Fat Turrets aren't winning every tournament. The same can be said about every build. So maybe we are waiting until 2016 before we have an actual Meta, due to Wave 7 coming this fall.

There was a report of someone winning a 64-person German regional with two X-Wings and a B.

The meta right now is crazy.

Vader and wave 7 are both going to hit just after the meta starts to settle. Hopefully it never really settles again.

The turrets are still the gatekeepers. Everything after that is pretty much in response to the turrets.

But yes, it is a bit more open than many naysayers have been yelling about.

Fat Turrets aren't winning every tournament. The same can be said about every build. So maybe we are waiting until 2016 before we have an actual Meta, due to Wave 7 coming this fall.

given the flush of regionals results, fat turrets have won an overwhelming majority of the recent US tournaments

the top 8s, however, suggest that a slew of viable options have arisen to take them on (they possibly just need more fine-tuning/practice)

Turrets have won all but a few US regionals. The regionals outside of the US have had a good bit more variety, though.

Turrets are still very heavy in the meta but it's definitely possible to win with other lists. You pretty much have to be able to handle turrets, though.

This game isn't big enough for an effective meta.

Hope this helps!

I think what needs to be noted is that winning lists do not equal meta. Meta is usually a conglomeration of the various build archetypes that are typical and commonly played. If anything, every top 8 has about 7-8 variant lists. The regional lists are showing to have tremendous variety, perhaps as much as %75 of the lists brought are different than everything else.

I think the reason that Those turret lists have won all those US regionals is simply because the other various options haven't been practiced with or available long enough. It seems like the EU in particular has been quick to embrace and try the newer options available that aren't Fat Han/Dash/Deci.

It's an exciting time. The Meta is in constant flux.

Jacob

I think the game still has few enough models to be seen as a rock-paper-scissors type meta.

Arc-Dodgers like triple interceptor and Phantom+2 interceptors munch on low PS swarms

Low PS swarms throw out enough shots to take out fat turrets

Fat turrets go trololol as they ignore your skillful arc dodging and shoot behind themselves with no penalty (such balance much wow)

Brobots is an amalgamation of the above...fat-arc dodgers? I think arc dodgers beats them, but I struggle so much against that build no matter what I fly that I can't give a concrete opinion

Fat Turrets are still a thing and still driving the results, at least in the U.S. Read SableGryphon's report about the Austin Regionals. He didn't use a turret (he was Fett/IG), but played against Corran/Dash something like 4 times in 7 games, plus a Fat Han in the final, Chewie/Leebo, and Chewie/As for his other three. Large turrets in 7 out of 7 games. Anecdotal and extreme, sure. But large-based turrets are still very much alive and at the top of the heap. You'd probably see more of them except for selection bias by players who are actively tired of playing them. That's still your meta; everything else falls into the "other" category right now.

Everything else has a very hard counter. Swarms do counter builds with low ship numbers, but swarms are at a disadvantage with MOV and grinding out 7+ games for a large tournament, so they don't see a ton of play. In the absence of predators, the Great White Turret swims unafraid...

"The Meta" isn't really about what wins, it's about what you're most likely to face in a tournament.

Some guy might have won a tournament with 2 Bs and an X-Wing, but if you were losing to Soontir, Fat Han, and Dual IGs all day and never played against that guy, practicing against 2Bs and an X-Wing probably wouldn't have been very helpful to you winning that tournament right?

Fat Turrets are still a thing and still driving the results, at least in the U.S. Read SableGryphon's report about the Austin Regionals. He didn't use a turret (he was Fett/IG), but played against Corran/Dash something like 4 times in 7 games, plus a Fat Han in the final, Chewie/Leebo, and Chewie/As for his other three. Large turrets in 7 out of 7 games. Anecdotal and extreme, sure. But large-based turrets are still very much alive and at the top of the heap. You'd probably see more of them except for selection bias by players who are actively tired of playing them. That's still your meta; everything else falls into the "other" category right now.

Everything else has a very hard counter. Swarms do counter builds with low ship numbers, but swarms are at a disadvantage with MOV and grinding out 7+ games for a large tournament, so they don't see a ton of play. In the absence of predators, the Great White Turret swims unafraid...

My regional opponents(from the other regional Sable attended) only had 2/6 sporting turrets. And one of them was a completely non-standard build. I also don't think my list has any hard counters. There are plenty of other competitive lists out there. It'll just take time for competitive players to get comfortable enough with them to take them to large tournaments.

I think the game still has few enough models to be seen as a rock-paper-scissors type meta.

Arc-Dodgers like triple interceptor and Phantom+2 interceptors munch on low PS swarms

Low PS swarms throw out enough shots to take out fat turrets

Fat turrets go trololol as they ignore your skillful arc dodging and shoot behind themselves with no penalty (such balance much wow)

Brobots is an amalgamation of the above...fat-arc dodgers? I think arc dodgers beats them, but I struggle so much against that build no matter what I fly that I can't give a concrete opinion

Then you have Dash, who is a fat-turret arc-dodger who says, "Screw you swarms, I'll just be over here tearing you up while you maybe get a shot or two on me."

you have to distinguish Dash from primary turrets because he plays considerably differently

unlike han/cheri, he actually gets rather ****** over by maneuverable, high PS ships (like han and cheri ) because he either has the HLC blindspot (a large turret you can actually play around? it's a christmas miracle!) or a sh*tty mangler with not nearly enough damage potential

he's also kinda crap exchanging straight damage with other large ships because he has no guaranteed damage mitigation (unless you count obstacles not hurting him ) while han/cheri do.

in exchange, he outpaces and challenges the swarms of generics that the other fatties don't have obstacle immune barrel-rolls to dodge around with

there's a reason why Corran is so popular with him. Not only does he cover the doughnut hole (and he could be run at PS 10 to counter old whisper/new soontir) but his evade + r2-d2 make him incredibly tanky (2 damage negation) and his FCS double-tap lets him output a lot of damage against opposing 2-ship builds.

