I think the whole squishy thing is utterly false. Not that it isn't squishy but it's less squishy than a TIE or an Interceptor. I don't see any squishy TIE or Interceptor threads. The true deficiency of the M3A is its underwhelming dial. Needs a 1 forward and more greens or a 5 forward or both. The Heavy Syck title being 1 pt would also help it.

it's not less squishy than a tie or interceptor unless you get that magical crit only result on the one shield

it's just as squishy only either more expensive or lacking vital auto-thrusters

I'm sure there were plenty of "interceptors too squishy" threads before auto-thrusters came along to address the idiocy of turrets completely negating their primary advantage. Sadly, FFG did not have the presence of mind to give Scyks a similar safety net

I think the whole squishy thing is utterly false. It's less squishy than a TIE or an Interceptor. I don't see any squishy TIE or Interceptor threads. The true deficiency of the M3A is its underwhelming dial. Needs a 1 forward and more greens or a 5 forward. The Heavy Syck title being 1 pt would also help it.

It seems to me like people complain about the squishiness of TIEs all the time. TIEs get around it by being dirt cheap and Interceptors get Autothrusters and the ones that get play take PTL and tend to have good abilities. The Scyk is also a more expensive ship than a TIE Fighter or Interceptor. A Tansarii Point Veteran costs the same as Mauler Mithiel. Laetin has the same problem that most of the mid-PS named Interceptors have; no EPT. Serissu isn't worth spending points on, her ability doesn't help her and just makes her an even bigger target than she would normally be.

The PS2 Scyk has one less shield and a worse dial for just one point under what a Protoype A-Wing costs.

I think the whole squishy thing is utterly false. Not that it isn't squishy but it's less squishy than a TIE or an Interceptor. I don't see any squishy TIE or Interceptor threads. The true deficiency of the M3A is its underwhelming dial. Needs a 1 forward and more greens or a 5 forward or both. The Heavy Syck title being 1 pt would also help it.

It's just as squishy as a TIE fighter, and (without spending more points) has the same defense as a TIE fighter, but it's 17% more expensive.

So I was imprecise to say the problem is that it's squishy, but it's not false. The problem is that it's squishy for the points.

The way I see it. You cannot use it as a light fighter I think FFG intended you to be able too, but it doesn't work.

Obviously, they made it 14 pts since you cannot take 4 with Heavy Laser and hull upgrade.

I think they should have made it 12 points, but came with a title that allowed you to equip any one of the following but also added 1 point to any missle or torp and 4 points to any cannon you want to take. Which is basically what it is now, but it could also be used as a swarm naked.

Right now to be effective you must take the title and add +1 hull with a cannon every time.

You cannot use it as a traditional swarm fighter and as long as you realize it will basically cost like an X-wing, but have a cannon, the ship is fine.

Start on angles when you deploy. I look at it as the current role of the x-wing, bringing one along with something else is fine, but by itself it just cannot compete. It's like the 6th man, it's basically a sniper support ship. Stay at long range and snipe away.

I like the Tansarii with mangler and ept (Calculation) and +1 Hull, it's an annoying little ship, that hits really hard. Since it is shooting way down in the PS, most of the time its firing at ships without tokens or shields.

The way I see it. You cannot use it as a light fighter I think FFG intended you to be able too, but it doesn't work.

Obviously, they made it 14 pts since you cannot take 4 with Heavy Laser. I think they should have made it 12 points, but came with a title that allowed you to equip any one of the following but also added 1 point to any missle or torp and 4 points to any cannon you want to take. Which is basically what it is now, but it could also be used as a swarm naked.

Right now to be effective you must take the title and add +1 hull with a cannon every time.

You cannot use it as a traditional swarm fighter and as long as you realize it will basically cost like an X-wing, but have a cannon, the ship is fine.

Start on angles when you deploy. I look at it as the current role of the x-wing, bringing one along with something else is fine, but by itself it just cannot compete. It's like the 6th man, it's basically a sniper support ship. Stay at long range and snipe away.

I like the Tansarii with mangler and ept (Calculation) and +1 Hull, it's an annoying little ship, that hits really hard. Since it is shooting way down in the PS, most of the time its firing at ships without tokens or shields.

