PzVIE said:

Why restricting yourself? Steampunk devices have a proud tradition in WFRP. Well everybody to his own, but if you decide not to use them, you negate this aspect of the setting. Weird steam- or warppowered gadgets are one of the hallmarks of Warhammer. BTW: servas Landsmann.

superklaus said:

Besides which, Steam Tank and Gyrocopters are really rare and, even if one is around, it's unlikely the PCs will get to interact with it. So just not involving them is fine.

phobiandarkmoon said:

No, no, no... The reason you put a steam tank or a gyrocopter in is specifically so that your PCs can interact with it. They're big exciting scene-stealing macguffins. Why wouldn't you let the PCs get their hands on one?

They need to break a friend out of an impenetrable jail? The new steam tank is being demonstrated tomorrow! Nobody would think to steal it, right?

Or the components of an old busted gyrocopter are spied in a breaker's yard in the first act, and as fire grips the tower in the third act... There's just enough time for the old whirlybird to take one last flight to save the burgher's daughter.

These kind of things are bold, exciting, cinematic, and rewarding; they got to drive the tank ! Or fly the gyrocopter !! Or Both !!! The Warhammer world is a boon for those kind of set pieces. I'd not be too quick to llimit them.

Mark

marklawford said:

While this is true, it wouldn't find it's way into my game only because I worry to much about facts and reality (at least when it comes to the parts of the world that do equate to our own). Seeing how the players would usually have no experience driving, controlling, or even operating these, devices they would have a hard time being able to actually pull off such thing.

People can't just jump into a tank and operate it without prior training. They would need to understand how all of it works then it would be a process of trail and error in order to learn how to properly steer it. While this is going on, the guards would be alerted to the attempted theft and move in to stop it (of course this is giving that your comment was right and they were dumb enough not to post a strong guard on one of the few existing Steam tanks when they have enemies all over).

The same thing would be said for the gyrocopter, they would most likely have no knowledge on how to properly fly and thus they would crash it in the attempt.

phobiandarkmoon said:

phobiandarkmoon said:

Well, with this argumentation you could also deny everything which is rare in the empire to the players. I find this boring. Ok maybe your players are just the type of players which do some river trade or plant some crops in the fields. My players are different. They ARE adventurers. They meet the unexpected and sometimes weird. ATM I have even an mad dwarfen inventor in my WH group who do the weird stuff ala McGiver. Different playing style I guess. But independently from the playing style, fact is that in the vanilla WH world as GW flashed it out, the steampunk devices do exist.

Theoderek said:

While I agree, to operate a Steam Tank or Gyrocopter, you need to have the Engineering Skill (if such a thing will still exist, if not, I doubt you'll be able to move it), it would be fun for when the adventurers decide to help a noble in a territorial dispute with another noble to have them... "interact" with a Steam Tank. Just think of the looks on their little faces when they see a Steam Tank ride up the battle field and they go "oh BLEEP! They have a Steam Tank! Time to get the BLEEP out of here!".

Just remember the golden rule of WFRP, if the PC's can use it, so can the bad guys...

sudden real said:

Your absolutely right, I would not bar them from having interaction at all with a steam tank or similar technology. I was mostly responding to the comment further up about how he runs the game and just putting in how I tend to run my groups. Different groups have different focuses for their games and both my players as well as myself like to have a lot of realism in our games instead of going for a more movie/action feel. The realism help us feel more like we are in a real world.

Now just because the party doesn't have the skills to operate a steam tank, does not bar them from assisting the tank crew in a battle by replacing the missing/dead gunners when they have the skills to operate cannons. After all, like others have said, the steampunk aspect is one of the allures of that Empire and the Dwarves.

Theoderek said:

Theoderek said:

But... that's no fun.

If your PCs wanted to actually have a steam tank then you'd be within your rights to ask for all manner of skills, rolls, compromises. But if you set the steam tank up as a set piece, which can only be gained through outsmarting the squadron posted to guard the tank, then you can just hand-wave the actual piloting of the damned thing. Make up whatever checks you need during that scene, but base them on your group's skills (though, with the case of my gyrocopter, you'd probably wait until someone did actually have some kind of engineering nous before running that story).

And you'd probably have a fight scene on top of the moving tank as the squadron race back to their charge and try to retake it before either the duke finds out or the market square is levelled.

And in the unlikey event that the PCs don't destroy the tank during your carefully provisioned jailbreak scenario, then you simply have scenes like:

Erik: You said you could drive this thing

Marko: I know

Erik: In fact, as I remember, you did drive this thing!

Marko: I know!

Erik: Yesterday!

Marko: I know, but I... I think I broke it.

Erik: You broke it? How could you break it? It's made of solid steel.

And that's the end of the steam tank. Unless you don't mind them having it, in which case cue the story where they hide the tank and go looking for the drunk ex-engineer who built the prototype before his evil half-brother usurped his position and perfected the machine (putting the drunk ex-engineer back into his position after exposing the half-brother as the cultist who sabotaged the prototype is entirely optional).

Warhammer is a world in which mad inventions are made real. And if such things as steam tanks exist in this world, then they're too fantastic and too much fun to be garnished with a "do not touch the exhibits" sign. Let the players get in there and raise merry hell.

sudden real said:

Minor point that I don't think has been brought up yet... the Empire can't build a Steam Tank. Twelve were designed and built centuries ago by the exiled Tilean Engineer Leonardo di Miragliano. Eight remain, repaired (and occasionally modified) as best the Engineers of the modern Empire can manage, but none have been able to replicate di Miragliano's genius and create a brand new Steam Tank.

Dwarfs, on the other hand, have a better grasp of steam power, but it's use is still relatively limited due mainly to traditionalism and a reluctance to accept innovation.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

jadrax said:

One person did (though it's clockwork, not steam powered), and I'm still of the opinion that the creation of the Equine Effigy of Dynamic Locomotion isn't entirely what it seems...

Invent it yourself

I have a good idea, why not make an engineer as your next character and invent the whole shenanig bicycle? Now imaginate a scholar on some bicycle tread for his life as beastmen pursue him through the dark woodland road.

Again this is plausible, we have been sailing on the waters for thousand of years before we invented the floating vest. I don`t see why somebody can invent a bicycle, its fairly simple mechanics (remember the first edition of them had no shifting gears). It is within technological range in the warhammer universe.

take a look at some of the earliest bicycles they are quite hilarous, picture one of those bicycles in the pursuing scenario from above.

Tread harris, tread for your life. ha ha ha