Maybe you should reread my post, because I didn't restrict my analysis to just land forces. "Military personnel" includes those who work across all mediums, Pearl Harbor was a naval conflict, "pirates" mainly like to operate on the ocean, etc. Also, my post was largely about the idea that groups other than developed nations can be relevant in war, naval or otherwise.

I also didn't say SvN had to fight in a "professional" manner or on the same terms as the Empire or Rebellion. I also didn't say they were ragtag, uniform, officially organized, centrally located, or ill-equipped.

Personally, I don't think of SvN as simply Boko Haram or ISIS by itself. I think of them as Blackbeard the Pirate, Anonymous, Alaric the Visigoth, Blackwater Company, and all of the above combined criminal enterprises vying for the same selfish, common goals (hence the ambiguous name for the faction).

You made a lot of great points, but respectfully, I still disagree.

As for the Middle-East and South and Central-American narco cartels... well, let's include much of Africa, too. Short version is that they pose a threat, but only in small skirmishes. Whenever they get together a large group to have a stand-up, knock-down fight against even moderately modern, relatively disciplined, trained forces, they get knocked down.

Yes, I agree with that. If you're completely outclassed as a conventional military, you don't fight a conventional war. But that doesn't mean that you can't win a war as an irregular force against a conventional force. Not all wars are conventional. The "successes" you mention of Iraq and Afghanistan seem rather hollow at this juncture.

To a degree the skirmishes that we model in Armada are an attempt to marry the stand-up-and-fight noblesse of conventional war and combine it with the drama of a David vs. Goliath odds of a rebellion against an Empire. Call it the epic of George Washington, but then in space.

But if depicting the Rebellion against the Empire doesn't break our sense of what is realistic, why should Scum vs. the Empire? I think that we square the paradox by arguing that the skirmishes being fought are those that are carefully chosen by a guerrilla force (the Rebellion ... or Scum) against the Empire, where the Empire is stretched thin.

Lore

The use of the phrase 'military' suggests to me that many people here are thinking too much in our (present-day) world than in a galaxy far, far away. In our world, mercenaries do exist, but the Westphalian state system essentially did away with them, with states being the monopolies on the use of large-scale force. But the SW galaxy has a much different political structure. There are factions other than the Rebellion and the Empire that could afford ships at capital scale quite easily. The Hutts are the elephant in the china closet, in that respect, but you also have the Corporate Sector and the Hapans, etc. Beyond that, with the Outer Rim being like Afghanistan, Northern Iraq/NE Syria, the DRC, Somalia write huge, there's absolutely room for cartels to have capital-scale ships.

However it state in teh galaxy is a bit different. While the Outer Rim is wild, there are also not a lot of resources there. Nobody can try to build a fleet to match the rebellion or the Emprie out there. And the Empires military might is so huge, that they would destory any open force that begins to threat them.

However in Armada all you need is someone to get his hands on two medium sized ships... and you have an armada battle.

This sort of thing is why I'm delighted they wiped away all that EU nonsense.

Because the 6 movies are not full of nonsense...

And yet the Korean and Vietnam wars happened with China being a big part of the conflict. Big nations using "lesser" nations as pawns in a war (both official and unofficial). Happens all the time...sadly.

Just because a war is a losing proposition to the outside observer doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. If history teaches us anything, it's that it will happen.

Bigger nations only use pawns when they are unwillig to do the war on their own. The Alliance and the Empire are already in (civil) war.

Having a Mandalorian faction would be sweet. Not necessarily correct to the lore, but who would even care?

In another time frame (Very old Republic). Or do you want more hospital-ships?

It's significant that no modern war, outside of World War II, has involved fleet-scale naval engagements. There's a reason for that - to really fight a naval war, the combatants must have relatively equal naval strength. The ocean is big, but it's not infinite, and while fleets of ships can run, they can't really hide. The more powerful force can usually force an engagement, and when it does so, it will usually win. Sometimes, the superior power doesn't even need to force a fight - in both World War I and World War II, the German navy (with the very notable exception of the U-Boats) spent pretty much the entire war holed up in the Baltic because if it sailed into the Atlantic it would've immediately been sunk by the British Navy.

While anything else you said is true and on spot, this is not accurate. The Germany navy in World War I did sail out some times, and even managed to have the upperhand against the British Navy in their engagments and in WWII they performed a lot of commerce raiding (which of course let to the destruction of all german warships) with a very high cost for the Allies.

