@MJ: I did not mean that it´s easy to calculate the correct cost of the various ships. What I was talking about is that it is easy to to see that the model of calculation is off.

I like the game, but I don't like the rules.

OK.

The game is the rules.

I don't quite get why people feel the need to complain about this sort of thing. I personally dislike Blackjack as a game, i would not go over to a blackjack forum to offer suggestions as how (essentially) all the fans are wrong and the game should be fundamentally changed for my specific benefit.

I have purchased all of Star wars Armada including all of wave 1. In fact just stained my 6 foot oak top for the 2 mats.

But ficklgreendice and company you need to accept this game is NOT armada.

some folks have posted repeatedly how great armada is and how x wing is lacking in this or that. Go play that game then folks. I have both and I'm not going to complain about either one not being just like the other.

...

Ficklegreendice isn't promoting Armada mechanics. If anything, he's defending X-wing's.

You really need to stop this childish witch hunt against a random stranger who you've never met and who has never wronged you in any way, shape or form.

Uh better take the meds quick .... If you cant handle my statement then walking out the door is a full on panic attack Im sure.

Anyways my statement holds. This game is not Armada. I have both and they are great. But there is no need to try to make one like the other. Period.

Ficklegreendice spends every thread complaining about this game, mostly turrets. Others also complain and this entire thread is based on trying to get x wing more like armada. Go visit the Armada threads like I do and there are plenty of comments from folks on this thread (ficklegreen and company) complaining about x wing. I believe I even saw your comments on armada forum in this regards?

Anyways both games are fun and making one like the other diminishes both.

Yeah but turrets do suck bantha poodoo.

There is such a thing as 'improved game design'. X-Wing is not a flawless game. Small touches, if only applied earlier (nobody is actually suggesting changes this late in the scene) would have avoided almost all the balance headache we've seen before, of 80%+ useless pilots and ships.

There is such a thing as 'improved game design'. X-Wing is not a flawless game. Small touches, if only applied earlier (nobody is actually suggesting changes this late in the scene) would have avoided almost all the balance headache we've seen before, of 80%+ useless pilots and ships.

That doesn't necessarily make your ideas better.

There is such a thing as 'improved game design'. X-Wing is not a flawless game. Small touches, if only applied earlier (nobody is actually suggesting changes this late in the scene) would have avoided almost all the balance headache we've seen before, of 80%+ useless pilots and ships.

Except you are introducing more variables to the equation, which is more opportunity for balance to break down. Not less.

Actually, given comparisons to war machine, I want xwing miniatures to be an Armada + war machine hybrid!

Ain't I a stinker ?

Honestly, I really don't mind the currently implemented mechanics apart from the primary weapon turret (though only the 3 dice ones do anything worth complaining about). My feud with green dice is mostly a silly thing that only occasional leads to some irksome moments on the table.

While I much prefer WM or Armada's system of dice and understand that xwing's system doesn't leave much room for varience given the MASSIVE difference a single dice makes, I also don't really care.

I play xwing miniatures for the mostly RNG free part: manueverong, positioning, accounting for yourself your opponent and the obstacles, planning ahead, predicting your enemy's moves...

That is the most involving part of the game for me and it is BY FAR the greater part of xwing miniatures. it's also not an experience you can replicate anywhere else.

Wm and armada likewise, but the way in which they involve their players is wholly unlike xwing's.

Of course this also means you could do away with green archnemesis, build and balance a different stat system, and still keep most of the game intact

But they really don't need to, yet

An HLC for example, is superior in all ways vs all targets than a 3-dice attack. It's better vs big, chunky ships, and it's better vs light fighters.

False. The Autoblaster is drastically better against high-agility, lightly armored targets. 3 hits scores an automatic kill against TIEs/Scyks. 4 hits with an HLC guarantees 1 damage tops - 0, if they have an evade token.

I don't think nearly as many people believe the game is as "broken" as you do, and the attack mechanic is perfectly fine as is.

An HLC for example, is superior in all ways vs all targets than a 3-dice attack. It's better vs big, chunky ships, and it's better vs light fighters.

False. The Autoblaster is drastically better against high-agility, lightly armored targets. 3 hits scores an automatic kill against TIEs/Scyks. 4 hits with an HLC guarantees 1 damage tops - 0, if they have an evade token.

I don't think nearly as many people believe the game is as "broken" as you do, and the attack mechanic is perfectly fine as is.

Thank goodness for our autoblaster dominated meta, am I right? Or our world of weird probability where 3 AGI green dice ships always stop 3 damage per roll?

