Xwing comparisons aside, it is good to hear that people are having some success with the generic starvipers. while they may be overcosted, as we all know, mathwing cannot tell us everything, and the manuverabilty of a vessel counts for a lot. So, is it possible that a ship can be overcosted but still pull it's weight? I think sometimes that can be the case.

See also, tie defender. another ship that is likely overcosted, but anytime I play one it performs well, tears up lots of stuff, and goes down hard.

I think some people don't give enough credit to the dial or certain maneuver. Also, we're all different, you might be looking for something else in a dial than me.

Even if I had some success with it, I do believe that the Generic Starviper is slightly overcost. I'll need to continue to make some test drive with it, but I don't think you can just take a Starviper and expect it to deliver for his value. You need to work for it. Things can still go wrong pretty fast and you just lost 25+ points without even having a chance to shoot with it. So plan your next move correctly.

But this dial! Having all the 1 move green or white on a small base ship is incredible! Can't tell you how many times I wished that I could pull a straight or bank 1 in a Interceptor; People used to flying those craft know what I mean. Add to that Barrel Roll and Boost. Starvipers love fighting in an asteroid field, they're in their element! Use it to your advantage. And the Segnor Loop, it makes it so unpredictable. The enemy can't really block you, if he tries to and he guessed wrong, you're probably now right behind him. Next turn you can tail him by doing a smooth green move and realign with boost as needed. The lack of Hard 3 hurt it a little, but once you get use to it, the rest of the dial more than makes up for it.

So that's pretty much the thing with the Starviper. It does cost a lot, I can't deny it. But its dial is unique, it can pull some maneuver that no other craft can do. The only question you have to ask yourself is: Is this dial worth it for you? For me at least, it is. It is exactly what I am looking for in a ship: Lot of options.

Maybe I'm just being dense, but how is a Starviper not well costed at 25pts as compared to either the X or the TIE? I could see someone deciding to use two Academies over one SV, but for 4 points more than an X you get boost, barrel roll, one more green maneuver, and one more agility.

The value of a ship isn't just the ship itself, it's in the context of the rest of the squad too. Some squads a Viper'll be 25 points of blows up in the first three rounds. Team it with stuff it works well with though and it definitely pays itself back.

Maybe I'm just being dense, but how is a Starviper not well costed at 25pts as compared to either the X or the TIE? I could see someone deciding to use two Academies over one SV, but for 4 points more than an X you get boost, barrel roll, one more green maneuver, and one more agility.

X-Wing is also considered overcost. Better comparaison would be with with the B-Wing.

You have a better dial, 2 more agility and boost.

You trade those for 3 shields (and switching a hull to a shield), one more PS and three free points. You can then use those 3 points to flavor your B-Wing thanks to the Cannon (ion Cannon), system (FCS or AdvSensors) and possible crew (tactician) slot.

So, how much do you really thrust those green dice and dial? One of the first thing to learn with high Agility ship is to never thrust those green dice, they will fail you at the worst moment.

I personally love them, but I can understand why someone would prefer to stay away from them. Same with the Defender.

with all this said, I wonder if the actual scum x-wing (the Special-K Fighter) well have rebels green with envy (Don't be, if it's good it shows that FFG knows how to make an X-wing type ship viable )

from what we know, though, I think it's going to fall flat on its ass unless the other pilots are cheaper than their projected costs (Working back from cobra)

Maybe I'm just being dense, but how is a Starviper not well costed at 25pts as compared to either the X or the TIE? I could see someone deciding to use two Academies over one SV, but for 4 points more than an X you get boost, barrel roll, one more green maneuver, and one more agility.

why?

because it should be 25 points with autothrusters

from what we know, though, I think it's going to fall flat on its ass unless the other pilots are cheaper than their projected costs (Working back from cobra)

You're assuming you know how much Cobra pays for his ability. And even if it is the same as Wedge, that projects back to 20pt.

OP has completely missed the point. People want a fix for the X-Wing because it is the most iconic ship from the original movies after the Millennium Falcon and alongside the TIE Fighter, not because it's a 3 atk ship with 5 HP. The X-Wing is THE starfighter of the Star Wars universe for the majority of people familiar with the franchise. Nobody looks at a Star Viper and thinks of Star Wars.

Edit: Glad to hear OP is doing well with the Star Viper. I played a game against them and they can be quite deadly if the dice don't abandon them.

Well, this info will be super handy once Rebels can field StarVipers.

Savvy commentary as always.

Is your own commentary directed toward the relevance of my post? If so, I really dig the irony.

I thought the same thing after flying the Starviper for the first time. It perfectly demonstrates how the x-wing can be updated. It needs post dial movement. A free tile card that gives it a barrel roll (or a 3 point card that gives it boost and barrel roll) would do wonders for the game's namesake.

So is the alpha squadron interceptor overcosted? Because, after further looking at comparisons, the black sun enforcer is just an interceptor with a hull and shield upgrade.

So is the alpha squadron interceptor overcosted? Because, after further looking at comparisons, the black sun enforcer is just an interceptor with a hull and shield upgrade.

Do you see a lot of Alpha in competitions?

But the dial is also different. Without PtL, I definetly prefer the Starviper dial!

