Do you guys think there should be fighter upgrades. Some Examples...

R2D2 - Allows unit to repair 1 Hull/Turn when activated
Astromech - Allows unit to boost hull or speed by 1, single use
Advanced Astromech - Allows unit to boost hull or speed by 1, dual use
Mag Pulse Missiles - Replaces one Anti-Ship Red or Black die with a Blue one
Advanced Concussion Missiles - Hits from a Black die do an extra point of damage

Advanced Proton Torpedoes - Hits from any die may do an extra point of damage, player must declare before the die is rolled.

Enhanced Shields - Adds 1 Hull to Squadron
Enhanced Electronics Suite - May cause attackers to re-roll a single Black Anti-Squadron die against each attack.

For Ties, Tie Adv., Tie Bombers, Tie Interceptors Only
External Missiles - Adds Black die to Anti-Squadron AND Anti-Ship, Single Use, Reduced unit Speed by 1 until exhausted.
Shield Generator - Add 1 Hull to Squadron and reduce Speed by 1.

Hmm, I think that that's what X-Wing is for.

I kind of like the way they have been doing it so far, where upgrades to capital ships increase the efficacy of your fighter wing. It feels more in keeping with the game's overarching theme, at least in my opinion. I'd be concerned that implementing upgrades for individual fighters would only serve to bog the game down.

You could also just do upgraded squadron cards, specialized squadrons. I just fought some Concussion missile armed Interceptors and Shields Ties in the PC game Tie FIghter.

I kind of like the way they have been doing it so far, where upgrades to capital ships increase the efficacy of your fighter wing. It feels more in keeping with the game's overarching theme, at least in my opinion. I'd be concerned that implementing upgrades for individual fighters would only serve to bog the game down.

Agreed.

I think squadron combat is a great part of this game, and I like the two-level aspect of the game, but I don't think there should be that much variation in the capabilities of squadron at the level of astromech droids or hull upgrades and such like.

Still, for me I wouldn't mind it all that much. I'd just rather they spent their limited time and energy (and my money) on giving us more ships.

I'm sure it'll be a thing eventually.

X-Wing has had to add several new upgrade types in order to grow the game without oversaturating the initially-available options.

There's no reason to assume Armada will be any different. In fact, they seem poised to run out of squadron-related content within the next wave or two. One more expansion pack that covers 3-4 ships and they'll be just about done with all the tier 1 and tier 2 starfighters. It makes sense that they would find a way to dilute or string out that content by adding upgrades to modify and reinvigorate existing starfighters.

I can see them making specialized squadron packs that come with squadrons with more shields or more dice per attack than normal. It would allow them to spread out waves more.

uhh, these upgrades already exist

we have Gallant Haven, Corrupter, Flight Controllers, Hangars...

really, the only upgrades squadrons need are the named variants. They're too tiny to keep track of anything beyond that.

Squadrons are an essential part of this game, but they're a mechanic integrated to such a point that the models themselves do not need upgrades. Their dependency on capital ships allow FFG to make squadron-centric upgrades that ships take, furthering that dependency and keeping the game focused primarily on cap ships

I agree with the posters above that too much granularity for squadron combat would not be a good thing.

Considering the focus of the game are the capital ships, I would be wary of fighter upgrades. That said, I do think they can be made to work in a couple of ways:

- Alternative squadrons: Rather than attaching an upgrade card to an existing squadron, one option is to create an entirely new squadron card/base. This would be ideal to represent special squadrons (181st). This is the only feasible way I can see to upgrade individual squadrons however.

- Squadron upgrades: I could forsee upgrade cards being made to attach to squadron cards, but they would upgrade all fighters of that type. This in turn would be hard to balance with a flat cost, as FFG have no way to know in advance if you're taking 1 fighter of this squadron or 10. An easy answer to this issue (in my mind at least) would be to have the upgrade card modify the cost of the squadron card, meaning that you could either buy TIE fighters at 8pts each, or upgraded TIEs at say 10pts each, but not a mixture of the 2. Whether or not it would be considered too complicated for players in general though is another matter.

- Fleet-wide upgrades: I could also forsee upgrades that affect all the fighters in your fleet. I'm almost certain though that such a card would be the admiral of the fleet.