Autoblaster statistically is still worse at RNG1 (where it's only allowed to be used!) than doing your 4 damage attack.

By the way, you missed the point. Like a lot of folks with reading comprehension issues in this thread The HLC is a superior weapon against all targets than your base '3 attack primary weapon'. It's better vs big targets AND small. Not once was Autoblaster mentioned. Even then, remember this: 3 Evade dice are only getting you an expected value of 1 evade! Or 1.8 with focus. Against 3 Autoblaster attacks, vs 4 Primary Weapon attacks, It's actually very close dead even for expected damage, since autoblaster crits CAN be dodged!

Basically, autoblaster is a worthless upgrade on ATK3 ships. It only gives you the illusion of more firepower, while actually being not different at all.

An HLC for example, is superior in all ways vs all targets than a 3-dice attack. It's better vs big, chunky ships, and it's better vs light fighters.

False. The Autoblaster is drastically better against high-agility, lightly armored targets. 3 hits scores an automatic kill against TIEs/Scyks. 4 hits with an HLC guarantees 1 damage tops - 0, if they have an evade token.

I don't think nearly as many people believe the game is as "broken" as you do, and the attack mechanic is perfectly fine as is.

By the way, you missed the point. Like a lot of folks with reading comprehension issues in this thread The HLC is a superior weapon against all targets than your base '3 attack primary weapon'. It's better vs big targets AND small. Not once was Autoblaster mentioned.

I didn't modify your original comment that I quoted. You didn't specify "primary weapon" there, so don't give me that "reading comprehension" junk. In a normal situation against a 3-hp TIE or something at range 1, if he's not brain-dead, he's gonna have a focus or evade token. The odds of scoring 3 or 4 red hits and him only dodging 0 or 1 of them is not as good as the chance of rolling hits/focus with an autoblaster. But fine, this isn't about Autoblasters.

I'm still not sure how this is ground-breaking or exposing broken gameplay... Yeah, the idea is an HLC is supposed to be awesome. It's the most expensive upgrade in standard play right now.

I'm still not sure how this is ground-breaking or exposing broken gameplay... Yeah, the idea is an HLC is supposed to be awesome. It's the most expensive upgrade in standard play right now.

This issue is that OP (and others) don't like that weapons in this game are (generally speaking) straight up better or worse than each other. It doesn't have the depth, for example, of choosing between 40k's high STR, armor penetrating Starcannon and a rapid-fire Scatter Laser. Both may be worth the same amount of points, but they have different roles and benefits. X-Wing doesn't really have that--HLC is the best because more red dice is always better than less.

That said, the red/green dice system is part of the elegance of X-Wing. We don't have to worry about following the minutiae of every list. (Does his Wedge have Tibanna gas or just regular blasters? Did Luke already use his cortosis shielding?) Instead, ships have an attack value that incorporates a number of things (speed, surprise, power) and keeps the game simple and focused on the parts that we all like--the Flightpath System.

I'm still not sure how this is ground-breaking or exposing broken gameplay... Yeah, the idea is an HLC is supposed to be awesome. It's the most expensive upgrade in standard play right now.

This issue is that OP (and others) don't like that weapons in this game are (generally speaking) straight up better or worse than each other. It doesn't have the depth, for example, of choosing between 40k's high STR, armor penetrating Starcannon and a rapid-fire Scatter Laser. Both may be worth the same amount of points, but they have different roles and benefits. X-Wing doesn't really have that--HLC is the best because more red dice is always better than less.

That said, the red/green dice system is part of the elegance of X-Wing. We don't have to worry about following the minutiae of every list. (Does his Wedge have Tibanna gas or just regular blasters? Did Luke already use his cortosis shielding?) Instead, ships have an attack value that incorporates a number of things (speed, surprise, power) and keeps the game simple and focused on the parts that we all like--the Flightpath System.

Ah - that's much more understandable the way you put it.

And like you said, that's what's great about X-Wing. Not all ships are created equal - that's why they're different point costs, and again why the HLC upgrade is a beastly 7 points. It's why it's such a popular game. People like me, who really don't care for crazy convoluted board or tabletop games, can pick it up because hell, it's a Star Wars spaceship game with amazing models, and figure it out right away. It's got a number of challenging aspects to it simply with the maneuvering system, remembering upgrades/abilities at the right time, and making strategic choices with expendable upgrades, etc. We don't need it to be ANY more complicated than it is now. Each new wave adds a new level of possibility and complexity as it is.