Hello , if anyone has experienced the use of this upgrade against him, currently only usable on the Gladiator Star destroyer for the imperials ,

you will know how OP this can get , especially since anyone somewhat skilled in maneuvering ships does not even need the Demolisher title to support it,

so we`ll not even mention it for this little rant.

This little beauty can make a Star Destroyer more maneuverable than a corvette , and w/ expanded launchers ,

can oneshot a corvette (avg roll) and even a Neb b (cripple on avg) , especially since you have soo many options in using it .

From a conservative speed 2 (1 with maneuver token+Dial) , you can speed up to effectively better than speed 4 , move 3 with one extra click yaw turn if you did the command dial,

and then even do another move 1 with a full 2 clicks yaw turn , allowing just soo much freedom and threatened space in where you can toss those 4 black/2 reds.

You do not even need those maneuver dials , just the tokens , so you can stock up on concentrate firepower or squadron dials ,

and still use the extra speed and more importantly 2 click maneuver at the end, getting multiple ships in arc if theyre flying a formation for effect

like a neb b LR gunline shooting on 1 target , or dont even worry if youre first player . at least one ship wont get away , and oh, add 4 black dice as a second attack .

The thing is they just threaten so large of an area with certain death for smaller ships , even a MkII cant last long against firepower of that magnitude ,

especially bc its the glads choice of engagement and arc, the trade of fire is better for the imp, and raw damage dissipates blubber even without acc.

Although what gets me the most is the fact that its basically kill a small ship a turn , without a way i see to avoid it .

Especially builds that include 2 + Engine cracked Glads , perhaps w/ expanded launchers i feel just basically invalidate my nebs and corvettes,

and as i said , you dont even need Demolisher to do that , if i was the imp , i could definitely do lots of damage , since my ships are better in every way, including maneuver then.

Has anyone any ideas on how to handle these , especially as a neb b/small ship lover?

I dont see much of a way short of using bigger shipZ / use moar squadronZ , which seems like a bad way of handling this ,

since it just accepts them as OP without coming up with strategies , preferably tactics like formations,

ways of approaching which set up perhaps enough fire lanes to dissuade their attack ,

tho its still a Star Destroyer , takes some doing, and whats the first ship the imps gonna move you think?

So please if anyone has some insight , please share it here ..

A GSD with engine techs is only really dangerous, when it can use the techs. There are two main ways to use them: Throw navigate dials and throw navigate tokens. For the tokens, there are two ways: Tarkin and Wulff Yularen. Both are handable the same way: Ion cannon batteries, as they will rob the GSD of the nav token.

And the easiest way of handling them: Don't get yourself caught in black range after moving. If you are outside of his range, he won't shoot you.

You do know you can use engine techs on both the corvette and neb right? In the Rebs case you can use it as an aggressive ramming strategy or to better skirt around a ship and position for long range red dice assault. The Gladiator can't use most of its dice if it can't catch you and doesn't turn half as well as you do.

Veteran captain for the token. Can't steal a token I do not have yet. And as a GSD driver, I don't need that flexibility every turn, just the one...

We are the price you terrorists pay for having an ECM, enhanced battery, paragon AF. Serves you right.

Yeah well the NebulonB & Corvette have nowhere close to the firepower of the GSD.

My suggestion would to hold 2Bwings + Yarvaris close to the front along with fighter squadron and if those GSD's decide to fly in ... unload on them all the ships + Dodonna you should be raking in the crits enough to bring it to uselessness.

But if you spread out where they can launch a ship right at you and you are spread out so they can pick off what they want then that "want" is probably dead. However if you are clumped up you should be able to just destroy a GSD they aren't that tough.

The Gladiator does not one shot a corvette on average. Even with your 2red 4 black frontal attack you're getting 2 of your damage shunted to the side and averaging about 5 hits.

Beyond that you outrange the Gladiator significantly, and while it is fast and manueverable it still moves almost the same as Corvette, but with worse attack range. Don't let it get close. Use Bombers. Snipe it. You can't take it head to head, but you can still avoid it until it dies with relative ease.

Hello , if anyone has experienced the use of this upgrade against him, currently only usable on the Gladiator Star destroyer for the imperials ,

you will know how OP this can get , especially since anyone somewhat skilled in maneuvering ships does not even need the Demolisher title to support it,

so we`ll not even mention it for this little rant.

