Does anyone have a thematic suggestion for improving the viability of the Scyk? By 'thematic', I'm not asking for how many points to discount it -- too bland for a house ruler like myself. is there a tweak suggestion that makes the Scyk Scykier?
How do you love the M3-A?
Apparently it gets no love
Could always go for something like a 3 point Title that allows the same weapon selections but also an extra modification slot with 1-2 point discounts on mods.
Edited by KilkakonGive the Scyk a 1 straight green on its dial and make the missile and torpedo versions of the title free.
Put Laetin in a Starviper with an EPT slot, put Serissu in a Firespray and create named pilots that have abilities that work well on an ultra glass-cannon that has an actual cannon.
Edited by WWHSDAlternately, just give all Scyks the effect of Autothrusters natively. That pretty much eats up the amount that they are overcosted by, make Serissu and Laetin's abilities work much better and gives the naked a Scyk a niche as a swarm that laughs at turrets and the Heavy Scyk with a Cannon becomes an awesome sniper that opponents can't afford to let stay at range 3.
definitely no love.
see threads.
i tried my best to play it without house rule buffing it: it sucks. i hate it.
At the moment I don't love it, its an expensive glass cannon.
More named ships. Some with offensive abilities and at least one with a Howlrunner style group ability.
A Chardaan style refit that reduces point cost by 2 and adds an illicit slot.
A Virago style card to add a second elite slot for named pilots (there is already a squadron PS5 ship with an elite slot).
More named ships. Some with offensive abilities and at least one with a Howlrunner style group ability.
A Chardaan style refit that reduces point cost by 2 and adds an illicit slot.
A Virago style card to add a second elite slot for named pilots (there is already a squadron PS5 ship with an elite slot).
Autothrusters alone would make it far more viable.
Yes basically you are forced to run it naked otherwise it's an ultra glass cannon. Was worried about this before it came out actually. Allowing it to take cannons with a 2 point point title was a bad move in my opinion because now you've got an 18 point tie fighter (yes I know there is a shield but that only helps against crits) with the cheapest cannon or 20 with mangler. It's just a lot of points and too much reliance on green dice performing. Imo they are only somewhat good when flying them cheap. Just my opinion tho.
Yes basically you are forced to run it naked otherwise it's an ultra glass cannon. Was worried about this before it came out actually. Allowing it to take cannons with a 2 point point title was a bad move in my opinion because now you've got an 18 point tie fighter (yes I know there is a shield but that only helps against crits) with the cheapest cannon or 20 with mangler. It's just a lot of points and too much reliance on green dice performing. Imo they are only somewhat good when flying them cheap. Just my opinion tho.
Laetin is the best pilot of them all. Independant and brutal. Getting the free evade after each missed attack is huge against gunner/Luke/IG builds. It also helps against swarm builds that are throwing two dice. All you need is to roll AVERAGE (1/3) on evades after the first attack and you will evade all 8 shots.
Laetin asheara with stealth device and cheap cannon is ok
The way I see it. You cannot use it as a light fighter I think FFG intended you to be able too, but it doesn't work.
Obviously, they made it 14 pts since you cannot take 5 with Heavy Laser and hull upgrade.
My Fix:
It should have made be 12 points, but come with a title that allowed you to equip any one of the following but also added 1 point to any missle or torp and 4 points to any cannon you want to take. Which is basically what it is now, but it could also be used as a swarm naked.
Right now to be effective you must take the title and add +1 hull with a cannon every time.
You cannot use it as a traditional swarm fighter and as long as you realize it will basically cost like an X-wing, but have a cannon, the ship is fine.
Start on angles when you deploy. I look at it as the current role of the x-wing, bringing one along with something else is fine, but by itself it just cannot compete. It's like the 6th man, it's basically a sniper support ship. Stay at long range and snipe away.
I like the Tansarii with mangler and ept (Calculation) and +1 Hull, it's an annoying little ship, that hits really hard. Since it is shooting way down in the PS, most of the time its firing at ships without tokens or shields.
Edited by eagletsi111
Edited by Jaden CkastLaetin is the best pilot of them all. Independant and brutal. Getting the free evade after each missed attack is huge against gunner/Luke/IG builds. It also helps against swarm builds that are throwing two dice. All you need is to roll AVERAGE (1/3) on evades after the first attack and you will evade all 8 shots.Yes basically you are forced to run it naked otherwise it's an ultra glass cannon. Was worried about this before it came out actually. Allowing it to take cannons with a 2 point point title was a bad move in my opinion because now you've got an 18 point tie fighter (yes I know there is a shield but that only helps against crits) with the cheapest cannon or 20 with mangler. It's just a lot of points and too much reliance on green dice performing. Imo they are only somewhat good when flying them cheap. Just my opinion tho.
Heavy Syck:
(Title)
Add Missile, Torpedo, and Canon Slot. +1 to Hull.
3 Points
Autothrusters alone would make it far more viable.
