Part of the reason I'm on hiatus from X-Wing is because scum and villains seems to be the in thing. I know it opens up new avenues for that faction but thematically I'm more interested in the alliance and Empire factions. Coming up, Empire is going to have scum "gunships" to oppose the rebel freighters and special ships.

But I'm with Piett on this one, we don't need their scum. There are plenty of Imperial craft that could be used to stand-in for the bounty hunters ships we shouldn't have to use.

I'm making a thread about this though because we know very little about the scum ships we need to replace. HEre they come gives us a few keywords, but all the stat cards are hidden (and the rebel ones are revealed. Hah!).

Mel and a few other of the modelers here have created small ships we could use to replace the scum craft when we get here, but what else should we ask of them? What would you like to have on-hand to replace the scum ships if you also don't feel we need them?

And would you like your TO's to allow substitutions like this? Mechanically they should be identical to the ships they are replacing- you just want to trade out the mini and maybe the art on the card. Should this be allowed?

Just like I predicted the rogues and villains months before it was announced I am also confident we will get a heavy assault pack too, with things like missile gunboats, k wings, combat shuttles, assault transports etc.

Probably wave 3 or 4, and might mirror similar ships coming into x-wing (already have k-wing and TIE punisher announced.

I have a solution...

Don't buy rogues and villains...

I have a solution...

Don't buy rogues and villains...

Bahahaha

I am disappointed too. When you picture giant space battles you picture squadrons against squadrons with giant capital ships. I don't really picture a hwk-290 flying in a giant battle. And then the bounty hunters generally have their own agenda, which makes sense in x wing for little patrols, but does Ig88B really hate the rebellion to a point where he would just sign up to attack them and lead tie fighter squadrons? The answer is no. Ig88 is trying to build a robot society. And Is Bossk just going to fly in and act as a bomber? No. And I can't even picture Boba Fet getting paid to indiscriminately kill random rebels (or terrorists). And I don't know to much legends but I'm pretty sure the rebel rogues didn't do large scale battles too often. It just isn't very logical. But don't get me wrong these are awesome characters, just ones that i think shouldn't come out before the real affiliated ships like decimators, Lambdas, phantoms, etc come out. At least for the Empire. But now to stay competitive we will most likely need to use these for our builds.

A more significant thing this says to me is that we may not be seeing a 3rd Armada faction for a while (if ever) if they're tapping out most of the S&V for Imperial named squadrons.

Not like it couldn't have been a Decimator, Lambda, Stormtrooper Transport, and Skipray wave...

I have a solution...

Don't buy rogues and villains...

A fair point, but why pass on them when I can re-theme them?

A practical concern also, is that lists that avoid using Rogues and Villains might be at a disadvantage to those that don't. Until we have some numbers to compare and proxies to push around, who knows? Maybe Aggressors end up being so powerful to the point of obsoleting interceptors for their cost. So passing up on a new game piece for possible lists also has meta consequences as well. Which I'm thinking of circumventing with proxies, hence the thread.

I have a solution...

Don't buy rogues and villains...

A fair point, but why pass on them when I can re-theme them?

A practical concern also, is that lists that avoid using Rogues and Villains might be at a disadvantage to those that don't. Until we have some numbers to compare and proxies to push around, who knows? Maybe Aggressors end up being so powerful to the point of obsoleting interceptors for their cost. So passing up on a new game piece for possible lists also has meta consequences as well. Which I'm thinking of circumventing with proxies, hence the thread.

To each his own, but your ideas do sound cool:)

I am pro well made replacements - if you can provide the original model in the same numbers as you use the stand-in. I will use the S&V for my Empire, as my forces shall be shaped after Zsinjs, who even hired pirates for major engagements.

You need the expansion so people can buy the Falcon. Without the Falcon and Han, you can't really call it a Star Wars game.

The great thing about Armada so far is that the basic Empire fighters stand on their own so well, and fighter combat tends to be more about how you approach it during a game and not what list you brought. The Falcon and the Firespray are going to be tough nuts to crack, but jumping on them with a couple Interceptors with a Flight Controller will still easily be their end.

(And since the fighter packs don't come with upgrade cards, you aren't forced to buy Rogues and Villains for those either!)

