Has anyone actually seen a fielded fleet with 7 or so corvettes? You're more likely to see four gladiators with engine techs doing the same job. Great for killing the space whales!

Ramming is a viable tactic to build a list around.

Light No Fighters lists like 7 CR90 can do a guaranteed 7 damage a turn, which is enough to 1 shot an Assault Frigate or a VSD taking 1 DMG, still leaving 21 hull for the opponent to deal with.

Ramming alone is the reason Light No Fighters builds are viable in the W1 meta.

Balanced lists of 2 Ships + Fighters in particular are especially vulnerable as they can lose a capital ship a turn if they play carelessly.

aiyah, don't stir the pot man!

7 CR90s ramming isn't guaranteed 7 damage, because 7 CR90s ramming is hilariously unlikely to happen. Where the hell would they even fit on the base of a fattie? And what about the system of alternating activations?

At best, unless played by some kind of Armada GOD, you're getting 2 rams realistically even the base size and angles of approach. You could probably up this to 4 rams with engine techs (if those work like that?), which is at least a good reason to take them on cr90s if you dont mind losing half their hull to their own damage , but let's not forget that beyond these theorycraft void numbers, there lies an entire strategic game that is going to be a bit more logistically challenging than just "rams happen"

1. Well in the other ramming thread I read a post where they house ruled that it was rolled dice based on ship size. This has a random element and removes the guarantee of damage. I would go one step simpler and just say that you take hull damage based on the size of the ship you were hit by/ran into. 1 for small 2 for medium 3 for large. This jives well with both the game and realistic theories I mentioned above. Piloting into a Vic was either a massive mistake (by either player), or a VERY carefully considered sacrifice for the greater good.

7 ships ramming one ship I can't see that happening. They will more likely ram each other. Trying to get past one another, or just miss due to trying to avoid ramming their own ships.

Your fix would just make large ships ram more. If a small ship came within ramming distance to my large ship. I wouldn't hesitate to ram it to deal 3 damage. If I can do 1 damage (corvette) 2 damage (Neb B) from firing, it would be a dead. I would probably ram the Medium base ships too.

Your just turning a hypothetical 7 ram damage into a no brainer 3 ram damage. You think ramming could be bad now. It would be the norm after a change like that.

Ramming is a viable tactic to build a list around.

Light No Fighters lists like 7 CR90 can do a guaranteed 7 damage a turn, which is enough to 1 shot an Assault Frigate or a VSD taking 1 DMG, still leaving 21 hull for the opponent to deal with.

Ramming alone is the reason Light No Fighters builds are viable in the W1 meta.

Balanced lists of 2 Ships + Fighters in particular are especially vulnerable as they can lose a capital ship a turn if they play carelessly.

aiyah, don't stir the pot man!

7 CR90s ramming isn't guaranteed 7 damage, because 7 CR90s ramming is hilariously unlikely to happen. Where the hell would they even fit on the base of a fattie? And what about the system of alternating activations?

At best, unless played by some kind of Armada GOD, you're getting 2 rams realistically even the base size and angles of approach. You could probably up this to 4 rams with engine techs (if those work like that?), which is at least a good reason to take them on cr90s if you dont mind losing half their hull to their own damage , but let's not forget that beyond these theorycraft void numbers, there lies an entire strategic game that is going to be a bit more logistically challenging than just "rams happen"

Hey not trur 7 cr90 can guarantee 7 rams a turn( is all going to be on the enemy ship? No not even close, maybe 4 if you spread out really well but not 7)

well then they're not one-shotting AFmk2s are they ?

Ramming is a viable tactic to build a list around.

Light No Fighters lists like 7 CR90 can do a guaranteed 7 damage a turn, which is enough to 1 shot an Assault Frigate or a VSD taking 1 DMG, still leaving 21 hull for the opponent to deal with.

Ramming alone is the reason Light No Fighters builds are viable in the W1 meta.

Balanced lists of 2 Ships + Fighters in particular are especially vulnerable as they can lose a capital ship a turn if they play carelessly.

aiyah, don't stir the pot man!

7 CR90s ramming isn't guaranteed 7 damage, because 7 CR90s ramming is hilariously unlikely to happen. Where the hell would they even fit on the base of a fattie? And what about the system of alternating activations?

At best, unless played by some kind of Armada GOD, you're getting 2 rams realistically even the base size and angles of approach. You could probably up this to 4 rams with engine techs (if those work like that?), which is at least a good reason to take them on cr90s if you dont mind losing half their hull to their own damage , but let's not forget that beyond these theorycraft void numbers, there lies an entire strategic game that is going to be a bit more logistically challenging than just "rams happen"

Hey not trur 7 cr90 can guarantee 7 rams a turn( is all going to be on the enemy ship? No not even close, maybe 4 if you spread out really well but not 7)

well then they're not one-shotting AFmk2s are they ?