A cartel w/HLC+title is 23 points. You can take four, though only two with a defensive upgrade.

Sorry, your right.(Changed it) But if they were 12 all 4 would have +1 hull. however, without the hull they are slim pickens in todays' market. manglers and other cannons eat them for breakfast. They must have a juicer target with them, so they can survive and dish out damage. Hence the sniper role.

It's just as squishy as a TIE fighter, and (without spending more points) has the same defense as a TIE fighter, but it's 17% more expensive.

So I was imprecise to say the problem is that it's squishy, but it's not false. The problem is that it's squishy for the points.

Yeah - though It does have the extra P.S. (arguably half a point given academy to obsidian) and a targetting computer, that doesn't eat up the mod slot. That's probably not worth the 2 points that the upgrade is, but it does mean that the sycks can stack TL and Focus.

Someday - the right modification will come around that allows Target Locks to do something extra - and the non Heavy sycks can have their day in the sun.

It's just as squishy as a TIE fighter, and (without spending more points) has the same defense as a TIE fighter, but it's 17% more expensive.

So I was imprecise to say the problem is that it's squishy, but it's not false. The problem is that it's squishy for the points.

Yeah - though It does have the extra P.S. (arguably half a point given academy to obsidian) and a targetting computer, that doesn't eat up the mod slot. That's probably not worth the 2 points that the upgrade is, but it does mean that the sycks can stack TL and Focus.

Someday - the right modification will come around that allows Target Locks to do something extra - and the non Heavy sycks can have their day in the sun.

Fixed-cost modifications always provide the greatest value (relative to their fixed cost) on expensive ships, so even if there were a universal modification that let Target Lock be better, it would benefit the generic M3A's less than any other ship in the game that can take the Target Lock. I.e. it would cost too much to be worth taking on the M3-A, unless it was so good that it made half of the ships in the game stupidly overpowered.

Can't think of a way to gain the stress I want to give Palob. Will leave it at Opportunist and change EI for a Shield Upgrade, unless I need more initiative and drop it to Hull Upgrade.

For Palob and some ridiculous glass cannons how about:

Palob w/Moldy Crow, ICT, K4, Opportunist (34)

2 x TP Vet w/Heavy Title, HLC, Opportunist, Hull Upgrade (33 each)

Against any target that without a green token Palob throws 4 red dice, and the Scyks each throw 5. You'll hit like a truck but have a lot of stress to deal with and have 3 fairly squishy ships. That's 14 red dice, the same number that BBBBZ throws outside of range one.

I'm not wanting to stress everything! heh heh... just Palob.

Palob with Moldy Crow, Opportunist, Recon Specialist, Blaster Turret and Shield Upgrade

2x TPVet with Canon Title, HLC, Wingman, and Hull Upgrade

To me, using Palob with Moldy Crow means using the Blaster Turret. Also using Palob means stress each round if at all possible. The two Wingman cards allow the three to fly in formation so that Palob can keep up with red maneuvers, with the stress cleared and using his ability.

Actually, this brings up a question. If the stress is both gained and cleared at the "beginning of combat", which happens first? As they are all PS5, do you get to choose which ones activate first? (and don't mess up the sequencing or you're screwed) They obviously cannot happen simultaneously, but this whole build is worthless if Palob's ability comes after Wingman clears the stress. He needs to be able to activate his ability and then have the wingmen clear the stress from his move and his ability prior to end of phase so that he can take another red maneuver next round.

Has anyone tried this squad? With stealth devices a re-roll with Serissu and a focus or evade, I think it could hold it's own.

Cartel Spacer [“Heavy Scyk” Interceptor, Stealth Device, “Mangler” Cannon] (23) x 3

Serissu [swarm Tactics, “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor, Stealth Device, “Mangler” Cannon] (31)

Problem is you will never get a re-roll from Serissu. All they have to do is target Serissu first. I don't think you see all Syck squads because green dice.

Can't think of a way to gain the stress I want to give Palob. Will leave it at Opportunist and change EI for a Shield Upgrade, unless I need more initiative and drop it to Hull Upgrade.

