get a backpack.

Activation Tokens? Like the ones for Campaign? Doesn't seem overly useful for skirmish.

Han is a nice choice.

Yes but I would use them over moving my cards forward and sidward.

It's really not that hard.

Have the top 4 lists added now for the UK nationals. (thanks to the TO, Steven Alcock for sending them to me!)

Gonna come right out and say it: the sooner they errata Imperial Officers to 3 points per, the better it will be for the game. 14 of them in the top four lists? That's a pretty clear indication they're a no-brainer.

Come to that, 8 Royal Guards in the top four lists are clearly no coincidence. Though I wonder if you'd still get as many if you had fewer Officers.

Do you think that'll be the fix? I'd rather see something like the same unit can't receive a move order more than once per round.

Do you think that'll be the fix? I'd rather see something like the same unit can't receive a move order more than once per round.

Perhaps. There are other ways of doing it than increasing their points, it's true. Three points may be too much / too inelegant, but I think your proposed fix is not enough... RGs moving 15 spaces in a turn is still no-brainer good, even if they don't get to move 20.

Other possible fixes: the order gives two movement points instead of allowing a move action; limit them to two in a list (but then you'll simply always see 2, instead of 3 or 4 - doesn't change them from being a no-brainer in every list); limit them so you can't take more Officers than Stormtroopers (that's who they're supposed to be giving orders to, after all!)... probably can come up with a few more ideas with five minutes thought. And, to be fair, it will need thought - and play-testing... and possibly wider changes (e.g. to list selection rules, as implied by two of those suggestions just made).

Whatever happens, they can't leave it too long. At the moment you just take three or four Officers, at least one Royal Guard, and flavour to taste (more RG, E-Webs, Elite Probe Droids; whatever you think you can get the most effectiveness from the Officer's orders). When every list features the same things it makes for a hugely stale, bland, and boring game, and IA Skirmish won't survive if playing it becomes stale, bland, and boring.

Do you think that'll be the fix? I'd rather see something like the same unit can't receive a move order more than once per round.

That fix does not solve the problem. Most of my RG don;t get more than one order a turn as it is now.

Increasing the cost to 3 solves the problem since it forces out either a few officers or some of the threats.

Do you think that'll be the fix? I'd rather see something like the same unit can't receive a move order more than once per round.

Perhaps. There are other ways of doing it than increasing their points, it's true. Three points may be too much / too inelegant, but I think your proposed fix is not enough... RGs moving 15 spaces in a turn is still no-brainer good, even if they don't get to move 20.

Other possible fixes: the order gives two movement points instead of allowing a move action; limit them to two in a list (but then you'll simply always see 2, instead of 3 or 4 - doesn't change them from being a no-brainer in every list); limit them so you can't take more Officers than Stormtroopers (that's who they're supposed to be giving orders to, after all!)... probably can come up with a few more ideas with five minutes thought. And, to be fair, it will need thought - and play-testing... and possibly wider changes (e.g. to list selection rules, as implied by two of those suggestions just made).

Whatever happens, they can't leave it too long. At the moment you just take three or four Officers, at least one Royal Guard, and flavour to taste (more RG, E-Webs, Elite Probe Droids; whatever you think you can get the most effectiveness from the Officer's orders). When every list features the same things it makes for a hugely stale, bland, and boring game, and IA Skirmish won't survive if playing it becomes stale, bland, and boring.

Totally nailed it. +1

Do you think that'll be the fix? I'd rather see something like the same unit can't receive a move order more than once per round.

That fix does not solve the problem. Most of my RG don;t get more than one order a turn as it is now.

Increasing the cost to 3 solves the problem since it forces out either a few officers or some of the threats.

Too bad that'll never happen. FFG doesn't like to errata, and when they do it's because the card doesn't function as intended. The best we might hope for is an amendment of the action itself or the rules (a team wide limitation to only one of the same special action per turn), or the more drastic decision to flat out ban the grey IO. Don't expect either to happen any time soon, if they ever happen at all.