(Note that I haven't included indirect upgrades such as ship upgrades that merely make a fighter better whilst the ship activates the fighter)

I don't see FFG creating upgrades for squadrons as it will only unnecessarily complicate the game. As several others have said ship upgrades that affect squadrons will probably be the norm. However, I can see them doing an aces fighter pack that would have famous squadrons like Rogue squadron and the 181st.

I don't see FFG creating upgrades for squadrons as it will only unnecessarily complicate the game.

Not that I'm saying that FFG will do such a thing, but out of curiousity what would complicated about something like the following?:

Close Support Training

TIE Fighters only

TIE Fighters gain the Escort keyword

Cost: +2

In my mind it would be easy enough to say that all my TIE Fighters now have Escort, whilst at the same time now costing 10pts each.I guess I just don't see how it could be seen as complicated providing that the ruling is that such upgrades are all or nothing (so no mixing Escort TIEs with standard TIEs).

Thinking about it, such an upgrade could either be done as an upgrade to the squadron card, or as a new squadron.

Squadron Card:

+ Allows flexibility in taking a mix of upgraded and non-upgraded fighters of the same type.

- Adds to the complexity in that players have to pay more attention to the card bases of the squadrons, rather than the squadrons themselves. (This isn't so bad with the occassional pilots, but I could see it getting out of hand if too many different varients are around).

Upgrade Card:

+ Keeps things simple. All generic TIEs on the table have the same upgrade & cost, leaving just the individual pilots as occassional exceptions, the same as now.

- Lacks flexibility.

I like the fact that there are no extra things to track with the squadrons. It's not about them. They are there in game play to support the ships so it makes perfect sense for the upgrades to be on the ships, not the squadrons. We do have them in a way with the hero cards that have better abilities and tokens versus the generic fighters. I can see more of those in the future.

I mentioned before there could easily be "Formations" This would be a simple 1-2 point upgrade that will be removed after it is expended.

Line abreast (1 point) expend this card to gain 1 blue die when attacking a ship. After it is expended remove this card from play.

Finger four. (2 point) expend this card to gain Counter-1 (if this squadron already has counter, increase it's counter value by 1) After it is expended remove this card from play.

Line astern (1 point) when attacked by a ship with it's anti-squadron armament, expend this card to remove one die from the pool. After it is expended remove this card from play

Luke Skywalker is basically a squadron upgrade, as is Dark Vader, Wedge and so on. Are you asking for something that is already there?

Armada should remain focused on capital ships. Any upgrades to squadrons should continue to be through the ships that support them. FFG has done a good job with the way they are handling squadrons so far.

I mentioned before there could easily be "Formations" This would be a simple 1-2 point upgrade that will be removed after it is expended.

Line abreast (1 point) expend this card to gain 1 blue die when attacking a ship. After it is expended remove this card from play.

Finger four. (2 point) expend this card to gain Counter-1 (if this squadron already has counter, increase it's counter value by 1) After it is expended remove this card from play.

Line astern (1 point) when attacked by a ship with it's anti-squadron armament, expend this card to remove one die from the pool. After it is expended remove this card from play

- Alternative squadrons: Rather than attaching an upgrade card to an existing squadron, one option is to create an entirely new squadron card/base. This would be ideal to represent special squadrons (181st). This is the only feasible way I can see to upgrade individual squadrons however.

I can see them doing this.

However, I also thought they would do that from the start. Instead, they went with special squads named for characters rather than squadrons.

In the meantime, I'm nearly finished upgrading my squadrons with a paint job.

You could also just do upgraded squadron cards, specialized squadrons. I just fought some Concussion missile armed Interceptors and Shields Ties in the PC game Tie FIghter.

I like this idea a lot. You could essentially offer a bit variety without too much confusion about which squadron is bringing which upgrade. A single additional squadron card (2-sided) would allow two additional layouts of the same squadron, say a veteran squadron (halfway between unique and regular squadron) and a differently armed/equipped squadron. Probably the most elegant way to include upgrades on squadrons..

It won't complicate the game and could be done very easily, but I don't think they will. Squadrons are an impactful part of the game, but the game is about the ships. They are acutely aware of this, and all indications I've gotten from FFG (through interviews and talking to them at GenCon last year) are that they plan to keep the focus on the ships.

I really hope it's a long time before we see any squadron upgrades. Named squadron pilots kinda already do this, and even that is a bit too much for my liking. Maybe if the game gets stale and needs a new mechanic or something, but this game is still new and I'd really hate to see it have a heavier focus on squadrons.