For Palob and some ridiculous glass cannons how about:

Palob w/Moldy Crow, ICT, K4, Opportunist (34)

2 x TP Vet w/Heavy Title, HLC, Opportunist, Hull Upgrade (33 each)

Against any target that without a green token Palob throws 4 red dice, and the Scyks each throw 5. You'll hit like a truck but have a lot of stress to deal with and have 3 fairly squishy ships. That's 14 red dice, the same number that BBBBZ throws outside of range one.

I'm not wanting to stress everything! heh heh... just Palob.

Palob with Moldy Crow, Opportunist, Recon Specialist, Blaster Turret and Shield Upgrade

2x TPVet with Canon Title, HLC, Wingman, and Hull Upgrade

To me, using Palob with Moldy Crow means using the Blaster Turret. Also using Palob means stress each round if at all possible. The two Wingman cards allow the three to fly in formation so that Palob can keep up with red maneuvers, with the stress cleared and using his ability.

Actually, this brings up a question. If the stress is both gained and cleared at the "beginning of combat", which happens first? As they are all PS5, do you get to choose which ones activate first? (and don't mess up the sequencing or you're screwed) They obviously cannot happen simultaneously, but this whole build is worthless if Palob's ability comes after Wingman clears the stress. He needs to be able to activate his ability and then have the wingmen clear the stress from his move and his ability prior to end of phase so that he can take another red maneuver next round.

Crap. I meant for Palob to have a Blaster Turret there. My fingers did not cooperate with my brain.

Anytime there are actions with the same trigger, the player with Initiative does theirs first and if the same player has multiple items to resolve they can be resolved in the order that that player wishes them to be. PS is not a factor.

Palob's ability doesn't care about stress. The stress from Opportunist comes at the time of the attack. Wingman clears a stress at the start of the Combat Phase. This does mean that Wingman will not clear stress incurred through Opportunist until after the next activation phase. Wingman is really built around clearing stress gained during the Activation phase and not during the Combat phase.

Yes, but Palob's ability states "at the start of the combat phase" just like Wingman. So, according to your prior statement, could the following happen?

First Scyk Wingman clears stress on Palob from maneuver.

Palob uses ability and gains stress.

Second Scyk Wingman clears stress.

Attacks happen.

Edit:

Actually, looking at this closer... as long as Palob can execute his ability before the Wingman effects take place, everything is good. That would make more mechanical sense than splitting when two separate Wingman effects cleared stress.

I think this one is worth taking:

Serissu (20)

Cartel Spacer (20) x 4

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (14), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), “Mangler” Cannon (4)

= 100

Right now I own only 2 of them ...

Yes, but Palob's ability states "at the start of the combat phase" just like Wingman. So, according to your prior statement, could the following happen?

First Scyk Wingman clears stress on Palob from maneuver.

Palob uses ability and gains stress.

Second Scyk Wingman clears stress.

Attacks happen.

Edit:

Actually, looking at this closer... as long as Palob can execute his ability before the Wingman effects take place, everything is good. That would make more mechanical sense than splitting when two separate Wingman effects cleared stress.

I don't get it

stress from reds trigger after movement, well before combat

blaster turret and opportunist triggers on attack, well after the start of combat phase

Palob's ability doesn't give two ***** about stress nor does it cause stress, he just takes focus/evades regardless (note the "assign" keyword)

the order of operations would be:

Palob uses ability and/or wingman clears stress (neither is dependent on the other in any way shape or form)

blaster turret and/or opportunist trigger on attack\

next turn

if you take stress after the start of combat, Palob's keeping it for next turn since wingman only triggers at the beginning

Yeah, my memory fails me. I was remembering that Palob's ability couldn't kick in if he was carrying stress. That was actually Opportunist. And I'm really not liking how Opportunist limits movement the next round. Back to the drawing board.

I think this one is worth taking:

Serissu (20)

Cartel Spacer (20) x 4

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (14), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), “Mangler” Cannon (4)

= 100

Right now I own only 2 of them ...

I think its actually fairly solid. It would give any list with a turret some trouble. That's a lot of crits it can pump out. However, BBBBZ would own it. With all those shields they won't care about the Manglers. You simply don't have the hit points there to compete. I'd run it if I would be bothered to buy 3 more Scyks. Which I won't.