That could be solved with a second modification slot or the Chardaan refit adding a boost action.
Auto thrusters would be a big help.
I have used 2 with mangler canons (no other upgrades) pretty effectively. I use them as flankers and keep them at range 3 if possible. Slow approaches to Decimaters works well also. They seem to be perceived as a low threat and typically are only taken out as a target of opportunity when my tank or support ships cannot be effectively targeted.
The only other thing I've seen them played with is HLCs... but I can't justify the cost for that big of a glass canon. I've not had them "one shot'ed" yet (I once had Whisper killed in a single shot though, so I know it can happen.)
I just posted this on the other thread:
Slug Thrower Cannon: 1pt, Scum Only
Range 1-3, 3 red
You may spend a focus token to reroll all your dice
------------------------
Dirty Scyk: modification, 1 pt, Scyk only
Add 1 illicit slot and 1 modification slot to your upgrade bar
Cannon is dirt cheap and gives you some teeth, mod gives you a slot you should have had already. Combined you end up with an Alpha interceptor with a little better gun, no boost, worse dial, +1 PS, and an illicit slot. Since the alpha interceptor isn't exactly tearing the world apart, it still might not be enough but it would be interesting.
---------------------------
Light Scyk Title: -2 pts, Scyk only
Begin the game with one less shield token. The first time this ship is dealt a damage card, discard that card. Gain an illicit upgrade slot
---------------------------
Outlaw Ace: 0pt, title. PS 3 +
Your upgrade bar gains the EPT slot. Each time you activate your EPT roll 1 red dice., on a critical hit flip that card upside down. You or another friendly ship may spend an action to flip it over.
Seems there are two topic about this now so ill just answer here as well.
To the OP: I don't realyl get what you mean by themetical change without points discounts/changes. It won't get better by talking about the fluff.
A new Cannon would only fix it for exactly that weapon. A new title would compete with the other. Base stat lines are out of question, they wont do that. New pilots will only fix themselves. A modification takes away the slot (e.g. to get a hull upgrade).
So really what are the options concidering FFG doesnt want to change their fixing styles. Maybe if its an upgraded heavy-title that makes the old one obsolete. Given their decitions so far i guess a modification would still be the most propable solution.
My suggestion would be a mod that allows you to take a second mod and gives you bonuses to make the ship more viable while still giving you the options of mods.
Something like:
Reinforced Hull (Modification) 1 Point (Limited; not unique!)
You can equip another modification.
Increase your hull value by 1.
Or
Experimental Autothrusters (Mod) 0 Point (Limited; not unique!)
You can equip another Modification.
When defending, if you are beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker's firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to an evade result. Discard this card after using it the 2nd time in one game.
Edited by CaineHoABy "thematic" I mean house rules that don't just subtract 2 points from the base cost of the ship, but instead I am trying to divine the intent of the designers in introducing this new ship and help it do what it was meant to do.
Here are some themes I believe I see:
1) The Scyk was intended to have two distinct ways to play it. One was naked as a Scum TIE Fighter (this is the reason I bought 4 of them and another poster bought 8, but the ship has proven incapable of filling this role). Serissu looks like the designers' attempt at a Scum Howlrunner. The other intended role seems to have been as an extreme glass cannon - a gnat with a bazooka. Laetin's pilot skill looks to me like it was intended to allow the glass cannon to have some annoying survivability even when flying alone.
2) The designers seem to have heavily weighted the Scyk to be green dice dependent. Both named pilot skills focus on the green dice. We all know how fickle these are, so I interpret this as the designers emphasizing the wide variability in performance they wanted for these ships. Contrast this with the introduction of upgrades that minimize randomness, like Advanced Targeting Computers and Accuracy Correctors. Instead, the designers threw Stealth Device into the M3-A expansion (MOAR green dice!).
3) A theme I see with Scum in general is a willingness to destroy their own ships in order to gain an advantage over their opponent. I just love the thematic aspect of Xizor's damage redirection skill. Bodyguard fits this theme, although it doesn't see much use. Feedback Array and Dead Man's Switch are perfectly thematic. But this theme doesn't seem to extend to the Scyk at all. For one, it doesn't have an Illicit Upgrade slot. And I don't think there have been any lists using Scyks as Xizor's meat shield. Z-95's are far better for this role.
I haven't decided on what house rules I think would help the Scyk find a unique and viable role yet, so I posted this thread. After reading others' suggestions, I'm toying with a "Light Scyk" title to help it fill the swarm role and then maybe replacing the "Heavy Scyk" title with my own version to make that gnat with a bazooka be just a little more annoying.
And at the moment, I'm favoring something like a built in or discounted Stealth Device in order to make the Scyk thematically heavily green dice dependent but up its survivability (a very common gripe about the ship). I'm also bouncing around an idea for "Autothrusters Lite" that removes the guaranteed nature of Autothrusters (Blank turns to Evade) but also doesn't require the Boost action in the ship's action bar.