There is always a meta. Even if that meta is the absence of dominating lists, it is still a meta.

I'll be interested to see how things continue (and I posted this elsewhere), but the meta does seem to be shifting from a "turret" meta to a "large base ship" meta with lists made up of exclusively small ships still being largely outnumbered in the elimination rounds and far less consistently appearing than lists centered around a hefty pointed large base ship or two. Maybe it will continue to widen out, but I'd like to see even more small ship lists do well before I personally (just my preference) get really excited about the meta.

Ummm.....fat turrets are winning something like 80% of the tournaments. At least. That's pretty much dominating everything. That's not a game of variety. Most of the non-turrets are outside the US, as well. Poor, stale game variety.

Ummm.....fat turrets are winning something like 80% of the tournaments. At least. That's pretty much dominating everything. That's not a game of variety. Most of the non-turrets are outside the US, as well. Poor, stale game variety.

Maybe it's just us Americans that are boring. I believe we have only a single win that wasn't won by a double brobots or a turret. The one that did, though, was a single brobot with a firespray.

Brobots have won a decent number of regionals, which I think has something to do with the statement about shifting towards a large ship meta.

If this meta is stale then the meta since the game began has been about as exciting as a tax audit. Competitive list variety is better than it has ever been. Turrets are not monolithic. Even if they won 100% the upgrade and ship variety still makes for a lot of interesting games.

Y-wings are competitive. Interceptors are competitive. Bombs are competitive. Firesprays are competitive. A couple of entirely new ships are competitive. If I told this forum that this much change would happen 6 months ago nobody would have believed it.

Ummm.....fat turrets are winning something like 80% of the tournaments. At least. That's pretty much dominating everything. That's not a game of variety. Most of the non-turrets are outside the US, as well. Poor, stale game variety.

Winning does not equal meta. I don't know why people think that. Take a look at the average of lists used 2 years ago, then again 1 year ago, and then compare it to todays lists and you'll see quickly that the 'meta' has more variety in it today. Even if it's just in the US, there's still somewhere from 6-12 different Archetypes being used. That's not just what's available, that's what's being used.

I'd say the Meta has a lot of variety.

Jacob

If this meta is stale then the meta since the game began has been about as exciting as a tax audit. Competitive list variety is better than it has ever been. Turrets are not monolithic. Even if they won 100% the upgrade and ship variety still makes for a lot of interesting games.

I disagree. If I'm facing nothing but turrets all day long in a tournament, I consider it boring. It makes me not want to go to Regionals, to be honest. It didn't used to be like this back in the early waves. At least not in my area.

Winning does not equal meta. I don't know why people think that.

That's because what wins tournaments is what becomes "net lists". It's what then gets played in the local stores.

If this meta is stale then the meta since the game began has been about as exciting as a tax audit. Competitive list variety is better than it has ever been. Turrets are not monolithic. Even if they won 100% the upgrade and ship variety still makes for a lot of interesting games.

I disagree. If I'm facing nothing but turrets all day long in a tournament, I consider it boring. It makes me not want to go to Regionals, to be honest. It didn't used to be like this back in the early waves. At least not in my area.

You finding it boring doesn't mean the meta is stale. It means you find it boring. A stale meta would be one that simply doesn't change. We've seen some good changes to meta already this year. 4 Thugs, brobots and the new double phantoms are some of my favorite new items. Even within just the lists running turrets, you've got some lists that are played and played against very differently from each other. The meta is definitely not stale. It's less stale than it's been in the past. If you want to call it boring, that's fine, that's your opinion, but it's not stale.

And on netlists- I don't what the meta is like in every store. I've seen some amount of this in my own store but more often players are running bizarre things just because they can. Is every other store dominated by guys who can't make their own squads? I doubt it.

If this meta is stale then the meta since the game began has been about as exciting as a tax audit. Competitive list variety is better than it has ever been. Turrets are not monolithic. Even if they won 100% the upgrade and ship variety still makes for a lot of interesting games.

I disagree. If I'm facing nothing but turrets all day long in a tournament, I consider it boring. It makes me not want to go to Regionals, to be honest. It didn't used to be like this back in the early waves. At least not in my area.

Clearly you never played during the summer of Double Falcons...

Ywings aren't competitive yet

By which I actually mean "if you Think they're good now just wait till wave 7 "

I hope I'm not alone in gushing over the k's twin laser turret (basically range 2-3 cluster missiles that deal a max of one not critical damage an attack)

I mean Jesus

R3-a2 double tap
Horton salm going h.a.m
R4 aggros
Even Dutch's sh*tty FCS droid will have to proc SOMETIMES

BTW, this is as excited as you'll ever see me for something turret related (short of an errata) so enjoy it while it lasts)