This little beauty can make a Star Destroyer more maneuverable than a corvette , and w/ expanded launchers ,

can oneshot a corvette (avg roll) and even a Neb b (cripple on avg) , especially since you have soo many options in using it .

From a conservative speed 2 (1 with maneuver token+Dial) , you can speed up to effectively better than speed 4 , move 3 with one extra click yaw turn if you did the command dial,

and then even do another move 1 with a full 2 clicks yaw turn , allowing just soo much freedom and threatened space in where you can toss those 4 black/2 reds.

You do not even need those maneuver dials , just the tokens , so you can stock up on concentrate firepower or squadron dials ,

and still use the extra speed and more importantly 2 click maneuver at the end, getting multiple ships in arc if theyre flying a formation for effect

like a neb b LR gunline shooting on 1 target , or dont even worry if youre first player . at least one ship wont get away , and oh, add 4 black dice as a second attack .

The thing is they just threaten so large of an area with certain death for smaller ships , even a MkII cant last long against firepower of that magnitude ,

especially bc its the glads choice of engagement and arc, the trade of fire is better for the imp, and raw damage dissipates blubber even without acc.

Although what gets me the most is the fact that its basically kill a small ship a turn , without a way i see to avoid it .

Especially builds that include 2 + Engine cracked Glads , perhaps w/ expanded launchers i feel just basically invalidate my nebs and corvettes,

and as i said , you dont even need Demolisher to do that , if i was the imp , i could definitely do lots of damage , since my ships are better in every way, including maneuver then.

Has anyone any ideas on how to handle these , especially as a neb b/small ship lover?

I dont see much of a way short of using bigger shipZ / use moar squadronZ , which seems like a bad way of handling this ,

since it just accepts them as OP without coming up with strategies , preferably tactics like formations,

ways of approaching which set up perhaps enough fire lanes to dissuade their attack ,

tho its still a Star Destroyer , takes some doing, and whats the first ship the imps gonna move you think?

So please if anyone has some insight , please share it here ..

A GSD with engine techs is only really dangerous, when it can use the techs. There are two main ways to use them: Throw navigate dials and throw navigate tokens. For the tokens, there are two ways: Tarkin and Wulff Yularen. Both are handable the same way: Ion cannon batteries, as they will rob the GSD of the nav token.

And the easiest way of handling them: Don't get yourself caught in black range after moving. If you are outside of his range, he won't shoot you.

You do know you can use engine techs on both the corvette and neb right? In the Rebs case you can use it as an aggressive ramming strategy or to better skirt around a ship and position for long range red dice assault. The Gladiator can't use most of its dice if it can't catch you and doesn't turn half as well as you do.

Please for the sake of argument , assume my boast of having the competency in maneuvering i claim to have is true ,

at least about me being good enough not to get in black range after moving .

if i am outside black range , he moves in and first ship he moves next turn fires , front and flank = THAT is his flexibility .

The expensive engine techs upgrade is both more effective on Glad , and more maneuverable , glad has speed 1 yaw 2 , neb has 1 and narrow front needing better turn ,

corvette has too weak guns, also this is also thinking of multiple glads with maybe wulf or tarkin , stealing tokens with ion cannons you say , id need to fire first for that too

good idea tho..

Yeah well the NebulonB & Corvette have nowhere close to the firepower of the GSD.

My suggestion would to hold 2Bwings + Yarvaris close to the front along with fighter squadron and if those GSD's decide to fly in ... unload on them all the ships + Dodonna you should be raking in the crits enough to bring it to uselessness.

But if you spread out where they can launch a ship right at you and you are spread out so they can pick off what they want then that "want" is probably dead. However if you are clumped up you should be able to just destroy a GSD they aren't that tough.

hmm, good thought , although they will be able to fire on the formation on its weakest side and move away speed 4 , remember people, Armada has Alternating turns .

With your idea the B-wings still threaten doublefire in the squadron phase ,which at least adds some threat ,

tho one needs And the squad command/token,And the Bs not to get engaged , And the absence of the Card That Shall Not Be Named...

I wonder what your ideas are for formations on how to counter them?

Keep in mind tho, Engine teched Glads have a lot of threatened area .

This weekend I got in eight or nine games against at least one Gladiator. Of those, one game didn't include Demolisher, so if I accidentally call Gladiators "Demolishers" I beg your pardon in advance.