That is in fact true

Balanced lists of 2 Ships + Fighters in particular are especially vulnerable as they can lose a capital ship a turn if they play carelessly.

You mean set their ship to speed 0 and skip their turns...

They don't have to ram all at the same time, you know.

Corvette 1 activates + Ram

Gladiator moves

Corvette 2 activates + RAm

ISD moves and crashes, 1 Hull

Corvette 3 activates + Ram new position

Corvette 4 activates + Ram new position

Corvette 5 activates + Dodonna's pride to do damage through shields + ram

etc.

While getting all 7 in is unlikely, Don't forget if the ISD isn't moving at speed 1 it's not going to clear a frontal ram other than firing. Getting two crits from Dodonna's pride which go through shields isn't hugely difficult either..

Darth Ruin

I agree with you that we could come up with several scenarios that allow us to achieve 7 rams in a turn. It also seems we agree that it’s unlikely to happen.

With that said. It would be cool if some group got together and made a 7 corvette list. To see what kinds of shenanigans they could pull off with ramming everything to victory. I’d be interested to hear what they find out.

If ramming was determined to be OP. The only fix I can come up with isn’t changing the ramming rules, but increasing the ships firing ranges. This then might result in a bigger first turn advantage. Bring up a new set of problems.

So without someone actually trying this build out we can only speculate as to its effectiveness.

They don't have to ram all at the same time, you know.

Corvette 1 activates + Ram

Gladiator moves

Corvette 2 activates + RAm

ISD moves and crashes, 1 Hull

crashes into what?

if you say the corvette, then I got news for you to the tune 8 dice from the front arc and the fact that ships shoot before they move

Yeah. Even with the pro-tournament bias on the forums here, I have to admit that ramming just isn't a viable tactic. We have insanely competitive everything in my FLGS, and no one here has done this, or successfully even pulled off more than two rams (which were unintentional). I don't really think it is broken. It just doesn't happen enough. I think if we see a big win with a list that specifically uses ramming as its tactic, then we can complain.

I like the idea of rolling dice based on ship size.

If my Corvette hits a Victory, I roll one die(small ship) to determine my hull damage inflicted.

The player controlling the Victory rolls two dice to determine damage inflicted to my Corvette from colliding with a medium ship.

I will say that if you look at the current rules, if a Corvette rams a Victory, it loses 25% of its Hull, compared to a Victory losing 12.5%, and the Corvette loses one speed. From that perspective, it seems fair.

I have no opinion on whether this is a valid tactic or "in the spirit of the game" or "taking out Us out of the fun zone".

I have played various games where ramming is intended, by ships designed to board or whatever using this tactic and I never felt like it was cheating or unrealistic. It just was what it was.

I think the consensus is that ramming is just not a very efficent tactic, and that it just won't, or shouldn't, come up that much. I also agree with a poster above that there was going to be a rule about overlapping bases, because there pretty much had to be, and the current rule is as good as any.

With that said, though, it is kinda fun to think about.....

I think that part of the heartburn that comes from having your ship rammed is 1) the automatic damage card, and 2) the fact that the rule doesn't account for ship sizes. (i.e. a small ship does the same damage when it rams a star destroyer as when the reverse is true?) Those are both a little frustrating in that there is no way to avoid or negate the auto damage card, and those corvettes ought to be bouncing off the VSD. Also, shields don't help? How about brace, redirect, or evade? Why is ramming damage treated differently than any other damage in the game?

So, with that said, my suggestion for a house rule for ramming:

If a ship ends it's movement where it would overlap another ship's base, it retreats to the next click on the movement guide as normal. The ship doing the ramming then does damage based upon it's size. A small base rolls two blue dice, a medium base rolls two red dice, and a large ship rolls two black dice. Critical hits are handled as normal. The ship that is being rammed may use any available defense tokens (brace, evade, redirect). The ship doing the ramming then TAKES damage based upon the size of the object with which it collided. The player controlling the rammed ship rolls two blue for a small, two red for a medium, and two black for a large ship. The ship doing the ramming may then attempt to reduce damage by using defense tokens (brace, evade, redirect, etc.).

Example: A corvette flies across the board at high speed and collides with a VSD. After placement of bases is resolved, the corvette rolls two red, producing one blank and one crit. The VSD reduces the shield which most corresponds to where the corvette collided, by one. The VSD player then rolls two black dice producing, two hits. The corvette uses brace to reduce damage by one, reduces one shield, and play continues.

Just an idea. Comments and suggestions welcome.