So is the alpha squadron interceptor overcosted? Because, after further looking at comparisons, the black sun enforcer is just an interceptor with a hull and shield upgrade.

I don't know. How many alphas do you see making top 8 at regionals?

So is the alpha squadron interceptor overcosted? Because, after further looking at comparisons, the black sun enforcer is just an interceptor with a hull and shield upgrade.

I don't know. How many alphas do you see making top 8 at regionals?

That's not the point. Plenty of ships that aren't overcosted don't touch the top 8.

Then that doesn't bode well for the over costed ones. What was your point again?

Then that doesn't bode well for the over costed ones. What was your point again?

big picture: generic starvipers are good, fun, and perform at a level that people wish the x-wing did.

Small picture: our basis for pricing ships may be flawed.

Anytime you wish to actually contribute, feel free.

Anytime you wish to actually contribute, feel free.

I'll be sure to do that, just as soon as I discover some inspiring commentary.

Those starvipers are bad too. You've just discovered that Iggy B is really good.

Then that doesn't bode well for the over costed ones. What was your point again?

big picture: generic starvipers are good, fun, and perform at a level that people wish the x-wing did.

Small picture: our basis for pricing ships may be flawed.

Good: Nobody can deny that the Starviper is good, but that the Generic Starviper is good for its price is still up for debate. I've had success with it in a tournament, but I still think it might be slightly overcost, and I need more than just one tournament to judge it. Maybe I was lucky, maybe the fact that people are not used to fly against it helped me. Success in one tournament is not enough. I'm glad that it is possible to have success with a Generic Starviper team, but I still would not say that it is priced correctly.

Fun: Very fun ship to fly! If you are into highly maneuvrable sneaky craft. If what you want is a reliable craft or can't handle to see the dice fail you once in a while, maybe you should look elsewhere.

Perform at a level that people wish the X-Wing did: Now that's where most people don't get your idea. Because Starviper and X-Wing are nothing alike. The stats are different, the action bar is different, the upgrade bar is different, the dial is different. And I don't think people would like it if the X-Wing was just a copy of the Starviper, especially since most people consider the Starviper overcost.

You had fun and success with generic Starviper, good. I agree that people don't give the ship enough credit. But do you really think that the X-Wing should have agility 3, boost, barrel roll, hard 1 and the S-Loop? Because that doesn't sound like an X-Wing to me.

I don't think the wing needs ALL those upgrades, but they've all been mentioned as possible fixes for the ship.

Mehaps X-Wing simply need decent ordnance aka Torps.

I don't think the wing needs ALL those upgrades, but they've all been mentioned as possible fixes for the ship.

So, by that logic, the generic B-Wing is the X-Wing fix you've been looking for: it's as durable as people would like the X-Wing to be, can barrel roll like a lot of people want the X-Wing to be able to, can pull a hard 1, and bonus point for at least being in the same faction and point range as the X-Wing. Problem solve, no need to ''fix'' the X-Wing.

EDIT: Forgot to say, you did mention earlier that you think the Starviper works exactly like the X-Wing should:

Which I don't think so, the X-Wing should not be able to Segnor Loop, barrel roll, boost, hard 1 turn... it's not that maneuvrable. I don't feel like controlling a X-Wing when I use a Starviper.

So is the alpha squadron interceptor overcosted? Because, after further looking at comparisons, the black sun enforcer is just an interceptor with a hull and shield upgrade.

Yes. The alpha should be 17 points. The stat line is only worth about 16 points, and boost/barrel roll isn't worth nearly as much on a PS1 ship as it is on higher PS ships. (I.e. Fel)

So is the alpha squadron interceptor overcosted? Because, after further looking at comparisons, the black sun enforcer is just an interceptor with a hull and shield upgrade.

Yes. The alpha should be 17 points. The stat line is only worth about 16 points, and boost/barrel roll isn't worth nearly as much on a PS1 ship as it is on higher PS ships. (I.e. Fel)

it can if you're a blocking badass

in fact, they may even cancel out Fel's boost/roll if properly positioned

wouldn't argue that the Alpha isn't overcosted, but then again I'm never using an 18 point tie fighter (that isn't howlie) with a name like mine

I'm curious, is any ship considered as cost effective or more cost effective than the TIE fighter? If not then maybe we've been wrong this whole time...

Do determinations of value take into consideration how 2 attack ships are worthless against 4+ agility? It may be efficient to get as many attack dice as possible into your list, but if that's done by spamming 2 dice ships that isn't as powerful as just say, 4 Sigma Phantoms.

It may be cost effective to get 16 attack dice out of 8 ships, but I'd rather have the same or even less attack dice concentrated into 3+ dice shots that will actually hit something. That's less cost effective from a pure, "how many attack dice do I get" standpoint but mre effective in general.

So is the alpha squadron interceptor overcosted? Because, after further looking at comparisons, the black sun enforcer is just an interceptor with a hull and shield upgrade.

Yes. The alpha should be 17 points. The stat line is only worth about 16 points, and boost/barrel roll isn't worth nearly as much on a PS1 ship as it is on higher PS ships. (I.e. Fel)

The torpedo slot on the SV miiight be worth 1 point as well, looking at the math.