I like my objectives, so I typically pass initiative.

I'm surprised how many rebel players want to play Hyperspace Assault with my Demolisher on the field. That is by far the most popular choice, and I'm ok with that.

Are they crazy?

I guess they lost their Fleet Ambush

With some objectives (Advanced Gunnery comes to mind) I would much, much prefer to be the second player. With other objectives (Precision Strike - a concentrate fire toke on turn one...), I would much rather be first player for activation advantage as the second player boost is rather minuscule.

I like my objectives, so I typically pass initiative.

I'm surprised how many rebel players want to play Hyperspace Assault with my Demolisher on the field. That is by far the most popular choice, and I'm ok with that.

Are they crazy?

Then he made a second error and activated his Neb first. I could hit his AF side arc with my Demolisher front and side arc. He took 4 damage, so I rammed him twice.

My second game featured almost the same setup, but I placed my Glad less well, and it cost me the opportunity to knock out the AF in one activation. Oh well.

But yeah, not sure why anyone is picking that. Minefields is annoying, I get it... But seriously? It can't be worse than Hyperspace Assault.

Minefields is annoying, I get it... But seriously? It can't be worse than Hyperspace Assault.

I dunno, if I have 5-6 ships on the table minefields could be pretty annoying. Hyperspace can be painful for the first player, but as long as you keep where the spawn points are in mind, you have an advantage in numbers.

What it boils down to is that your initiative bid is important.

I could argue that if you just build your list in preparation for any Red Objective as Player 1...you will do fine.

Advanced Gunnery seems to be my go to mission for red as second player.

What it boils down to is that your initiative bid is important.

I could argue that if you just build your list in preparation for any Red Objective as Player 1...you will do fine.

Advanced Gunnery seems to be my go to mission for red as second player.

The only way any first player is selecting Advanced Gunnery from the second players objectives is if the other two are just ball busting or the second players fleet isn't suited to Advanced Gunnery.

It is just a very large advantage to give up to any fleet with a VSD or AF, I see it being one of the least selected objectives as a result. Same with Hyperspace Assault.

What it boils down to is that your initiative bid is important.

I could argue that if you just build your list in preparation for any Red Objective as Player 1...you will do fine.

Advanced Gunnery seems to be my go to mission for red as second player.

The only way any first player is selecting Advanced Gunnery from the second players objectives is if the other two are just ball busting or the second players fleet isn't suited to Advanced Gunnery.

It is just a very large advantage to give up to any fleet with a VSD or AF, I see it being one of the least selected objectives as a result. Same with Hyperspace Assault.

So you would suggest not to build a list that can just do the red missions?

You said that Advanced Gunnery is your go to mission as the second player. The second player doesn't get to pick the objective, how can you have a go to objective as the second player?

What I said is no sane first player is ever going to select Advanced Gunnery, except in cornercases, because it is such a large advantage to the second player.

You said that Advanced Gunnery is your go to mission as the second player. The second player doesn't get to pick the objective, how can you have a go to objective as the second player?

What I said is no sane first player is ever going to select Advanced Gunnery, except in cornercases, because it is such a large advantage to the second player.

So is it a good idea to build a fleet that only expects to use a red mission?

You said that Advanced Gunnery is your go to mission as the second player. The second player doesn't get to pick the objective, how can you have a go to objective as the second player?

What I said is no sane first player is ever going to select Advanced Gunnery, except in cornercases, because it is such a large advantage to the second player.

So is it a good idea to build a fleet that only expects to use a red mission?

I'd say no, as your opponent will pick something else if the red mission is the obvious advantage. You want something that is balanced for all three mission variants.

Or conversely you want to force your opponent into selecting a certain mission, as the other two are completely non-option.

So you take Advanced Gunnery and Hyperspace Assault, which forces them to pick whatever Blue mission you have selected because it can't be as favorable to you as those other two are.

Part and parcel of the "always go red" theory is that you have a) made a full 300 point list while your opponent is taking less than 300 in order to "win" the bid for second player; b) you've built the list with taking advantage of going first (and destroying fleets) in mind; and c) since the vast majority seem focused on "winning" the bid for second player, you're essentially guaranteeing you'll never play your own scenarios and always have the ability to pick the opponent's red if it suits you.

There may be times - such as the oft mentioned Advanced Gunnery / VSD situation - where you opt out of the red. Chances are, however, if you've focused on taking a lot of ships in order to enjoy the first player advantage, several of the blue and yellow scenarios are also appealing.

That said, playing against an Advanced Gunnery VSD where the other ship is Demolisher and there are some squadrons thrown in doesn't worry me. That's a two ship list.

Yeah, has anyone as first player actually picked Advanced Gunnery?

I could maybe see it if I was facing a corvette swarm, or just Demolishers, but against a VSD, AF 2 , or Salvation (maybe generic nebs), very bad choice.

Plus I can buy the player 1 advantage for 7 points (gunnery team)

First player favors a single CR90 in a rebel force. Position it at the end of one turn, then activate it first the following turn. It's maneuverability plus speed should let it escape with impunity. As second player, it's much more dangerous to get close range shots in a CR90.

On the other hand, that's a small and situational advantage. Second player, especially in certain scenarios, is a much greater advantage. The first examples I can think of are Hyperspace Assault and Superior Positions.

In general, I really like going first. I haven't played a ton of games, but in almost every game I've played there have been situations where a ship is either destroyed or crippled because the other player got the first shot that round. Taking a close range shot and then being able to fly past your opponent just feels awesome.These are often game changing moments. Plus, when you factor in fighter initiative, first player is even more valuable.

Advanced Gunnery and Hyperspace Assault are exceptions. In those scenarios I think going second is the better option. And, if I'm first player, I'm pretty much never going to choose those objectives.

Taking a close range shot and then being able to fly past your opponent just feels awesome.

Except, in this game, it seems to more often be "Take a long range shot and then have to fly closer". My experience is pretty limited, but in every game I have played so far I have desperately wanted to be able to delay my ship activations until after the enemy has moved instead of activating my ships first.

Taking a close range shot and then being able to fly past your opponent just feels awesome.

Except, in this game, it seems to more often be "Take a long range shot and then have to fly closer". My experience is pretty limited, but in every game I have played so far I have desperately wanted to be able to delay my ship activations until after the enemy has moved instead of activating my ships first.

this is true up to the point where you want to enact SmogLord's scenario

VSD front arcs provide a lot of impetus/regret