Having played against this card now it feels to me that the cost to use its effect is too cheep. Simply kneeling the card to kill a character in someone elses hand can change the way you play (Confession has a better cost and is only a discard). You can't afford to keep powerful characters in your hand especially if you have duplicates in your deck as if they are killed the duplicate is then a dead draw.

This card can also create some odd situations as it is changing the rules about where you can kill a character. If I have an Aeron Damphair in play and in my hand (I will not attach the duplicate as I want him to die!) the card in my hand can be killed by Aegons Hill. Now he is both dead and alive at the same time?

I just don't know why FFG didn't make this a discard effect.

Fai said:

I would´ve also prefered a non-repeatable effect, but i don´t think that it´s too strong. A card which is at the same time in the dead pile and in play, won´t cause any rule problems. But i must admit that it´s kind of strange - maybe they only killed the doppelgänger of the charachter on Aegon´s hill. ;-)

Aegon's Hill does not kill them, it places them in the dead pile, for exactly the reasons you point out.

The card is meant to be a form of permanent character removal. If you have Aeron in play and an Aeron in your hand and the one in your hand goes to the dead pile and the one in play dies his replacement effect still functions, but you won't be able to put him into play or play him from your hand until the one in the dead pile is removed.

And it is powerful, but in the end it does remove a card from play, so while annoying is still not as brutal as it could be.

i tested this card extensively for about a month before pulling it form my latest decks. i think it is quite powerful, but its cost balances it considerably. Targ needs gold - and resources in general. at three gold, it saps your ability to fire Drogon and to recycle Forever Burning in the mid game. Plus - Targ already has a lot of location slots tied up with resource providers and Lady Dany's. Given that price of war and Condemned by the councila re widley played, aegon's Hill becomes something fo a luxury.

The effect is amazing - doubling as both an intrigue challenge and a military challenge with one effect. I cna see it being a powerful weapon in a certain deck - but I think you might have to sacrifice some other location slots to get maximu use out of it. my conclusion: a powerful but nicely balanced effect.

Right now i am more concerned with trying to turn the dargon Pit into Targ's best control location with recursive burn.

3G is expensive for you for a card that let you see the hand of your opponent? Even if he has no characters in the hand, the effect is great, and in the middle game, Targ has no problem to pay 3g for it and 2g for drogon. (FB is ussually recycled with influence).

Even with location control this card worth a slot in any targ deck, and in any that can allow it. I use it in my lanni deck and I have no doubt when I draw it. "Great"

Stag Lord said:

I agree. Aegon's Hill seemed too strong when I first saw it, and I still think it's strong, but I've since cut it from my decks. The reason is that Targ is uniquely dependent on locations and attachments for (a) draw (recursion), (b) gold and influence, and © character removal (indirectly through recursion) and/or pumps to help win challenges. Other houses may have location options for a, b, and c, but they typically do not rely so heavily on locations/attachmeents to accomplish all of these. In addition, Targ--arguably more than any other house--benefits from influence, which is only available in locations. Because there is a minimum number of characters that a deck should contain to remain smooth (30+), the bar is set very high for each non-character card in a Targ deck. (For example, in rounds 2-4 of most games, when Targ has the most difficult time, I would rather draw a burn attachment, more influence, or Dany's Chambers over an Aegon's Hill.)

As a final consideration, Aegon's Hill is a (relatively) expensive location that, I think, offers diminishing returns as the game goes on. After the first few rounds, the opponent will likely play most of his/her characters (especially if you have Aegon's Hill in play), so the effect is most potent in early rounds when the opponent has more cards in hand and less gold to play it with. This, incidentally, is also when gold is at a premium for me, and I hate making the choice between Aegon's Hill and a shadow character/Jhogo/Bring Though the real value of this card is likely that it lets you look in your opponent's to see if they have any danger cards--for example, an I'm You Writ Small, Event Cancel, or location discard effect--rather than discard your opponent's hand, I usually benefit much more from an attachment that guarantees me a kill when I play it or a location that helps me to ambush in my Dragon Thief to discard the Milk of the Poppy on my Syrio.

Some people feel the effect is too powerful others say that because it is in Targ that it rarely makes their decks because of Targ's reliance for locations for all their other themes... sounds like a balanced powerful card. Most other houses can't afford to play it at 5 gold, and it's effect in Lannister is rather mitigated by the fact they can win intrigue challenges against most houses so easily one more lost card is not nearly a huge deal as seeing your opponents hand which for five gold is balanced.

I think it's a balanced card, certainly not in the "too powerful" category.

This is also because of the timing... " Challenges: "

When this phase starts, Marshalling has already taken place, and my opponent will have likely played the key character(s) for that turn.