As somebody with a degree in World History, I can say that many ideas and opinions expressed in this thread are indeed supported with factual evidence. Throughout history, disadvantaged criminal/barbaric/warlord/tribal/dictatorial/minority/expansionist communities have banded together in large scale to successfully challenge modern nations.

There's no debate that the Empire in Star Wars is spread thin across the galaxy, and being so "spread out" comes with many logistical consequences.

• The ancient Western Romans were spread thin and let the many independent barbarian tribes overwhelm their European and African frontiers. I think it's very plausible for the SnV to pick-and-chose favorable engagements in the Outer Rim, and Armada can definitely represent that on a table.
• The feudal Byzantines were spread thin, were in a seemingly unending economic crisis, and (eventually) lost the war of attrition on both sides of Constantinople. The Rebels and Empire are heavily invested in fighting each other, so it's plausible that the SnV black market, backed by the Hutt Cartels, can economically rival the tired and taxed war-economies of the Rebellion and Empire (again, especially if we're fighting in the Outer Rim). Thus, it's not a stretch for the SnV to be able to, fluff wise, match the "points" of another faction's fleet in Armada.
• As a rule, Attila the Hun didn't have any siege weaponry in his horde, but he brought down castles by using mercenary, stolen, or improvised siege equipment. The SvN faction doesn't necessarily need huge, grand, technologically advanced Super Star Destroyers from industrially developed ship yards from their deeply economically developed planets; they can improvise.
• Speaking of big ships, there were plenty of pirates in the Caribbean that stole, maintained, improved (and in some rare cases, built) their own battleships. Pirate warfare meant having fast frigates to board and steal huge ships of the line that they could use or sell. SvN can plausibly field Large starships in Armada, and they have every reason to fight and try to steal other large ships in Armada.

The American Navy was spread thin in the 1930s, and in anticipation of a war in the Pacific, they rendezvoused most of their fleet at Pearl Harbor (and in hindsight, suffered dearly for it on Dec 7, 1941). Some people in this thread have suggested that the Empire could easily form up and overwhelm the SnV faction(s), and that doesn't make sense to me from a real world perspective, especially with the Empire trying to maintain a front against the Rebels.

Somebody said something about the United States being able to easily crush North Korea with only a handful of military hardware, and that's simply not true. North Korea has the 4th largest pool of active military personnel in the world. North Korea has the #1 largest military in the world if you combine that with their reserve and paramilitary personnel. Our commanders have said plenty of times on cable news networks that it would take months to raise our "military readiness" to a level that could compete with North Korea, and that's including a draft (again, because the United States military is so spread out). I do indeed think that, in the end, we would eventually win in a 1-on-1 war against North Korea. However, I also think that it would definitively be one of the toughest wars in our nations history, and we wouldn't be able to do it without help from our allies.

Mikael Hasselstein's comments about how Middle Eastern warlords control land, collect taxes, and fight wars is sound, correct, and would make sense for SnV in Armada.

I completely agree with Killionaire's last comment too.

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TL;DR Version: Star Wars: Forces of Corruption wasn't a stretch by means of real world examples.

Star Wars: Armada is my favorite game from FFG, I have a lot of money already invested in both factions, and if they are thinking about bringing SnV to the game someday in the future, they can definitely mark me as an eager customer.

All your examples show us that they dont fit. You show us Empires in rapid decline, something the Emprie was not before Endor. The Empire has a firm grip on the Core Worlds, any larger fleet can only hope to face annihaltion there (thats why the Rebellion only forced small engagments there).

And you perception of North Korea is also a bit wrong. While their numbers are great the quality of their troops and equipment makes them a poor force. But of course they can take on any unprepared force.

Lore

The use of the phrase 'military' suggests to me that many people here are thinking too much in our (present-day) world than in a galaxy far, far away. In our world, mercenaries do exist, but the Westphalian state system essentially did away with them, with states being the monopolies on the use of large-scale force. But the SW galaxy has a much different political structure. There are factions other than the Rebellion and the Empire that could afford ships at capital scale quite easily. The Hutts are the elephant in the china closet, in that respect, but you also have the Corporate Sector and the Hapans, etc. Beyond that, with the Outer Rim being like Afghanistan, Northern Iraq/NE Syria, the DRC, Somalia write huge, there's absolutely room for cartels to have capital-scale ships.