Some of you may know that immediately after the Wave 1 release I tried valiantly to cling to my Neb-love in the face of the Mk II's arrival. After this weekend's games, I can safely admit to you that the Nebulon and I have split - and believe me it was amicable, we're still friends on facebook - and fallen head over heels not so much for the Mk II but for the old CR90.

Here's how it basically shook out: The old-timey New Republican players have been pushed around by the Gladiator because they're still in relationships with their Nebs. Glads eat Nebs. It's pretty simple. As you've mentioned, everyone is trying Glad/Demolisher/Screed/Missiles which is costly but generally wastes a Neb in an activation or two. This is essentially the counter-Neb. The idea that an opposing ship can simply choose to stay out of short range while pointing the bow directly at a Gladiator is ridiculous. The Glad wants to get on the Neb. The Neb has to move towards the Glad to fire at it, and will ultimately be struck by the missiles and <abruptly cuts to static, a distant explosion is heard>

The Nebulon is really tough to use with so many Demolishers on the prowl. Sure, you could (probably should) move it laterally then turn abruptly into the Glad as it approaches but that still means a Demolisher will always pounce on it.

Versus the Imperials now, I'm a subscriber to the Mk II / CR90 theory. These two ships enjoy being left to maneuver around the table at high speeds. The Mk II can travel from the extreme left or right to the other extreme, bow to stern, and concentrate fire on your target of choice while speed 3 keeps them able to slide off of a Demolisher if that's the chosen tactic of your opponent. These two behemoths are almost guaranteed to completely distract from the most points-efficient threats, CR90s scooting around the edge and getting behind. My biggest takeaways from the Wave 2 Rebel stuff is not so much the Mk II but those amazing CR90 titles. They're easy to overlook at first, but a speed 4 CR90B sporting a two-point Jaina's Light is amazing at ripping down the initial defenses of either a VSD or a Glad from the aft. They won't want to brace and redirect 2-3 damage - but they will.

As an imperial currently commanding three Gladiators all with engine techs, I would suggest that the thing that concerns me the most is a rebel player who has practiced keeping his ships together. Or one who is willing to pay more than 7 points to try and go second...

You are seeing a lot of glads/demolishers, because that is what we are left with. The VSD is cool, and I wish it had stayed cooler. But its location is too predictable for the monster that is the double AF/ecm/enhanced, one with paragon. So, complain about the proliferation of glads all you like, but that is the fault of the rebel gains in wave 1...

Wait til July and pick up the Mon Cal frigate that has 5 dice and more shields. You'll win the trade then.

MC30 and GSD rivalry will be a crushing one. Once it lands, that is. But all signs point to the MC30 being a god amongst small ships and likely pricey as hell for it.

Against Demolisher especially, I think the only choice for Rebels now are Bombers and AF2, especially Paragon. One good volley with Paragon will cripple a GSD, while one good volley with a GSD may strip the shields off AF2, but won't cripple it.

In my experience, fatties also get wrecked by demolishers (which is henceforth what I'm calling GSDs )

I beat them either through long range firepower or piece trading. Unless the demolisher wasted a fattie before it dies, the trade will be in your favor.

Awing spam is also quite effective given that they're the closest thing we get to rhymer

75% Chancepop damage a pop will often provide the boost you need to waste a demolisher with cf commands. After unleashing their dice, find some nice bombers to engage or move them towards the vsd.

In my experience the domolisher has not been op. Yes it has consistently destroyed a cr90 or a neb during the first few turns but then if my opponent was focus firing on it I had to pull out and repair or be destroyed, this left my glad almost completely useless in the latter half of the game and so even though he destroyed a ship his points were no longer benifiting me and if it had played out slightly different my he would have been killed, and mind you this wasn't playing against a single afmk 2

@Kevin Belgium I have focused on playing Imperials since launch and have many games under my belt trying varied lists from deliberately 'meh' to very tight 'competitive'. You wanted advice on how to deal with the GSD on Steroids. Here's my take.

The GSDoS's strength comes from being able to shoot AFTER moving (aka Demolisher). Bottom line, you are NOT going to stop the shot after move.

One way to mitigate the GSDoS's is to try to limit how many times it can pull its trick. Partnering up your ships in such a way to get multiple firing arcs on it when it comes out to play gives you a chance of destroying it before it pulls its trick a second turn.