*Sigh*

Ok besides the mythical 7 ship ram tactic (has anyone, anyone seen anything close to this?) ramming by itself is not a smart strategy. There needs to be more to your game or your small ships are going to get chewed up. Also there seems to be a big thing the detractors are forgetting, the Raider comes out in just a couple of months. That ship will actually be better at Ramming than the CR90 by a long shot. Its dice are Short and Medium range meaning it wants to be close and it has more hull points.

So look at the long game from a realistic point of view. I doubt the game will become one big Ram fest.

I'm curious who in the forum is dreadball guy....

I am in no way saying this list is good, or effective. It is simply a trial. I don't like blindly dismissing concerns about rules just because I don't see them as viable. At some point I will play this list a few times and see how well this list, with a certain strategy, works. I'm also sure other people could optimize this list better, this is just off the top of my head.

Ramming Speed: 300 pts.

I think you're going to get far more work out of the HOLY HELL SO MANY BLUE DICE than ramming

but if you must ram, I do think engine techs are the way to do it (at least, I understand them the same way as you do, so pending an errata you can double ram )

Sorry, but referring to this mythical 7 corvette build..... Presumably the rest of the Imperial fleet doesn't just sit watching these 7 fly around into position........ I dont see how ramming is anything other than a theoretical problem rather than a real life game issue.

Plus if you face 7 corvettes it's stupidly obvious what your opponent is think and you'd act accordingly.

Also, and I know this may not be an issue for everyone... But this theoretical 7 CR-90 list, will cost around $200 to build.

Also, and I know this may not be an issue for everyone... But this theoretical 7 CR-90 list, will cost around $200 to build.

Next week that person will be on here complaining that they have 7 CR90's and need help to get their Ramming fleet to work right because his list sucks.

Just watch.

I'm only concocting a list because just out right dismissing people's opinions is not conducive to convincing them they're opinions are off. If I can show them practical examples, perhaps I can stop this from being a XWing "Bunker" issue. I just don't think ramming is as big a deal as people make it out to be. However, I have to be honest, I haven't played a game with the expressed strategy of ramming. If I'm suddenly 1 rounding decked out VSDs and not losing ships, it might just be as broken as they say. I just don't know, because I've never played that way.

One thing I do want to point out. In order to get the Overlapping ship rule changed, there needs to be overwhelming evidence that it is indeed over powered. Over powered means it is so advantageous, not building with expectation to ram means you are at such a disadvantage as to make it impossible to win. I highly doubt that will be the case.

I'm only concocting a list because just out right dismissing people's opinions is not conducive to convincing them they're opinions are off. If I can show them practical examples, perhaps I can stop this from being a XWing "Bunker" issue. I just don't think ramming is as big a deal as people make it out to be. However, I have to be honest, I haven't played a game with the expressed strategy of ramming. If I'm suddenly 1 rounding decked out VSDs and not losing ships, it might just be as broken as they say. I just don't know, because I've never played that way.

One thing I do want to point out. In order to get the Overlapping ship rule changed, there needs to be overwhelming evidence that it is indeed over powered. Over powered means it is so advantageous, not building with expectation to ram means you are at such a disadvantage as to make it impossible to win. I highly doubt that will be the case.

Technically, you would need some fire from the CR90s to kill a VSD in one turn. Would you think it was broken if the firepower of seven CR90s was concentrated to one turn kill a VSD?

Ok, it is almost impossible to ram with more than 3 ships against a single target, on a single turn. If you have 6 CR90s all lined up ready to ram, guess what? They have to move one at a time. Suddenly 1/2 the front of the Vic is covered by a CR90 after just the first ram. The second ram will make it impossible for another ship to maneuver from in front of the Vic to a side and the third will block the other side. If you somehow manage to form a perfect circle around a Vic then yes, you can manage about 6 rams before you run out of space and are instead just ramming your own ships.

But 7 CR90s vs 1 Vic are gonna win without a single ram. Thrown in 2 GSDs and suddenly being at point blank range from the Imps is looking like a god awful idea. 7 CR90s is 21 Dice from forward arcs alone, why would you focus on doing a single (admittedly though shields) point of damage when you can throw so many dice that their defense tokens will be exhausted (at best) or discarded completely and still die?

Plus with 7 CR90s you have 0 fighters and a Corrupter build with Rhymer and bombers is going to tear it to shreds from Long Range, before any rams are even possible.

Mwhahaha!! Only need to buy 4 more corvettes to make my ramming dreams a reality!

Mwhahaha!! Only need to buy 4 more corvettes to make my ramming dreams a reality!

Mwhahaha!! Only need to buy 4 more corvettes to make my ramming dreams a reality!

But what happens when you run into the 7 Raiders (this summer) that are better at ramming than the CR90? Then you will need to build a super list to counter that list.

9 corvettes, because +100 points when wave 2 hits Let the galactic demolition derby commence!

Edit: I think we have ourselves a new mission!