However it state in teh galaxy is a bit different. While the Outer Rim is wild, there are also not a lot of resources there. Nobody can try to build a fleet to match the rebellion or the Emprie out there. And the Empires military might is so huge, that they would destory any open force that begins to threat them.

However in Armada all you need is someone to get his hands on two medium sized ships... and you have an armada battle.

Why do you say there are not a lot of resources in the Outer Rim? By my reading, there's tons of resources out there; it's certainly where most of the rebel fleet-building capacity is located.

Why do you figure the Hutts could not easily build (or buy) a fleet to contend with the fleet of the Rebellion?

Lore

The use of the phrase 'military' suggests to me that many people here are thinking too much in our (present-day) world than in a galaxy far, far away. In our world, mercenaries do exist, but the Westphalian state system essentially did away with them, with states being the monopolies on the use of large-scale force. But the SW galaxy has a much different political structure. There are factions other than the Rebellion and the Empire that could afford ships at capital scale quite easily. The Hutts are the elephant in the china closet, in that respect, but you also have the Corporate Sector and the Hapans, etc. Beyond that, with the Outer Rim being like Afghanistan, Northern Iraq/NE Syria, the DRC, Somalia write huge, there's absolutely room for cartels to have capital-scale ships.

However it state in teh galaxy is a bit different. While the Outer Rim is wild, there are also not a lot of resources there. Nobody can try to build a fleet to match the rebellion or the Emprie out there. And the Empires military might is so huge, that they would destory any open force that begins to threat them.

However in Armada all you need is someone to get his hands on two medium sized ships... and you have an armada battle.

Why do you say there are not a lot of resources in the Outer Rim? By my reading, there's tons of resources out there; it's certainly where most of the rebel fleet-building capacity is located.

Why do you figure the Hutts could not easily build (or buy) a fleet to contend with the fleet of the Rebellion?

Compared to the core worlds ther is no much of industrial resources in the Outer-Rim. The Alliance struggled to build up a fleet until the MonCals (Core) joined them.

The Hutts are a criminal cartel, financial and criminal power doesnt give you the possibility to obtain a military fleet. Someone has to build the Warships, and buidling battlecruisers cannot be done without anyone noticing in the Core Worlds. Once the Emprie was out to controll the Battlecruiser build the New Republic soon gained enough power to controll that themselve.

You see even Thrawn struggled to gain capital warships and his possibilites were much larger than that of the Hutts.

Compared to the core worlds ther is no much of industrial resources in the Outer-Rim. The Alliance struggled to build up a fleet until the MonCals (Core) joined them.

The Hutts are a criminal cartel, financial and criminal power doesnt give you the possibility to obtain a military fleet. Someone has to build the Warships, and buidling battlecruisers cannot be done without anyone noticing in the Core Worlds. Once the Emprie was out to controll the Battlecruiser build the New Republic soon gained enough power to controll that themselve.

You see even Thrawn struggled to gain capital warships and his possibilites were much larger than that of the Hutts.

Compared to the Core, no, but there's nevertheless plenty of productive capacity out there. Consider all the civilian shipyards out on the Rim, e.g. Sluis Van, Sullust, Rothana, Alui, Bothawui, Lianna etc. For scum, it should not be too difficult a task to purchase civilian ships, which can then be refitted for combat somewhere off the grid. Hell, there's no reason why they couldn't buy ship from shipyards in the Core. There's a ton of civilian shipyards there too.

Furthermore, the rebellion obtained many of their starships (e.g. Neb-Bs) through theft. I imagine that cartels are quite good at theft. Same goes for obtaining old military surplus or decommissioned ships. After the Clone War, there's probably plenty around. With the Empire upgrading to new ships, the old ships can easily find their way into illicit hands.

Why would Thrawn's possibilities be much larger than that of the Hutts? The area he controlled was not all that much larger than Hutt Space, and the Hutts were not openly at war with any side. I'm sure they could have easily played middle man for any scum faction, buying ships legitimately and then selling them off illegitimately. So long as they bribe the regulators at BoSS, what would prevent it from happening?

Compared to the core worlds ther is no much of industrial resources in the Outer-Rim. The Alliance struggled to build up a fleet until the MonCals (Core) joined them.

The Hutts are a criminal cartel, financial and criminal power doesnt give you the possibility to obtain a military fleet. Someone has to build the Warships, and buidling battlecruisers cannot be done without anyone noticing in the Core Worlds. Once the Emprie was out to controll the Battlecruiser build the New Republic soon gained enough power to controll that themselve.

