Sam, what list would you run if you wanted to try Skirmish?

I've had a lot of fun with this:

Chewie (15)

Luke (10)

Sabs (5)

Jyn Odan (5)

Gideon (3)

C-3PO (2)

If a store wants to introduce IA then they need to bend the rules a little, printed maps and deployment cards (so 4x core is unnecessary), maybe a limit of 1x core, allow WOTC proxies for friendly matches etc.

It's possible to build a small community without a huge price tag, as long as you play by the official rules for big tournaments.

In my club (>30 players) Warmachine/Hordes is the number one system. The cost of tournament legal lists (2 x 50 points) is over 400 $. I don't think, this is the problem for wargamers.

The low number of top tier lists definitely IS a problem.

Many of our players were searching for a secondary game, and I was trying to establish Imperial Assault Skirmish. Right now, it seems as if this won't happen, because there are too many other games with more different playable units / better balancing. It's a pity, 'cause I love this game ...

It's a bit of a weird hypocrisy that potential new players are put off by the cost of the core set and the fact that the only competitive list is 4x4.

It's just not true that the only competitive list is 4x4. Sure, it's the best, but it's not the only option. Plus as long as the players local to you don't include anyone who bought x4 core sets, just to be able to run that list, then you're local meta should be great.

As much as I'm happy for the game's wider success and for the wider gaming community to have access to it, in an ideal world, for us 'skirmish only' players, Campaign mode wouldn't exist.

Imagine that. If Imperial Assault had a core set like X-Wing's, 'm sure Imperial Assault skirmish would be on the way to being as big as X-Wing.

Now the question is: Why is it that a game like Armada taking off, when it has a core set the same price as Imperial Assault's, but that provides far less content, a very incomplete game experience and gives far less value. Whereas Imperial Assault's core set is far better and yet the game isn't taking off?

Perhaps because it's been primarily advertised as a campaign game, and to some extent a two-in-one game. Not as a Miniture Skirmish game. I know I didn't buy into it, because I already have Descent and all it's stuff, and didn't see a reason to have another of the same game. Not until I actually read a lot about the Skirmish game, saw some TC videos and then actually tried it. It felt completely like Blood Bowl with guns and starwars, and I was hooked!

He wasn't asking me about coop (about that I have nothing but glowing nice things to say) but the viability of starting a tourney out of thin air... without already interested core players.

I love the game, but I'm not dropping *another $120 on core sets so I can play their vestigial skirmish mode. The whole idea of buying multiple core sets is totally repugnant to me. It reeks of forced scarcity and other ethically questionable business models.

I cannot in good conscience recommend someone to buy the game just for the skirmish any more than I could recommend Black Ops 3 to someone for the parkour foot racing mode.

Any game with random content packs is forced scarcity, and often far worse than the FFG model. At least you know what you're getting. Trading card games are a far bigger cash grab.

Like I said before, a core in the shop could get players to bite. I don't own multiple cores and I do fine as a rebel player. But like I said above, multiple core sets are generally a necessity with any of the competitive FFG titles. Armada really requires 2, and it's the same high price as IA WITHOUT a lot of playability out of the box. The LCGs arts fundamentally different, Netrunner and Game of Thrones, multiple cores are all but a necessity. My primary game is X wing. First of all, there are 2 legal core sets in circulation now. You kinda need both of them. Before that you'd be much better off having 2 of the original core, especially if you play mostly Empire.

I'm not advocating buying 4, but I don't play empire I play Rebel Blast and Mercs. I am DEFINITELY saying most players need more than one, which applies for every game they sell and is way better than a cash grab random content distribution system.

Perhaps because it's been primarily advertised as a campaign game

Nailed it!

I bought the game primarily for the campaign aspect, the skirmish mode was just an added bonus!

The skirmish itch is currently being scratched by X-wing, though Return to Hoth’s multiplayer skirmish mode sounds very interesting.

Plus, command card deck building using 1 of everything is difficult for my group because you can’t proxy command cards like X-wing’s upgrades.

Command cards are supposed to be a secret but it’s easy to differentiate between a proxy and the real card!

My faulting the forced scarcity again goes back to the buy in. If a merchant decides to buy 10 packs of magic cards, or a comparable number of heroclix (or some other random thing) its a calculated risk that some of the things you get will be valuable and you can at least cover the price of the investment because even the weaker items have a market to *somebody.

That is not true with IA.

As a merchant I can buy a core set, break it down to components, sell the Royal Guards, and then sit on the remaining 90% of the content that nobody wants. That gives me two options as the merchant. Either I artificially inflate the price of the guards to cover the investment, or I dont bother with the whole thing cause I have no interest in losing money.

That's what I mean by artificial scarcity. This isn't Warhammer where you can but armies by the set, or Star Wars minis where there is a robust online market for pieces (even to this day). This isn't MTG where even rare means usually somebody in your local shop has one. Im talking more scarce that that. That's the sort of scarcity I'm talking about, where its not viable for a merchant to bother carrying the product in the way that supports the meta.

If there aren't a huge number of players in your Area, the meta is simply irrelevant. But what you want, have fun with it and your friends.They could even have a small tournament. Those players likely won't win a regional, but they'll have a good time playing with eachother.

Isn't that why we play games?

I think there's at least 1 viable list contained in the core for skirmish and then 4 plus passable list variations. The buy-in is super good for what you get. I think it's the distaste of 4x4, which I think any tournament trying to get off the ground should ban. I think also if a shop is trying to gain more players, the players already active should offer that (At their digression) to let new players use what pieces they are not using. I have two dice sets and a lot of minis not needed for the 1 competitive list I'm stoked on now. I also have more cards than minis, and if a player wanted to use a card and I was already using the mini, I'd allow them to use an old Star Wars mini as proxy. (No cardboard though... that's no fun)

As a merchant I can buy a core set, break it down to components, sell the Royal Guards, and then sit on the remaining 90% of the content that nobody wants. That gives me two options as the merchant. Either I artificially inflate the price of the guards to cover the investment, or I dont bother with the whole thing cause I have no interest in losing money.

This is not correct. Actually, I bought 4 core sets and sold everything I didn't want to keep. I kept the first 2 core sets completely and sold nearly everything except for some Deployment Cards and all the tokens from set 3 and 4. Additionally, I kept some more Merc figures (Trandoshans and Nexus). I wanted to be able to play any possible list, including 6 Nexus etc.

From all I've put up at eBay, there is only one Probe Droid left. Everything else has left the house for fair prices.

In my experience, if you buy one core set and sell all components seperatly, there will be a plus on your account ...

From all I've put up at eBay, there is only one Probe Droid left. Everything else has left the house for fair prices.

In my experience, if you buy one core set and sell all components seperatly, there will be a plus on your account ...

I keep wondering why the heck doesn't FFG sell the figures with cards separately. They don't need to put them in fancy packs in a store, just sell them as "replacements" like these guys do their games: https://greaterthangames.com/store/category/sentinel-comics-games/replacements