Do you think that'll be the fix? I'd rather see something like the same unit can't receive a move order more than once per round.

That fix does not solve the problem. Most of my RG don;t get more than one order a turn as it is now.

Increasing the cost to 3 solves the problem since it forces out either a few officers or some of the threats.

Too bad that'll never happen. FFG doesn't like to errata, and when they do it's because the card doesn't function as intended. The best we might hope for is an amendment of the action itself or the rules (a team wide limitation to only one of the same special action per turn), or the more drastic decision to flat out ban the grey IO. Don't expect either to happen any time soon, if they ever happen at all.

I hope you are wrong, since they have to know it is killing the game, at least skirmish. I have more than one person in our area saying "there's no point in playing" because of how everyone is playing basically the same list. The people in question are X-Wing regional winners/Top 4 guys and are generally respected and people are listening. I myself play about one game a week at this point (down from ~10x that number before Wave 1 hit). It's just boring. I don't know anyone planning on playing at GenCon aside from maybe myself, and I am not overly excited about it. If we are still talking about the officer being OP leading into Worlds, I fear there will be nobody left, which would be a huge shame.

Four waves into X-Wing they printed the Phantom, which warped the meta from last summer until a very recent errata changed the cloak rule. That's the better part of a year to fix something with fairly obvious and immediate consequences. FFG takes these things very seriously, which is exactly why they don't rush in to change them.

I hope you are wrong, since they have to know it is killing the game, at least skirmish. I have more than one person in our area saying "there's no point in playing" because of how everyone is playing basically the same list. The people in question are X-Wing regional winners/Top 4 guys and are generally respected and people are listening. I myself play about one game a week at this point (down from ~10x that number before Wave 1 hit). It's just boring. I don't know anyone planning on playing at GenCon aside from maybe myself, and I am not overly excited about it. If we are still talking about the officer being OP leading into Worlds, I fear there will be nobody left, which would be a huge shame.

It's nowhere near that extreme around here, as we're quite laid back and self-policing and anyone who took 4x IO, 4x RG (or whatever) would get roundly mocked and derided. It's a fantastic game so long as you don't spam IOs/RGs.

But, one of our group went to the UK Nationals at the Gaming Expo and it doesn't sound like he'll bother going again... for myself, I love playing this game "for fun", and would normally be looking at getting into it at a tournament level; but I don't see any point in going to a tournament just to play against the same enemy units over and over and over and over and over again.

I don't know how important FFG consider the "tournament scene" to be, but if they attack any importance to it at all, IOs have to be nerfed, as soon as possible.

The meta in Star Wars Minis was pretty limiting when it came to top level play. Bill, Matt and me would not play top level squads and test stuff out. In this game not sure skill level will trump some of the figures. Also locally we had a league that changed up what could be played and had special rules each week. This really made me a better player and a big reason why I still stayed with the game as long as I did. For the health of the game we really do need to get the kid involved it will lessen what peoplewill play and make the game more fun. Kids are a huge part of the growth locally if you like it or not.

If I had to play the same meta in star wars minis each week for the past 10 years when it comes to top level play I would of got bored. We need to get creative when it comes to local play because only so much comes out at a time. You really need to keep the super top level squads in the bag till Gencon and Worlds.

I really feel you guys played too hard too fast and thats why you got burned out.

Limiting what people have to play like: at least one Jedi and only 6 acts one week, Then the next week have to have at least one bounty hunter. Then throw in a Achievement list that gives you special points outside of the games just for a leader board help too.

Four waves into X-Wing they printed the Phantom, which warped the meta from last summer until a very recent errata changed the cloak rule. That's the better part of a year to fix something with fairly obvious and immediate consequences. FFG takes these things very seriously, which is exactly why they don't rush in to change them.