You see even Thrawn struggled to gain capital warships and his possibilites were much larger than that of the Hutts.

Compared to the Core, no, but there's nevertheless plenty of productive capacity out there. Consider all the civilian shipyards out on the Rim, e.g. Sluis Van, Sullust, Rothana, Alui, Bothawui, Lianna etc. For scum, it should not be too difficult a task to purchase civilian ships, which can then be refitted for combat somewhere off the grid. Hell, there's no reason why they couldn't buy ship from shipyards in the Core. There's a ton of civilian shipyards there too.

Furthermore, the rebellion obtained many of their starships (e.g. Neb-Bs) through theft. I imagine that cartels are quite good at theft. Same goes for obtaining old military surplus or decommissioned ships. After the Clone War, there's probably plenty around. With the Empire upgrading to new ships, the old ships can easily find their way into illicit hands.

Why would Thrawn's possibilities be much larger than that of the Hutts? The area he controlled was not all that much larger than Hutt Space, and the Hutts were not openly at war with any side. I'm sure they could have easily played middle man for any scum faction, buying ships legitimately and then selling them off illegitimately. So long as they bribe the regulators at BoSS, what would prevent it from happening?

You are right. There are a couple of major shipyards in the Outer Rim, but they also attact a lot of attention.

Alos right, that you might be able to purchase a lot of civilian ships. But the great ability of the Mon Calamari was, that they could refit civilian vessels into warshisps. Otherwise even refittet civilian vessel wont be able to stand up to warships.

Most of the Rebel ships were not even stolen but captured, and even their thefts needed special teams and a military infrastructure.

Thrawn controlled much more space than the hutss and already had a still powerful military to aid his accuisiton of more ships, something the Hutts never had.

I am with you that single warships (mostly mid-sized) might easly end up in the hands of piratens and criminals. But that doesnt make them a military force. To be a military force you need a supply and command chain and that most time more important that the number of ships you have.

Somebody said something about the United States being able to easily crush North Korea with only a handful of military hardware, and that's simply not true. North Korea has the 4th largest pool of active military personnel in the world. North Korea has the #1 largest military in the world if you combine that with their reserve and paramilitary personnel. Our commanders have said plenty of times on cable news networks that it would take months to raise our "military readiness" to a level that could compete with North Korea, and that's including a draft (again, because the United States military is so spread out). I do indeed think that, in the end, we would eventually win in a 1-on-1 war against North Korea. However, I also think that it would definitively be one of the toughest wars in our nations history, and we wouldn't be able to do it without help from our allies.

Right, that was me, except that's not what I said. I said we'd wipe out the North Korean "navy" in a matter of days, which is most definitely true. The only elements that would last longer would be their submarine fleet, maybe, but there isn't a direct equivalent to submarines in Star Wars. Star Wars ships are, by and large, analogous to real world surface ships. And North Korea's surface ships would be sunk in days if we went to war.

It's significant that no modern war, outside of World War II, has involved fleet-scale naval engagements. There's a reason for that - to really fight a naval war, the combatants must have relatively equal naval strength. The ocean is big, but it's not infinite, and while fleets of ships can run, they can't really hide. The more powerful force can usually force an engagement, and when it does so, it will usually win. Sometimes, the superior power doesn't even need to force a fight - in both World War I and World War II, the German navy (with the very notable exception of the U-Boats) spent pretty much the entire war holed up in the Baltic because if it sailed into the Atlantic it would've immediately been sunk by the British Navy.

While anything else you said is true and on spot, this is not accurate. The Germany navy in World War I did sail out some times, and even managed to have the upperhand against the British Navy in their engagments and in WWII they performed a lot of commerce raiding (which of course let to the destruction of all german warships) with a very high cost for the Allies.

The High Seas Fleet really only sailed out a couple of times, with only one real engagement taking place (Jutland), and even Jutland never saw the two fleets directly engaging one another.

In World War 2 I don't believe much if any surface commerce raiding took place after 1940 - if I recall correctly, after the sinking of Graf Spee in 1939 and Bismarck in 1940 the Kriegsmarine more or less abandoned surface commerce raiding. Admiral Scheer was the most successful commerce raider of the war and she was basically inactive after April 1940.

