I'll admit that I am getting used to using Neb Bs again. I dismissed them for a long time after a flurry of terrible games. Honestly, probably not ht best way of approaching things, but I came back to it very recently. The X17 card is something I need multiples of. It works....if I can roll more than 2 hits on any number of dice.

I still haven't beaten that luck.

The Nebs WERE terrible in the core set.

Those two titles, and especially x17s dramatically improved them.

I think my core problem with the non-salvation ships come down to efficiency.

Escort Cost: 57 points

Front: 3 red
Side: 1 red, 1 blue

Mean front arc at long range: 2.25 damage
Mean front arc at medium range: 2.25 damage
Mean two arcs at medium range: 4 damage

CR90A Cost: 44 points

Front: 2 red, 1 blue
Side: 1 red, 1 blue

Mean front arc at long range: 1.5 damage
Mean front arc at medium range: 2.25 damage
Mean two arcs at medium range: 4 damage

Now, the engagement methodology of these two ships is completely different. The Nebulon B wants to slow-roll from the front, shield the sides, and grind. The CR90 wants to blitz, and get around to the sides/rear of most opponents it will face (other than the Assault Frigate, where you definitely don't want to hang out on the sides).

However, here is the core of why I am dubious about the Nebulon B: most imperial ships also want to slow-roll and grind, or get close and grind. So, by doing the optimal thing with the Nebulon B, you are also allowing the imperials to do their optimal thing (and, right now, I see more imperial players than rebels). Thus, you play into the strengths of the opponent; going at a VSDI or VSDII from the front, slowly, is far better for them than trying to control that front arc to chase a corvette around as it repeatedly drops perpendicular behind the ship and blasts away at the rear/sides.

So after coming back to it several times, I think the core problem for the Nebulon B right now is that the ship is good at something the most common opponent is better at. I think Salvation may still have a role as the center line ship with some B-wings to discourage getting close, but I'm not sure it's better than a rebel fleet purely composed of AFs and CR90s that just scatters.

As, when you throw in what the opponent will be returning fire with, the Neb B is no tougher than the CR90 from the sides (6 combined shields/health), and using the optimal strategy for both, the Neb B is probably at a comparative disadvantage even if it is, in isolation or against a rebel fleet, just fine.

This is the long way of saying my best fleet builds currently include 1 or zero Nebulon Bs, but until the Imperial fleet diversifies and/or the rebels have more ships that can work with the slow roll forward strategy, it's an odd duck other than Salvation (which is an obvious sniper/lure).

One of the best things you can do with a Neb-B when facing down VSDs actually is to cut your engines. Stop entirely, while they're at that long range bracket. You won't need your brace token vs meager fire from their long range weapons, while it buys you an extra turn of not getting in the killzone. You can use a maneuver token then to start back up. While doing this, cram down those Engineering orders to keep front shields healthy, using Transfers from the rear (which will never get hit) and repairs once the rear is empty.

One of the best things you can do with a Neb-B when facing down VSDs actually is to cut your engines. Stop entirely, while they're at that long range bracket. You won't need your brace token vs meager fire from their long range weapons, while it buys you an extra turn of not getting in the killzone. You can use a maneuver token then to start back up. While doing this, cram down those Engineering orders to keep front shields healthy, using Transfers from the rear (which will never get hit) and repairs once the rear is empty.

Presumably this means you should take Dodonna as Commander, since Mon Mothma won't be of any use with this strategy....?

always general D

oh god the B-wings, oh god the crits...

Just got my second core. I want to run 3 Nebs and 3 CR90s.

I know the assault frigate is good but it just looks dumb. Ready for the Mon Cals to hit the shelves.

One of the best things you can do with a Neb-B when facing down VSDs actually is to cut your engines. Stop entirely, while they're at that long range bracket. You won't need your brace token vs meager fire from their long range weapons, while it buys you an extra turn of not getting in the killzone. You can use a maneuver token then to start back up. While doing this, cram down those Engineering orders to keep front shields healthy, using Transfers from the rear (which will never get hit) and repairs once the rear is empty.

