I'm going to get the bsg core board game for y b-day in a few days and I think I'm going to run a 4 or 5 player game. I was thinking about how in the expansion limits the presidents quoum hand limit is 10 just like the skills, and I was wondering if I should impost that rule even though we will be playing the core game.

Basicly, I'm asking if the hand limit on quoum cards was added because no limit on the size of the quoum hand made the president to powerful even if you are only playing the core game, or was it to balance the game because of something that was added with the expansion?

I think it was kinda both, but I would just use no limit. The limit is part of Pegasus rules, not the base game. The only reason to keep this rule is if you have players you are worried would get confused with changing rules when they hit the expansion.

Gedaning said:

Yeah, if you are just going base game, stick with the base rules. On a side note, try to get a 5 player game going. By far, the best number of players.

I would actually recommend the opposite: use the hand limit. Even before Pegasus was released we were getting of the opinion that the unlimited hand for the president was too much, and we started using a seven card hand limit, which made the game much better. Then Pegasus was released and it was confirmed that the president should have a hand limit, so we'll certainly be playing both the base game and the expansion that way from now on.

Bleached Lizard said:

I agree. Use the hand limit presented in Pegasus for a better play experience.

Your mileage may vary.

I also prefer the new revisions of the Investigative Committees in the base game aswell, but the base game is still fine as it is!

Bleached Lizard said:

An unlimited hand limit for the president has a number of interesting effects in terms of hiding as a cylon president, various tactical options for storing ready for the end game and so on. Also the opportunity for allowing mistakes by misplaying that strategy in a game where letting the players hang metaphorically hang themselves is at the core of the design and very much a decision point for all involved. I do not see it as to much and limiting the hand in my opinion lowers the experience and tactical play options of the base game.

The fact they put a hand limit in Pegasus does not confirm that it should always have been there. It would be an errata in the FAQ that would make that point, not changes in the expansion. Pegasus changes the game and part of the changes added are a Quorum hand limit for the expanded game, that does not necessarily go backward to say it should always have been there.

If the President actually gets up to ten Quorum cards in hand, they're probably a Cylon. In my opinion, having a Quorum hand limit is just an extra warning flag for new players that perhaps something is not right with their glorious leader.

I would highly advise implementing the hand limit.

If the president draws the entire deck into his/her hand (which the human fleet should make a concerted effort to allow via XO's once loyalty has been established), he/she can really abuse the president's office. For example, with an empty quorum deck and discard, the president can Authorization of Brutal Force with every action (draw the one from discard, then play it back to discard). He/she can do this twice for every XO he receives (6 raiders dead with no die roll and no skill cards used beside the original XO). That's absurd. He/she can do the same thing with any other powerful quorum card. The quorum hand limit is a must, IMO.

Holy Outlaw said:

Ah this one - yes they can do the Brutal Force ad nauseam in that situation, but it requires the thing to be useful - ie Cylon fleet to be a serious problem - for there to be any significant benefit and it doesnt make it a automatic game winner - at the right time it can save the game but that can be said onf any number of effects which are not abusive or overpowered . The chain is interrupted and so lowered in efficiency everytime a revealed cylon is playing, everytime a character who doesn't draw green is playing and everyone someone doesnt have an XO card to play (or doesnt want to in the case of an unrevealed cylon).

Add to that the game has been played to focus so heavily on the get the whole quorum deck strategy that the president has done precious little all game except draw Quorum cards so you are struggling elsewhere due to lack of play - its around what a dozen actions to clear the deck to hand - thats a big proportion of all the actions I can expect to have available to me in the game. If someone invests that much time and effort, in a gamerisking fashion, why not let them reap some form of benefit.

Agreed.

I kinda hate that both the hand limit and NC stuff are in the expansion (they risk getting brigged if they use a Q-card on NC, and Colonial One is off limits even after Galactica gets back). In the base game I think the President was a bit more powerful than the Admiral, but in the expansion they nerfed that title twice while giving the Admiral something VERY powerful (the end-game action).

Locutus Zero said:

Yep, but in the NC crisis cards most of the non-skill check ones are president chooses, where in the base game it was most of the current player, and evenly admiral and president chooses...

Locutus Zero said:

There are changes in the Pegasus expansion that alter the balance of play and so if the playtesting for that suggested introducing a hand limit for the deck, so be it - there are enough differences in the base game and expansion to warrant it (and one has been cited) - with the dfferent skill cards and treachery floating round I can see you might get some very weird situations or overpowering effects with the expansion. Its retrofitting to the base game on the basis of 'its in the expansion' that I object to. The two games (base and expanded) are different situations is all Im saying, whats good for one might not be good for the other.

Oh, I agree. I say play by the base rules if you have the base game.

As for game balance as it relates to the President, I hadn't noticed there being lots more President Chooses cards on NC, but my group has only gotten to NC a few times, and only once when I was prez. If there are enough of those, I can see that balancing things out. It would need to be a LOT more President Chooses cards though.

I hadn't considered President changes cards actually, athough many affect morale which is much more of an issue in New Caprica game. I was looking elsewhere for balance changes actually - mostly because the most obvious that I have seen is that using New Caprica introduces a much more burning need to use the Inspirational Speech to protect/build morale and to an extent the Rationing cards to provide a wheel you can take more losses on - being able to lock those up in a Presidents hand causes significant change in the game balance as it is harder to change President in my experience. However that morale issue does link to Pres Chooses cards too now you mention it.

Treachery has some weird effects and I haven't played the expansion enough to really settle on how they affect balance in the president's hand so I could imagine some there even if not using New Caprica (here Im relying on the playtesters/designer opinion as I mentioned before).