Somebody said something about the United States being able to easily crush North Korea with only a handful of military hardware, and that's simply not true. North Korea has the 4th largest pool of active military personnel in the world. North Korea has the #1 largest military in the world if you combine that with their reserve and paramilitary personnel. Our commanders have said plenty of times on cable news networks that it would take months to raise our "military readiness" to a level that could compete with North Korea, and that's including a draft (again, because the United States military is so spread out). I do indeed think that, in the end, we would eventually win in a 1-on-1 war against North Korea. However, I also think that it would definitively be one of the toughest wars in our nations history, and we wouldn't be able to do it without help from our allies.

Objection: you're thinking of a war of liberation, or a conquest, or an otherwise "civilized" war. If we wanted to simply eliminate NK as a threat, it could be done in 12 hours. You know, if we were in a hurry, and didn't have any consequences to worry about. A handfull of ICBMs, or an overfly by a wing of B-52s would work just fine.

The empire blows up whole planets in order to make a point. I don't think they would have nay trouble bombarding a Pirate facility into rubble. Remember, even the Rebels, the other major faction in the game, never stand up to the Empire; when their base is discovered, they run like hell.

Somebody said something about the United States being able to easily crush North Korea with only a handful of military hardware, and that's simply not true. North Korea has the 4th largest pool of active military personnel in the world. North Korea has the #1 largest military in the world if you combine that with their reserve and paramilitary personnel. Our commanders have said plenty of times on cable news networks that it would take months to raise our "military readiness" to a level that could compete with North Korea, and that's including a draft (again, because the United States military is so spread out). I do indeed think that, in the end, we would eventually win in a 1-on-1 war against North Korea. However, I also think that it would definitively be one of the toughest wars in our nations history, and we wouldn't be able to do it without help from our allies.

Objection: you're thinking of a war of liberation, or a conquest, or an otherwise "civilized" war. If we wanted to simply eliminate NK as a threat, it could be done in 12 hours. You know, if we were in a hurry, and didn't have any consequences to worry about. A handfull of ICBMs, or an overfly by a wing of B-52s would work just fine.

The empire blows up whole planets in order to make a point. I don't think they would have nay trouble bombarding a Pirate facility into rubble. Remember, even the Rebels, the other major faction in the game, never stand up to the Empire; when their base is discovered, they run like hell.

This is a great point.

This is why a MAJOR player with an established base of operations - say, the Hutts, whose homeworld obviously is Nal Hutta - would never make a play against the Empire. The Empire could - and would - simply send in a fleet of several Star Destroyers and raze Nal Hutta to the ground.

The Rebels can run, the Hutts can't. Same with the Mandalorians, from what little I know of them, or the Hapans, etc. If the Black Sun or Zann Consortium fielded even moderately sized fleets, it's extremely likely the Empire would know where they were based, and destroy those bases.

By the time we see the Rebels fielding large numbers of capital ships (Endor), they've gained at least some capability to defend the worlds that produce those ships (Mon Calamari, for instance). There was no Rebel fleet at Hoth, and when the Empire attacked the Rebels were forced to evacuate.

Not every nation/empire/community I listed was necessarily in decline. Plus, an entity can be at the golden age of their power (wealth, peace, etc.) and will often times still be facing several challenges (military, political, economical, cultural, logistical, etc.) and its consequences thereof.

Generally speaking, when it comes to war, so-called "experts" throughout modern history have gone on the record for saying that upcoming wars will be "quick and easy", only to be sorely mistaken afterwards. The British thought they'd be done with World War I in just a few weeks, Hitler thought (with his blitzkrieg of France as an example) that he could easily take over Russia before the following Winter in World War II, we (the United States) almost got pushed out of Korea during the Korean War (General MacArthur even suggested all-out nuclear warfare against the Chinese), we embarrassed ourselves at Vietnam, in hindsight the War on Terror has been far more taxing then we originally thought it would be, etc. Unless we're the Barbary States, I don't envision nations going to war with their navies without the intention to eventually bring the war to land. Thus, maybe we can agree to disagree about the military capabilities of North Korea and the hypothetical outcomes of a war with them, conventional or not.

Back to Star Wars -- The way I understand it, FFG developers aren't limiting their products at simply the canon Episodes 4-6, and George Lucas didn't stop at just World War II for real world inspiration when he created Star Wars. FFG is pulling material from EU and videogames, and Star Wars draws inspiration across several eras of human history. There's no reason the fluff and development of Armada should be any different. SvN is already established in X-Wing and was drawn from Star Wars: Forces of Corruption. I'm pretty sure the FFG Developers aren't arguing about the authenticity of Zann Consortium capital ships because they're already there with a backstory of why they're legitimate, and the question of whether or not to implement them is more of a business decision than a deliberation of lore and fluff, as some of us early in this thread have already pointed out.