Luke Skywalker is basically a squadron upgrade, as is Dark Vader, Wedge and so on. Are you asking for something that is already there?

Luke, Vader and the like are all fine, but they burn your 1/3 fighter allowance quite fast. Besides, I dont want my fighter wing to be that ultra elite. No way Vader and his named circus of flying aces are showing up in full for what basically is just a small skirmish. It feels wrong to me. Something intermediate would be nice, a squadron that is not en par with Vader, yet also not a rookie TIE squadron fresh from college. Its an elegant way to add some flavour, and would not disturb the flow of the game anymore than a unique squadron does, provided they are delivered with own squadron base and cards..

So if we go strictly with optional cards....a few examples

Shielded Tie Fighter Squadron
Speed 3
Hull 4
Anti-Squadron 3 Blue
Anti-Ship 1 Blue
Swarm
9 Points (+1 Point)

Concussion Missile Armed Tie Fighter Squadron
Speed 3

Hull 3

Anti-Squadron 3 Blue, 1 Black

Anti-Ship 1 Black

Swarm

10 Points (+2 Points)

Shielded and Concussion Missile Armed Ties

Speed 3

Hull 4

Anti-Squadron 3 Blue, 1 Black

Anti-Ship 1 Black

Swarm

11 Points (+3 Points)

X-Wings with Advanced Concussion Missiles
Speed 3

Hull 5

Anti-Squadron 4 Blue, 1 Black
Anti-Ship 1 Black
Escort
Bomber
15 Points (+2 Points)

X-Wing with Advanced Proton Torpedoes
Speed 3
Hull 5
Anti-Squadron 4 Blue
Anti-Ship 2 Black
Escort

Bomber

16 Points (+3 Points)

Shielded Tie Interceptors
Speed 4
Hull 4
Anti-Squadron 4 Blue
Anti-Ship 1 Blue
Counter 2
Swarm
12 Points (+1 Point)

Concussion Missile Armed Tie Interceptors
Speed 4
Hull 3
Anti-Squadron 4 Blue, 1 Black
Anti-Ship 1 Black
Counter 2
Swarm
13 Points (+2 Points)

So if we go strictly with optional cards....a few examples

Shielded Tie Fighter Squadron

Speed 3

Hull 4

Anti-Squadron 3 Blue

Anti-Ship 1 Blue

Swarm

9 Points (+1 Point)

Concussion Missile Armed Tie Fighter Squadron

Speed 3

Hull 3

Anti-Squadron 3 Blue, 1 Black

Anti-Ship 1 Black

Swarm

10 Points (+2 Points)

Shielded and Concussion Missile Armed Ties

Speed 3

Hull 4

Anti-Squadron 3 Blue, 1 Black

Anti-Ship 1 Black

Swarm

11 Points (+3 Points)

X-Wings with Advanced Concussion Missiles

Speed 3

Hull 5

Anti-Squadron 4 Blue, 1 Black

Anti-Ship 1 Black

Escort

Bomber

15 Points (+2 Points)

X-Wing with Advanced Proton Torpedoes

Speed 3

Hull 5

Anti-Squadron 4 Blue

Anti-Ship 2 Black

Escort

Bomber

16 Points (+3 Points)

Shielded Tie Interceptors

Speed 4

Hull 4

Anti-Squadron 4 Blue

Anti-Ship 1 Blue

Counter 2

Swarm

12 Points (+1 Point)

Concussion Missile Armed Tie Interceptors

Speed 4

Hull 3

Anti-Squadron 4 Blue, 1 Black

Anti-Ship 1 Black

Counter 2

Swarm

13 Points (+2 Points)

If you want X-Wing, you know where to find it. No doubt that these abilities are already built in to the existing point values of the ships (X-Wings have the Bomber keyword, for example).

That is the thing. I don't want X-wing. But I think fighters should have more flexibility and reflect some of what was in the PC games.

The Ties are slower but a bit hardier with the shield upgrades.

Mag Pulse Warheads for example, in the game would make it easier to disable units. This could be reflected as additional Anti-Squadron damage at the cost of Anti-Ship damage.

X-Wings could be loaded with Advanced Concussion Missiles in place if the Proton Torpedoes making them better in an Anti-Fighter role while removing the Bomber trait.