I'm torn between which of the following two builds to try out first. I'm trying to maximum squadrons in both lists, so the main choice comes down to which capital ships to use. Both minimal points for initiative, which I'm not worried about. I'm comfortable with going second and playing my objectives (Advanced Gunnery, Fleet Ambush, Intel Sweep for both).

List 1

Assault Frigate Mark IIB

-General Dodonna

-Gallant Haven

-Adar Tallon

-Enhanced Armaments

-Expanded Hangar Bay

-Flight Controllers

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate

-Yavaris

3x B-Wings

3x X-Wings

Wedge

This is the list i want to like. On paper Yavaris can be brutal and the Assault Frigate is pimped out. Between the enhanced Armaments and the X17s, this list can pack a very good punch with the capital ships at long range even without Paragon. Two things make me nervous. First, with the Assault Frigate so pimped out, that's a lot of eggs in one basket. It's tough, so it might be able to handle it, but I still worry about sinking so many points into upgrades. Worry number two is that Yavaris isn't as good in practice as it is on paper. That would pretty well negate the entire point of bringing a Neb-B, which is not a ship I'm particular enthralled with (no redirect token with super flimsy sides).

List 2

Assault Frigate Mark IIB

-General Dodonna

-XI7 Turbolasers

-Paragon

Assault Frigate Mark IIB

-ECM

-Adar Tallon

-Expanded Hangar Bays

-Gallant Haven

2x B-Wings

2x X-Wings

Wedge

Luke

use the space whale...

Go where your heart desireS

Personally havnt needed ecm on paragon because EVERYTHING goes for haven 100% of the time

Go where your heart desireS

Personally havnt needed ecm on paragon because EVERYTHING goes for haven 100% of the time

you could then up paragon to a mk2 A for slightly increased combat effectivness

or put expanded hangers on the haven

I have been having a similar problem in figuring out the assault frigate problem, except one thing makes it easier for me. I only own one assault frigate for now but have two nebs and a CR90.

I really like the look of your first list

And I kinda want something similar to it but I want my capital ships both the Assault frigate and Neb B to be able to pack the most punch to kick in imperial teeth . I think the answer to a potent Neb B is Salvation with the Xl7 turbo laser. Beyond that I get hung up on ideal choices on what other upgrades o should put on my capital ships and my biggest headache is trying to figure out what would be the best choice for my fighters

highly recommend Xs and/or Bs with Haven. Their slowness becomes kind of an asset because it turns haven into a sort of moving barricade of "nope"

otherwise, when in doubt just X or A wing

I have always liked moving barricades of nope...

I am guessing people like the GH title? Maybe I should dust mine off.

THere has yet to be any space-faring force in my games of Armada that can beat Gallant Haven i.t.o sheer effect

Flight controller + howlrunner interceptors just bounce off of generic x-wings. If squadrons might within Haven, then the Haven's squadrons are just going to win outside of sheer rngesery. Even just one round of squadron v squadron inside it will push the advantage heavily to your side.

in that sense, Gallant Haven is the most ridiculous thing in the game. The weakness comes in distance one, squadron engagement mechanics, and the fact that the fattie does not want to stay put when there's scary **** a-coming (esp imperial capital ships)

I have been having a similar problem in figuring out the assault frigate problem, except one thing makes it easier for me. I only own one assault frigate for now but have two nebs and a CR90.

I really like the look of your first list

And I kinda want something similar to it but I want my capital ships both the Assault frigate and Neb B to be able to pack the most punch to kick in imperial teeth . I think the answer to a potent Neb B is Salvation with the Xl7 turbo laser. Beyond that I get hung up on ideal choices on what other upgrades o should put on my capital ships and my biggest headache is trying to figure out what would be the best choice for my fighters

Taking Salvation on the Neb-B takes away the main point of taking the Neb-B in the first place in a squadron heavy build like this. If you don't think Yavaris is worth the time, then the double assault build seems like the better option.

salvation hits a lot harder than your typical fattie if you enable him (raymus for extra die + re-roll) and don't get screwed by the dice, all for 7 point less than the B variant (if support refit, otherwise he's 1 point less). Only the Mk A outputs similar levels firing out of two arcs at medium range, and paragon exceeds it (but, of course, has to be enabled)

in squadron heavy builds, though, Yavaris is obviously the go to option

Garm and Paragon aren't worth the points imo

Needs another whale! And another title!

garm's possibly not worth it (I do enjoy the flexibility)

paragon, though? At 5 points? Heresy!

highly recommend Xs and/or Bs with Haven. Their slowness becomes kind of an asset because it turns haven into a sort of moving barricade of "nope"

otherwise, when in doubt just X or A wing

I really like the sound of a flying barricade of nope

I just have issues getting paragon to go off, or I roll blanks with the blacks... I'll try it more eventually though.

I would recommend the second list, but change out Garm for Dodonna, Luke is great with him and with the saved points you could throw XI7 or XX-9 Turbos on Paragon to boost the hitting power

Paragon is absolutely worth the points.

People often fit enhanced armaments (10 pts for a red die) on things. Paragon for 5, is basically an enhanced armaments that gives you a BLACK die at ANY RANGE, as long as you double-arc (or advanced gunnery!) the target. That's not hard for the whale, and an extreme bargain! Better yet, it makes concentrate fire utterly brutal, as you get an extra black die!

I'll never fly a non-titled AF2. It's either going to be Paragon or Haven, forever.

So wait which is better weapons for Paragon? I have been outfitting mine with enhanced armaments.

I'd say if you have intel officer, enhanced armaments are perfect. The XI7s are best on a budget.

In other news, I updated the lists in the first post based on the feedback.