Presumably this means you should take Dodonna as Commander, since Mon Mothma won't be of any use with this strategy....?

Depends. Mothma's flexibility is still crazy strong when you're NOT doing this. IMO she saves your AF2 and other ships enough damage to be worth it, especially if you're trying to brute force enemy SDs to death.

Plus, you'd never do this if you were facing a rebel-rebel mirror match. Keep moving to prevent that AF2 from flanking you!

Still haven't had a decent game with my Nebulon-B's. Just can't keep them at range long enough for the frontal attacks to pay off.

I guess I need to work on the "high-skill" aspects of them.

Still haven't had a decent game with my Nebulon-B's. Just can't keep them at range long enough for the frontal attacks to pay off.

I guess I need to work on the "high-skill" aspects of them.

Practice makes perfect, mate. You'll get it.

How is this even a thread? No redirect, 1 side shield. Terrible. Absolutely terrible.

I like 2 with a AF keep them at long range and have the AF move fast around the board killing things there gread support ships

How is this even a thread? No redirect, 1 side shield. Terrible. Absolutely terrible.

You know what is better than redirecting damage? Straight up negating it with brace. For the price point, the nebulon is awesome.

How is this even a thread? No redirect, 1 side shield. Terrible. Absolutely terrible.

You know what is better than redirecting damage? Straight up negating it with brace. For the price point, the nebulon is awesome.

Though you have a valid point, I think the Neb would have profited from a def token layout similar to the AF. Bracing and evading is all nice and stuff, but redirecting damage would have been pure gold on a vessel with single-shield side arcs. Sneaking a total of 2 (or more) dmg through evades and brace is not that uncommon, and a redirect would help a ton with that.

How is this even a thread? No redirect, 1 side shield. Terrible. Absolutely terrible.

You know what is better than redirecting damage? Straight up negating it with brace. For the price point, the nebulon is awesome.

Though you have a valid point, I think the Neb would have profited from a def token layout similar to the AF. Bracing and evading is all nice and stuff, but redirecting damage would have been pure gold on a vessel with single-shield side arcs. Sneaking a total of 2 (or more) dmg through evades and brace is not that uncommon, and a redirect would help a ton with that.

But its very fitting, because it refelcts the downside of the Neb-B beeing its shield configuration. And its makes it not just another medium sized vessel.

Let me rephrase. I play very competitively. If you're running a Nebulon-B in a list that isn't Yavaris or *maybe* The crit one then *competitively* it's not worth it.

Let me rephrase. I play very competitively. If you're running a Nebulon-B in a list that isn't Yavaris or *maybe* The crit one then *competitively* it's not worth it.

May I ask why you don't just lead with this rather then your other post?

You invite nothing but people ignoring what you are saying when your posts are as dismissive and hostile as you led with earlier.

Let me rephrase. I play very competitively. If you're running a Nebulon-B in a list that isn't Yavaris or *maybe* The crit one then *competitively* it's not worth it.

My experience is trending similar. My current lists (my most common opponent tends to play either 1 VSD / double gladiator or 2 VSD / 2 Glad) have to contend with some very strong imperial builds, and as a result, they trend in one of two directions:

Zero or 1 Nebulon B, with the only ones making the cut being Yavaris (and only then in certain builds emphasizing squadrons) and Salvation (specifically with the X17 Turbos and nothing else).

Lots of support refit Nebulons (2-3), along with lots of corvettes (also 2-3) and Mon Mothma. Which, really, might play better simply with 6 corvettes, I just don't have that many.

Corvettes can't withstand heavy concentrated fire when on their attack run. Because they're 2 evades and a redirect, a massive VSD volley at medium range (where Corvettes should be due to their reliance on blue dice in both versions) means they're going to go down fast. Just one accuracy and you can't even use Redirect, meaning 6 damage kills you dead.