I think this one is worth taking:

Serissu (20)

Cartel Spacer (20) x 4

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (14), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), “Mangler” Cannon (4)

= 100

Right now I own only 2 of them ...

I think its actually fairly solid. It would give any list with a turret some trouble. That's a lot of crits it can pump out. However, BBBBZ would own it. With all those shields they won't care about the Manglers. You simply don't have the hit points there to compete. I'd run it if I would be bothered to buy 3 more Scyks. Which I won't.

I actually think a mobile turret would be more dangerous against it than BBBBZ, since it has a significant advantage at long range against BBBBZ.

I think this one is worth taking:

Serissu (20)

Cartel Spacer (20) x 4

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (14), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), “Mangler” Cannon (4)

= 100

Right now I own only 2 of them ...

For reasons mentioned above, I don't think you can afford to fly in formation. You need to split up and really swarm the opponent. That means Serissu's ability will be hit and miss. To that end, I think you're better off with 5x of the Cartel Spacers.

But firepower- and health-wise, you're about the same as 3x Saber Squadron and 2x Alpha. Is that considered competitive at the moment? I'm not sure it is. So the 5x Cartel Spacer listt, while definitely neat, still has some problems. If I had 5x M3-As, I'd definitely take it for a spin, but like you, I only own 2 of them.

I think this one is worth taking:

Serissu (20)

Cartel Spacer (20) x 4

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (14), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), “Mangler” Cannon (4)

= 100

Right now I own only 2 of them ...

I think its actually fairly solid. It would give any list with a turret some trouble. That's a lot of crits it can pump out. However, BBBBZ would own it. With all those shields they won't care about the Manglers. You simply don't have the hit points there to compete. I'd run it if I would be bothered to buy 3 more Scyks. Which I won't.

I actually think a mobile turret would be more dangerous against it than BBBBZ, since it has a significant advantage at long range against BBBBZ.

That's what I was thinking. Stay at range three as much as possible, and fire your three reds against their one defense while the Bs are still shooting three dice at your four defense+Serissu re-roll. If you can avoid two many close range engagements, you could pull it out.

Scyks in general seem more adept at long range combat that most ships. Watching a guy play with some on Vassal the other day, it occurred to me that with the HLC's attached they actually become less effective if they end up in range one as they'll lose an attack die.

I think this one is worth taking:

Serissu (20)

Cartel Spacer (20) x 4

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (14), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), “Mangler” Cannon (4)

= 100

Right now I own only 2 of them ...

For reasons mentioned above, I don't think you can afford to fly in formation. You need to split up and really swarm the opponent. That means Serissu's ability will be hit and miss. To that end, I think you're better off with 5x of the Cartel Spacers.

But firepower- and health-wise, you're about the same as 3x Saber Squadron and 2x Alpha. Is that considered competitive at the moment? I'm not sure it is. So the 5x Cartel Spacer listt, while definitely neat, still has some problems. If I had 5x M3-As, I'd definitely take it for a spin, but like you, I only own 2 of them.

I agree, and I'd suggest simply dropping Serrisu to fly another Spacer with Mangler (or Ndru) as that is a heavy firepower list. I tend to compare it to 5x Avengers who have slightly better attack and defense but sacrifice pilot skill and are vulnerable to predator. The Scyks are also better at keeping their distance and so overall I think it's a better list than 5 interceptors. However, I still think it's going to struggle against hyper mobile lists (especially turrets).

Not really cost efficient in any possible loadout. For lots of examples scroll down to wave 6 here -- even with a cannon they can't break a "standard" efficiency, and they really don't have anything else going for them.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/128417-mathwing-comprehensive-ship-jousting-values-and-more/

You shoot me down in flames

You put me down a lot

But I'm giving you my heart

Go on take it

Please be careful not to break it

Just remember it's the only one I've got

It's the only one I've

Don't break my heart

You make me laugh a lot

And buy me silly things

And I'd rather be with you than anyone else

But if you make me mad

But if you make me mad

You'll wish that you had not

You'll wish that you had not

Don't break my heart

Where are the roses and whispered sighs

Where are the compliments and dreaming eyes

It doesn't matter you see

I know you love me

And real basic love never dies

Don't break my heart

Mean-ass-Jugger!