I'm glad we can agree that the Core World's aren't the center of all the galaxy's production. Even if it was, there's no reason why SvN can't smuggle materials out of the Core World's to build their ships in the Outer Rim. If the United States CIA can secretly buy titanium (which was extremely low in supply at the time) from the Soviet Union to help develop the SR71 Blackbird, I can believe that SvN factions are secretly buying durasteel and whatnot from the Core World's military industrial complex.

Armada is not taking place at an extremely specific, deliberate point in the Star Wars timeline. We can sit here and argue whether the Empire is at their golden age or not, if they could easily crush this guy or that planet, but it doesn't change the fact that on the tabletop, my opponent has the same amount of points as I do.

I want to repeat that I don't think we would see a third faction for Armada for a long long long time. But if we do one day, I think SvN absolutely is a legitimate option and fair expectation.

But the great ability of the Mon Calamari was, that they could refit civilian vessels into warshisps. Otherwise even refittet civilian vessel wont be able to stand up to warships.

This is because they had the shipyards and could deal with the volume over the short period of time necessary to create the force that we saw at the Battle of Endor. However, in order to conceive of combat-worthy vessels for games of Armada, we don't need to conceive of that level of capacity for Scum factions. Despite the name, Armada's skirmishes are small-scale enough that this or that criminal cartel would be able to procure the number of ships necessary for a 180-300-400 point game.

Most of the Rebel ships were not even stolen but captured, and even their thefts needed special teams and a military infrastructure.

I guess you have a very narrow definition of what constitutes theft.

"Your honor, my client pleads not guilty to the charge of theft. He 'captured' the car at gunpoint from the plaintiff."

Thrawn controlled much more space than the hutss and already had a still powerful military to aid his accuisiton of more ships, something the Hutts never had.

Check out the map here. Yes, Thrawn controlled a bit more territory and did have a standing military, but you seem to dodge the point I'm making. The Hutts are in a fundamentally different position than Thrawn. The Hutts - as a collective - are not in direct conflict with anyone. They can act as middleman (or middleHutt) between shipyards and ship thieves/capturers on e the one hand, and warlord cartels on the other. Certainly enough to provide the latter with a number of ships for interesting Armada games. They don't need to be a power on the same order of the Empire, the New Republic, or Thrawn's remnant. The Rebellion wasn't that sort of power either, yet we have them in this game.

I am with you that single warships (mostly mid-sized) might easly end up in the hands of piratens and criminals. But that doesnt make them a military force. To be a military force you need a supply and command chain and that most time more important that the number of ships you have.

What you consider a military force is not a requisite for being included in this game. Despite the name, the skirmishes are small-scale enough that I can see warlord cartels out on the Outer Rim being supplied combat-capable ships that would be an interesting inclusion into the game, and I think that people would buy into it. We certainly see them included in Empire at War without any fuss of this sort.

My biggest dislike about Scum is that for some reason Imperials never get their own ships, they have to rely on bounty hunters. It is nonsense. Why would I want Bobba Fett when I could have a fleet of Missile Boats? This is the Imperial Navy, not the run and hide behind your paid mercs navy.

The smugglers work well for the Rebels because they actually are rebels in quite a few cases. I just want some Decimators, Lambdas, Missile Boats, or other real Imp fighters.

My biggest dislike about Scum is that for some reason Imperials never get their own ships, they have to rely on bounty hunters. It is nonsense. Why would I want Bobba Fett when I could have a fleet of Missile Boats? This is the Imperial Navy, not the run and hide behind your paid mercs navy.

The smugglers work well for the Rebels because they actually are rebels in quite a few cases. I just want some Decimators, Lambdas, Missile Boats, or other real Imp fighters.

It's pure politics. Someone convinced the Emperor that the private sector can get better results, and then there's a whole movement for so-called "public-private partnerships", and so forth.

But I'm with you and Admiral Piett. We don't need that scum.

I wonder how hard I should poke Mel to provide his Lambda, Sentinel, DX-7, and Escort shuttle in a shapeways pack.

Seems to me those are the best replacements for the scum craft provided. When we actually get to see the cards, then we can whip up some alt-art fronts to slip in the card sleeves. Done.