In a head on engagement, Neb Bs are far tougher. 3 shields in front with two braces means you're probably not going to lock out the brace or damage hull in one attack. It'll take two dead minimum from even the strongest of arcs. You'll have more firepower at Range 3 even. With Salvation, you'll have FAR more firepower.

There's a lot of uses for Nebs. They just have an obvious single vulnerability that you must prepare against. Vs Demolisher, you'll just be peice-trading.

it's strange that the side arc weakness is so glaring when Corvs have tons of weaknesses of their own

(crap anti-squadron, crap squadron support, lack of braces as mentioned, weakness at and reliance on medium range basically solved only by MM, close range is big NO NO)

they're great ships, but it's funny that they get a great rep while the Neb does not

The CR90's a lot easier to use. Did you screw up a maneuver? Okay, you probably can loop around unless you're rocketting at SPD4. Turn to turn dials and general lower target priority makes it feel like it does more: Especially with core set experiences with Doodana's Pride, which seems awesome but is in reality, only 'okay' to mediocre now that the game is 'really' out.

Salvation is meanwhile, the real deal. Such firepower. Much economy.

Corvettes can't withstand heavy concentrated fire when on their attack run. Because they're 2 evades and a redirect, a massive VSD volley at medium range (where Corvettes should be due to their reliance on blue dice in both versions) means they're going to go down fast. Just one accuracy and you can't even use Redirect, meaning 6 damage kills you dead.

In a head on engagement, Neb Bs are far tougher. 3 shields in front with two braces means you're probably not going to lock out the brace or damage hull in one attack. It'll take two dead minimum from even the strongest of arcs. You'll have more firepower at Range 3 even. With Salvation, you'll have FAR more firepower.

There's a lot of uses for Nebs. They just have an obvious single vulnerability that you must prepare against. Vs Demolisher, you'll just be peice-trading.

I bolded the points I wanted to discuss.

1) What kind of massive volley from a VSD at medium range are we talking about? Assuming it's not from the front (Where 6 damage is still impressive) and not Dominator, the max damage you can do from a VSD side shot is 7 damage (9 with Enh Arm), and that's very very very unlikely to get 3 (much less 4) double damage results. I've played against a lot of corvettes, and I have yet to one shot one from the side without Dominator.

2) Nothing in the game should go for a head on engagement against the VSD, ever. I feel like that's just basically feeding your Neb-B's to the VSD, though I do agree that they are more durable than the CR-90 in this aspect.

That's the thing: NebBs are the only thing Rebs have that actually CAN head to head a VSD and win. Since two Nebs (102) cost similarly to one VSD (85), advancing slowly and abusing your two braces to their one plus the incredible utility of Evade, means that Nebs are probably coming out on top of that encounter. If they're flanked, they're in trouble. But hopefully that's where good Admiralship comes into play. An AF2 can fight a VSD evenly, but it's a different sort of fight that is largely about maneuver and flanking.

Don't look at things in vacuum: It's entirely possible for VSDs to cover each other in a way where the only productive move for a CR90 (Besides hiding to protect VP, which may not win your objectives) is to weather a turn of enemy fire at bad conditions.

2) Nothing in the game should go for a head on engagement against the VSD, ever. I feel like that's just basically feeding your Neb-B's to the VSD, though I do agree that they are more durable than the CR-90 in this aspect.

disagree

Bombers should always go for a head on engagement against the VSD

I've personally had good experiences running Nebs straight into the gaping maw of VSDs, "good" of course meaning the Neb got slaughtered but the Victory died with it (not because of the Neb, mind, but because freaking B-wings + Neb fire + Neb ram)

The fact that there's so many differing opinions on the Nebulon's viability is an indicator of its good design. No other ship can take on so many roles depending on what style of fleet you want to bring in your game and no other ship can reward or punish you as much for your skill in using them.