Another way is to use the rebel maneuverabliity to make it try to come out before it wants to or make it try to 'catch up' to get into the fight...overflank. The GSDoS's owner wants the trick to go off and will try real hard to do it. This could open up some opportunities...like changing speed to get out of collision paths of his allied ships.

Obviously your strats should change based on your opponents list make-up and current Objective.

Kevin Belgium.... Since when does Armada has alternating turns?? Unless you're playing without objectives, and you shouldn't be doing that.

As an imperial currently commanding three Gladiators all with engine techs, I would suggest that the thing that concerns me the most is a rebel player who has practiced keeping his ships together. Or one who is willing to pay more than 7 points to try and go second...

B-Wings love Gladiators. They have to get close. Also yes you really want to go first.

Yes I have seen the Demolisher with engine techs combination and was wondering the same thing as a Rebel player how to best counter it? Do you play the range game? Or send a gallant haven over and exchange fire

Gallant haven is a double edged game

Every time I had it out in front it died to combination of rhymer and demolisher. I almost won a game because skreed's Vsd was worth WAY more (but rolled horribly with squadrons) and was losing the other before we had to leave early round 4 (traded haven for demolished but had 3 xwings to his howl, rhymer and 2 bombers pplus the afmkii-A anti squadron batteries; should've pulled ahead).

What haven counters is the vsd portion. Howl + fc + ceptors will mulch everything ...except past that one damage reduction. One round of combat negated like 9 damage (counter attacks too) and makes xwings impossible to crack without focus fire.

Yes that was also with the Demolisher and engine techs combination... Interceptors with squad command2

Well after my games over the Weekend I am sure the Nebulon is not a good ship right now.

Easy easy target for the GSD and those three dice on the front doesn't scare a GSD coming for it. The CR90's speed and maneuverability beats the GSD and as the VSD's have learned those things can not be shaken once it's on your tail.

You deal with them by dying.....hehehe....

Take the hit and kill it. Hey, wait, where are you going, I'm serious here...

While a lot of advice is fleet specific, it's obviously hard to avoid getting hit at least once by the demolisher, particularly if they have initiative. Side arc with 4 blacks will be what, average 4 damage before modifiers? Screed and ACMs will probably do 8 damage (dump a blank to get to 6, then ACM to 8). But they aren't particularly sturdy at close range, are utterly awful at dealing damage at long range, and take a lot of points for the combat monster.

Weaken it at long range if possible, situate your bombers w/in 1 of where you think the demolisher will land, tank the initial hit with an AFmk2 or sacrifical corvette (preferably with ECM to avoid random red accuracies...), and bust the demolisher open in the fighter phase or off your first action next turn. Nebulon Bs, being excellent at long range and...limited...in close range, are not optimal glad killers. Of course, if your yavaris survives, the glad is probably dead, and salvation neb getting a volley off can mess up a glad bad.

Take the hit and kill it. Hey, wait, where are you going, I'm serious here...

While a lot of advice is fleet specific, it's obviously hard to avoid getting hit at least once by the demolisher, particularly if they have initiative. Side arc with 4 blacks will be what, average 4 damage before modifiers? Screed and ACMs will probably do 8 damage (dump a blank to get to 6, then ACM to 8). But they aren't particularly sturdy at close range, are utterly awful at dealing damage at long range, and take a lot of points for the combat monster.

Weaken it at long range if possible, situate your bombers w/in 1 of where you think the demolisher will land, tank the initial hit with an AFmk2 or sacrifical corvette (preferably with ECM to avoid random red accuracies...), and bust the demolisher open in the fighter phase or off your first action next turn. Nebulon Bs, being excellent at long range and...limited...in close range, are not optimal glad killers. Of course, if your yavaris survives, the glad is probably dead, and salvation neb getting a volley off can mess up a glad bad.

Here's where I'm having trouble following the "Glass kill Neb B's" argument.

Demolisher rolls right up in my grill, and drops eight on my NebB. He's rolling black and only two reds, so probably not a single let alone a triple precision result. I brace, reducing the eight damage down to four, and take a single Crit face up damage card. And now Dem is parked in front of my fleet and squadrons. Maybe three red dice ain't scary, but three to four ships and their fighters? Sounds like a dead Dem exchanged for a NebB missing it's front shields.