I agree, they are kinda weak-suace... which is why even I only have eight of 'em... and three of that number are just for the named pilots.

Not really cost efficient in any possible loadout. For lots of examples scroll down to wave 6 here -- even with a cannon they can't break a "standard" efficiency, and they really don't have anything else going for them.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/128417-mathwing-comprehensive-ship-jousting-values-and-more/

Don't Break My Heart

Song by UB40

You shoot me down in flames

You put me down a lot

But I'm giving you my heart

Go on take it

Please be careful not to break it

Just remember it's the only one I've got

It's the only one I've

Don't break my heart

You make me laugh a lot

And buy me silly things

And I'd rather be with you than anyone else

But if you make me mad

But if you make me mad

You'll wish that you had not

You'll wish that you had not

Don't break my heart

Where are the roses and whispered sighs

Where are the compliments and dreaming eyes

It doesn't matter you see

I know you love me

And real basic love never dies

Don't break my heart

Mean-ass-Jugger!

I agree, they are kinda weak-suace... which is why even I only have eight of 'em... and three of that number are just for the named pilots.

MajorJuggler's nemesis needs to make an appearance. He's just a different version of MJ from an alternate universe. He refutes mathematical analysis with hatchets and Faygo. His name is MajorJuggalo.

Has anyone tried this squad? With stealth devices a re-roll with Serissu and a focus or evade, I think it could hold it's own.

Cartel Spacer [“Heavy Scyk” Interceptor, Stealth Device, “Mangler” Cannon] (23) x 3

Serissu [swarm Tactics, “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor, Stealth Device, “Mangler” Cannon] (31)

Problem is you will never get a re-roll from Serissu. All they have to do is target Serissu first. I don't think you see all Syck squads because green dice.

I've been toying with this defensive build:

Serissu (22) M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (20), Elusiveness (2)

Tansarii Point Veteran (26) x 2 M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (17), Predator (3), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), “Mangler” Cannon (4)

Tansarii Point Veteran (25) M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor (17), Bodyguard (2), “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2), “Mangler” Cannon (4)

To hit Serissu you need to drop the bodyguard who is protected by Serissu.

Well, the Scyk Interceptor has two different cannons that are incomparable to normal ships: Ion and Flechette

A point difference between the two is not typically going to be worth the vast difference in control. Ion is typically better.

The question then becomes: Is 19 points enough for an Ioning Interceptor?

20 points for a Mangler Scyk cognates with a TIE Interceptor.
23 points for an HLC Scyk cognates with a non-cloaking Phantom.

Fixed-cost modifications always provide the greatest value (relative to their fixed cost) on expensive ships, so even if there were a universal modification that let Target Lock be better, it would benefit the generic M3A's less than any other ship in the game that can take the Target Lock. I.e. it would cost too much to be worth taking on the M3-A, unless it was so good that it made half of the ships in the game stupidly overpowered.

1. Package threshold costs: the idea that there is a discrete curve of cost based upon chassis multiples. 50, 33, 25, 20, 16, and 14. And it's interaction with the final build, based on the number of ships in a build. For example, a 4 point engine upgrade pushes your 22 point b wing out of the 25 point bracket, but doesn't push the x wing out of the 25 point bracket. So a reasonably costed upgrade can more easily find multiples on the cheaper support ship, even though they may be less efficient. There is a value to the build being in lower brackets, in that it supports extra ships as well as the capability for greater total synergy or ship redundancy.

2. Upgrade values are not static over multiple chassis and pilots. - stealth is more valuable on agi 3 than 1.

3. There's a number of activations for an upgrade or ability that begin to make up for card cost, measured by a damage per cost adjustment. I posted about it before, but generally 2 points per damage dealt.

For example - when attacking, if you have a target lock, and your agility value is greater than the targeted ship, you may reroll a number of attack dice equal to your agility. Almost Useless on b wings, quite useful on a scyk. While too much for the tie adv fix, it can be scum only, gives a nice boost to starvipers, but pushes the generics over the 25 point threshold and competes with autothrusters.