I am disappointed too. When you picture giant space battles you picture squadrons against squadrons with giant capital ships. I don't really picture a hwk-290 flying in a giant battle. And then the bounty hunters generally have their own agenda, which makes sense in x wing for little patrols, but does Ig88B really hate the rebellion to a point where he would just sign up to attack them and lead tie fighter squadrons? The answer is no. Ig88 is trying to build a robot society. And Is Bossk just going to fly in and act as a bomber? No. And I can't even picture Boba Fet getting paid to indiscriminately kill random rebels (or terrorists). And I don't know to much legends but I'm pretty sure the rebel rogues didn't do large scale battles too often. It just isn't very logical. But don't get me wrong these are awesome characters, just ones that i think shouldn't come out before the real affiliated ships like decimators, Lambdas, phantoms, etc come out. At least for the Empire. But now to stay competitive we will most likely need to use these for our builds.

Mostly I agree.

However, the Rebel heroes I can certainly see flying into battle. The Falcon was at Endor, even. As for Scum....I wouldn't put it past the Empire to hire the top bounty hunters like Fett to assist, since they were already on payroll. It does, however, seem beneath the hunter to just kill arbitrary Rebs.

And IG88B had other interests to protect, yes, but they coincided with the Empire's goals.

For anyone who doesn't know much about IG's: there are four of them. B is the one we see in the movies. C and D, we do not see. A...A is there, but you'd never know it.

A was the first to come online. He killed his creator, and activated the other 3, splitting his own consciousness into them. Their goal was to eliminate organic life. They almost did. They started by injecting a virus into a few droids on the planet Mechis III: a planet which manufactured the majority of the galaxy's droids. The virus spread, and the IG's turned every droid into a murderer. The droids killed the few organics on the planet, and C & D continued production of infected droids.

B was their face, their income; by picking up bounties, he could supply the team with resources and it put him in a position of power. While aboard the Executor, he hacked the computer and found information on the Death Star.

After hearing about this, A hijacked a ship carrying the Death STar II's power core or main computer or something: I forget what, specifically. A slipped his own consciousness into the computer, and voila.

IG-88 now had control over the Death Star II. It was the one blowing apart rebel cruisers in Episode VI. Had the DSII not been blown up, IG-88A would have used the DSII (now full of infected droids) to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy.

TL;DR version: IG-88A controlled the Death Star II, and IG-88B wants to protect him so he'd totally fly around and kill Rebels.

I will likely run Boba Fett every chance I can.

A Galaxy Far, Far Away is Boba's Galaxy and everyone else are unimportant posers.

And would you like your TO's to allow substitutions like this? Mechanically they should be identical to the ships they are replacing- you just want to trade out the mini and maybe the art on the card. Should this be allowed?

I wouldn't want it in a tournament. Its hard enough keeping things straight with which model does what and has which upgrades let alone having to remember which model you are proxying. There is a good reason why pretty much all tournaments don't allow proxies. Casual play though- two thumbs up.

I don't foresee a Scum faction, the way that we have in X-Wing. Then again, I remember the heated debate that had a ton of people claiming the same for X-Wing last year, and here we are.

While I loyally only fly for the Empire, I think it's a great thing that Scum came out. It really kicked the somewhat stale existing meta in the teeth, and really opened up the game.

I also think that scum could add a lot of flavor to Armada, if they included interesting missions or objectives along with bulk freighters and the like. Aside from protecting planets and space stations from invasion/bombardment, the point of a navy is to protect or interdict interstellar traffic of freighters and transports.

Star Wars, Empire at War: Forces of Corruption has set the stage for S&V in Armada long before this thread existed

while I don't share the trepidation against scum and villains, I do find it weird that the rebs are getting their iconic stuff but the empire isn't (I guess lambdas would look weird) not even their EU stuff like the Deci, which I fully expected to make a showing.

well, maybe they're slated for wave 3

Not playing forces of corruption might disqualify my opinion, but for whatever it's worth, it felt to me like the the Zann consortium was forced into the lore. New Imperial craft were designed specifically for Zann to steal, and from what I've read of the campaign Zann does what any self-insertion fan fiction author does by being a pupil of Jabba's, Thrawn's personal enemy, and even stealing the Eclipse (letting it go not because Dark Empire says so it, but because "It's too high profile of a target").

I can believe in individual pirate bands but not an entire criminal faction. S&V works in X-Wing because it can represent raiding parties or a bounty hunter crew... apart from the mary-sue faction Zann leads, the only other significant third parties in the Galacitc Civil war were other minor governments. I feel they should get the limelight before any Scum factions show up.