Would the timing have been " Marshalling: " (+ being First Player in the turn) or better yet " Plot: "... well, that would have make it quite different!

Maybe I feel it's too powerful because it seems to hurt my chosen house of Greyjoy more than most.

None of the greyjoy saves will help if the card comes out of my hand and the additional Greyjoy card draw also comes in the challenges phase triggered by winning challenges. If I drew a key character from my deck after winning a challenge and then the Targ player killed it out of my hand that would be annoying!

Fai said:

Well, at least Greyjoy is the oly house that has a decent chance to cancel the triggered effect with "to be a kraken". Other houses also have saves that won´t work against the location. Talking about the location, i think Greyjoy might be the best suited house for location control, so they really have a better chance to deal with Aegon´s hill than any other house in my opinion.

michel makes a really good point I forgot to hit on. The Challenges timing on the card is a huge balancer. The first two or three times I played it I used it in Marshalling, and it was way stronger when used there. If you can hit their hand before they drop their guys - Aegon's Hill is almost broken. Challenes is still good - but not as strong, and in my builds, not quite worth the cost. Still a really good, really strong card.

Old Ben is right. Also outside of Core Set Stannis, Greyjoy has the best ability to get through challenges with a single character so rarely need to depend on numbers to win challenges in a lot of their builds.

I disagree, 3/5 gold is nothing when you can dominate an opponent's hand especially when you want to plan a reset. If I spy into my opponent's hand and see one or no characters, I can valar and bank on the chance that he or she has a 50% chance of drawing any characters period next turn to defend and attack. And even if you see no characters in hand and think the effect was wasted, if you can intrigue you can cut down on the off chance removing a cheap chump character from your opponent's hand and get that nasty event or location removed. I have never met a careful opponent who doesn't keep a few good characters in his or her hand just in case of resets. You can get rid of carrion birds being saved until the season is changed insuring seasonal dominance, and you can see if he or she has any tricks up her sleeve during the challenges phase. I can not see any reason why you wouldn't want to include it. It practically can pay for itself for the utility it offers. And on top of everything it pressures your opponent and rushes their stratagey as you can see his or her hand and he or she is forced to put desireable/key characters immediately into play with little or no protection.

No one is arguing its power. People disagree how it compares to other cards needed in a deck. Targ for example requires a heavy investment in locations for most of its strategies, this is one more slot in the location category, one which means running with less gold, influence, or possibly more integral effect location, or one less attachment, character, or event. Some people are finding the decks they build running smoother with greater predictability and control when it is not in their deck.

And yes, Lannister can usually drop two additional gold for this without much of a hick-up, it is hardly necessary to their main themes. I doubt I would ever play with this card out of Lannister in Joust. Melee... I probably would for the sheer toolbox value. Until some sort of combo comes up that makes this huy more vicious I just don't see me using it in Targ joust all that much. Again not because it isn't powerful, but because LDC, Xaro's Home, and all those gold/influence producing locations are so much more integral to my ability to function.

dormouse said:

This is spot on. The issue with Aegon's Hill in Targ is trade-offs.

To have that potent ability early-mid game a Targ player is making trade-offs to get that ability. Either less influence producing locations (which Targ absolutely needs perhaps more than any other house) or less characters. If playing Aegon's Hill means not playing say Dany Targaryen for instance and as a result being very vulnerable to Intrigue challenges means that Targ could likely be losing that Flame-Kissed or Dragon Thief out of their hand as a trade-off for getting rid o the opponents character. In a house that can easily produce Gold (Lannister) Aegon's Hill ability would truly be frightening but Targ has a hard time with gold/influence resource balance. I really liked Flaming Pitch Tower a year ago, its ability is quite strong too, but it ended up in the box with my old decks for the same reason, resource locations in Targ are vitally important for a smooth consistent deck.

Now that said... If I'm NOT using burn or attachments as my main form of control in a Targ deck and I'm focusing more on deadly and stealth and tricons then Aegon goes in without a second thought. The problem is that as of right now, in joust, this is not a dependable deck type. I imagine after KLE is finished with its cycle and whatever they get out of PotS they may change. But right now it really feels like Targaryen has two good options for joust, which happen to also dovetail very nicely together. Melee, like I said that is a different story. Aegon's Hill in melee, I would always find a place for. Especially if I thought I was going to be facing Stark or another Targ deck. With To Be a Wolf suddenly can't choose two card types, whichever one is named and characters because I'll be able to strip it before they can get another effect off to protect it / put it into play. Against Targ and suddenly Challenge phase Ambush and Jumping Khal, and little Vis are a lot less of a problem.