The difference being 1) There were counters to the Phantom, just not pleasant ones and 2) X-Wing had an established player base at that point. Sure, I am certain there were people that stopped playing or got bored because of the Phantom, but the vast majority were able to get over it and play meta-squads for the time being to get around it. In this case, you have neither the player base nor the convenient (if a bit boring) counter lists. Name a squad that beats 3+ Officers and 2+ RG lists easily that isn't another Imperial list of the same type. You can't, because one does not exist. There is no "Fat Han" that we can lean on to keep the game playable. Its basically all Imperial all day.

I am concerned that if they do nothing the player base will be non-existent by the time it is fixed.

The meta in Star Wars Minis was pretty limiting when it came to top level play. Bill, Matt and me would not play top level squads and test stuff out. In this game not sure skill level will trump some of the figures. Also locally we had a league that changed up what could be played and had special rules each week. This really made me a better player and a big reason why I still stayed with the game as long as I did. For the health of the game we really do need to get the kid involved it will lessen what peoplewill play and make the game more fun. Kids are a huge part of the growth locally if you like it or not.

If I had to play the same meta in star wars minis each week for the past 10 years when it comes to top level play I would of got bored. We need to get creative when it comes to local play because only so much comes out at a time. You really need to keep the super top level squads in the bag till Gencon and Worlds.

I hear you and I am planning on adjusting our League to house rule the Imperial Officer to 3 points and the Grey Royal Guard to 9 points. Its a little more heavy handed tacking on the RG, but I am hoping it will force people to be a bit more creative. The only issue is we will all know that when it comes tournament time, the only lists that matter involve Imperial, but I have to do something to keep the player base alive.

It seems to me like Imperial Officers, and Royal Guards, as individual units are very appropriately priced. Upping their cost might fix the "4 guard 4 IO spam" lists, but it also breaks a lot of other fun, balanced Imperial lists.

I think a more appropriate tournament fix would be to limit how many of these problem units can be in a list. Official rules says you cannot have more than 4 of the same type, but I think it would be a very reasonable fix to additionally limit Royal Guards and/or Imperial Officers to two each per list. (Or 3 each if 2 is too limiting).

IOs and RGs aren't broken when you have 1-2 in you're list. They're broken when you have 3+.

It seems to me like Imperial Officers, and Royal Guards, as individual units are very appropriately priced. Upping their cost might fix the "4 guard 4 IO spam" lists, but it also breaks a lot of other fun, balanced Imperial lists.

I think a more appropriate tournament fix would be to limit how many of these problem units can be in a list. Official rules says you cannot have more than 4 of the same type, but I think it would be a very reasonable fix to additionally limit Royal Guards and/or Imperial Officers to two each per list. (Or 3 each if 2 is too limiting).

IOs and RGs aren't broken when you have 1-2 in you're list. They're broken when you have 3+.

If it was only 3 it would not fix the problem. 2xRG 2xE Probe, E. E-Web, 3xOfficer is already a list.

You can make an argument for 2, but I personally would rather have the cost increased. That way you could still take 3+ if you wanted, but there would be an overall impact on the list from a points perspective..

What would people think about adding a rule that stated each list must have at least one unique character in it? I think this would make some of the Imperial lists cap out at 6 or 7 activations.

What would people think about adding a rule that stated each list must have at least one unique character in it? I think this would make some of the Imperial lists cap out at 6 or 7 activations.

Means my themed "lots of Stormtroopers" list consisting of Stormtroopers (plus Elite), E-Web (plus Elite), Heavy Stormtroopers (not out yet but we've seen the card; swap for more Stormtroopers if people don't want to play against the Heavies) and a single Officer gets ruled out, and I don't think anyone would consider it an unfairly strong list.

I can see where your suggestion is coming from, I'm not saying it's a bad one, but I think it solves the wrong problem... the problem isn't number of activations, per se . The problem is that Officers and their Command ability are simply too good for 2 points, and that at only 8 points for 4, you've still got 32 points to spend on... whatever you want, which might include the RGC or Darth Vader or whatever. Or to put it another way, you can take an RGC and two units of RG and still have (if I've remembered the RGC's points cost right) enough for three or four Officers.

The meta will also shift as new releases come out? We've got a lot coming up in the next few months?