I'd like to see a Hapan Battle dragon long before an Aggressor.

At first scum were the opposing characters to the rebels anti-hero. It sort of made Boba Fet the nemesis of Han Solo. So when Han Solo's iconic ship the Millennium Falcon entered the natural counterpart were the Bounty Hunter scum Boba Fet.

However a two sided battle can only go so far. Often than not there are 3rd party participants in a conflict and historically those 3rd party participants can change the outcome of the battle depending on who they sided with later on. So yeah I could see the desire to add a neutral faction to the famous Galactic Empire vs Rebel Alliance Star Wars.

Now as it has been said there is no plans for making a 3rd faction for Armada (of course everyone knows there was no plans for a 3rd faction in X-wing when it was developed too). However I do agree with the statement on making Scum and Villainy an Empire faction is that Armada is on a larger scale as often the splintered and factional belligerents often side with one of the opposing alliances with the occasional faction switching sides (Italy in WW1). There is a reason why very few wars have 3 opposing sides.

While I really like other factions for Armada (Pirates, Independents etc...) like you see them in TIE-Fighter (I think that was a very good part of it), I dont like Scum and Mercenaries in Armada. First thing they already got silly plot armour (a simple YT-1300 has more health than a whole squadron of Y-Wings?), second they dont fit the setting. Its a military setting with a navy that has no need of hired guns and Mercenaries at all.

And the Rebellion is very low on credits, so it has to rely on heros.

I have a solution...

Don't buy rogues and villains...

Oh how smart, and what if you opponent bought them and uses them in your games?

I didn't like the inclusion of S&V into X-wing at first, but now I love them.

However, I don't like how S&V are implemented in Armada for several reasons. Firstly, the scum should be their own faction. Secondly, due to the scale of the game I just don't see how scum can compete with the Rebels and Imperials when it comes to capital ship combat. Third, I also agree that having single ships act as a squadron feels wonky to me.

Lastly, Armada feels more military to me due to the fact the sides are committing tens of thousands of servicemen to each fight. How can a few individual scum or rogues make a difference?

I will likely run Boba Fett every chance I can.

A Galaxy Far, Far Away is Boba's Galaxy and everyone else are unimportant posers.

Fact.

I didn't like the inclusion of S&V into X-wing at first, but now I love them.

However, I don't like how S&V are implemented in Armada for several reasons. Firstly, the scum should be their own faction. Secondly, due to the scale of the game I just don't see how scum can compete with the Rebels and Imperials when it comes to capital ship combat. Third, I also agree that having single ships act as a squadron feels wonky to me.

Lastly, Armada feels more military to me due to the fact the sides are committing tens of thousands of servicemen to each fight. How can a few individual scum or rogues make a difference?

I totally agree, however, the whole thing about (paraphrasing) "a few individuals making a difference" is the underlying premise of the Rebels though isn't it?

Not playing forces of corruption might disqualify my opinion, but for whatever it's worth, it felt to me like the the Zann consortium was forced into the lore. New Imperial craft were designed specifically for Zann to steal, and from what I've read of the campaign Zann does what any self-insertion fan fiction author does by being a pupil of Jabba's, Thrawn's personal enemy, and even stealing the Eclipse (letting it go not because Dark Empire says so it, but because "It's too high profile of a target").

I can believe in individual pirate bands but not an entire criminal faction. S&V works in X-Wing because it can represent raiding parties or a bounty hunter crew... apart from the mary-sue faction Zann leads, the only other significant third parties in the Galacitc Civil war were other minor governments. I feel they should get the limelight before any Scum factions show up.

I'd like to see a Hapan Battle dragon long before an Aggressor.

nah you're right in that the Zann consortion was some mary sue **** (their ships were even overpowered)

but the awesome ships are there. They're either older models (skiprays ) or these incredibly crazy cool looking things like the vengence frigate or these giant ships

I have a solution...

Don't buy rogues and villains...

Oh how smart, and what if you opponent bought them and uses them in your games?

then you get to get over yourself and still enjoy an awesome game of star wars armada

The Zann consortion is just another very implausible Invention, when the writers/producers took an easy way. I mean a(nother) Criminal Network possessing a lot of Star Destroyers that are even more expensive than the Imperial-class ones?

They dont even used the well established Black-Sun, no it had to be something new (again) that in fact had no place in the setting.

again, **** Zann

I just want the ships