I am told that there will be more spots open for the Wednesday prelim than both rounds from last year. Which means a cut to 16 will be even more brutal. Sadly, I think all of these factors will end up preventing me from going.

Umm, last I checked, Armada is on Thur and Fri at Worlds. Netrunner is Sat and Sun.

Is this in response to me? If so, you've missed my point, though you are correct Armada doesn't overlap Netrunner. I should have said they aren't separating Armada from other games even though it is likely to use the same amount of space as X-Wing. Thursday/Friday is the better slot. None of the card game play has even the slightest thing to do with the fact that Armada and X-Wing could have been swapped.

I'm making the assumption they'll get the same space, but it is a fair assumption given Gen Con as a precedent.

I'm assumging that Armada is in no way getting as much space as X-wing.

It's because X-Wing is established with a large player base, so they know a lot of people will still come out in spite of the mid-week schedule. Armada is still fledgling, so they needed to make it as easy as possible for people to be there to boost the numbers as much as they could.

It makes perfect sense if you're trying to maximize overall attendance across all your tournaments.

I would not be surprised if the reason that X-Wing is on Wednesday was because no matter how inconvenient of a day they put it on, it will still sell out.

Imagine if they put Armada on Wednesday; it would be a wasteland.

I believe you are correct in that it was FFG's intention to put the most popular game early because a lot of people will still go. But the game has grown so much in the past year (most store champs and regionals increased up to double the participation), and in my case, quite a few folks from my area are gearing up to go to Worlds for the first time after I shared my experience from last year with them. Worlds was a highlight for me in my relatively short X-Wing experience at the time, and I met a ton of wonderful people around the world am still in touch with many of them. It made me even more addicted to the game and motivated me to help grow the X-Wing community back at home.

I want the "first timers" to have that same experience, but not everyone has the work flexibility or vacation days to do it. I can do it, but even I hesitate at taking Tue-Friday off (travel time takes most of a day from the West Coast), considering most people have only 2-3 weeks of vacation days per year. Even having it on Thursday/Friday will be a lot better than Wed/Thur, and there are some games that are small enough that it wouldn't impact as many people as a popular game like X-Wing. Actually, I think even if they had a Wed/Thur Prelim and Finals on Friday, it would be good enough for most people.

Hopefully people who want to go but can't because of the schedule or the very limited spots available can email FFG so they either add more spots and/or move the event later in the week.

So no, it's not ideal, but I don't think your picture is really complete.

First, the difference between taking off Wednesday through Friday and taking off Tuesday through Friday is... one more day. I understand that a week's worth of vacation is a lot for most people (it is for me, too) but that one extra day is a much smaller proportion.

Second, they started out with a lot of constraints. They have a number of very successful games and they want to support all of them. They have lots of space but it's still limited in comparison to the number of prospective attendees, and it seems as if they have lots of staff until you consider they'll be distributed them over multiple simultaneous events for hundreds of players.

The only direction they can expand is in time. That means something has to be scheduled for that Wednesday time slot, and (as WickedGrey said) if they tried to do it with Armada or Imperial Assault, that event would be attended mostly by crickets and tumbleweeds.

***

I'm not saying it's ideal. I'm already looking nervously at my paid leave balance and wondering if I can afford to attend both Worlds and GenCon. That one extra day I talked about might prevent me from going, and that would be really frustrating. Friday prelims and Saturday elimination rounds would be best for me, not Wednesday and Thursday.

But they can't plan the entire event around my personal needs--and, more specifically, they can't plan the event around my needs instead of (e.g.) the needs of Netrunner players.

Don't get me wrong, Vorpal, i think we're in agreement that:

1) they had constraints

2) they need to promote all their games in a fair way

3) they should not change their schedule for our personal desires compared with other games' players

What I'm saying is, as probably the most profitable and one of the most popular games for them, as a business decision, they should put some weight on that. Yes, IA and Armada will be wastelands if they moved it to Wed and that as a business, they should put that within somewhat easy reach of new players. But games that have been out for a while and aren't as popular (SW card game), should they have the Thur/Fri slot instead of X-Wing? If there are more people that FFG affects by having X-Wing on Wed compared to having SWCG on Wed, shouldn't they try to affect fewer people, especially if X-Wing is the much more popular AND profitable game?

That's the way I see it and hope that FFG would reconsider, not for just my personal desires.

Except, I think they would have to move more than one game to have the same amount of space for X-wing. You would have to move AGOT: Joust and Armada in addition to SWLCG.

Was there even a Nationals announcement? It's also looking like there won't be Summer Tournament kits this year.

On Facebook they said that summer information will be out soon. The summer season starts in July.

They had the decision to either rent out a convention center or stay at their place. They choose the latter and this is the result. If they rented out a convention center I'm sure the cost of entry would've increased and then people would be complaining about that instead.

Except, I think they would have to move more than one game to have the same amount of space for X-wing. You would have to move AGOT: Joust and Armada in addition to SWLCG.

Stop asserting as fact things which you do not know. You do not know the space requirements of any of the games you mentioned, and therefore do not know what would need to be moved about.

The best data point we have is the only prior event where both Armada and X-Wing are present - Gen Con. And that precedent implies Armada and X-Wing will get allocated pretty close to the same physical space.

Aside from that, they have 5 days of space and a set number of games to play. Let's stop pretending that the only possible viable configuration has X-Wing on Wednesday.

I would not be surprised if the reason that X-Wing is on Wednesday was because no matter how inconvenient of a day they put it on, it will still sell out.Imagine if they put Armada on Wednesday; it would be a wasteland.

I believe you are correct in that it was FFG's intention to put the most popular game early because a lot of people will still go. But the game has grown so much in the past year (most store champs and regionals increased up to double the participation), and in my case, quite a few folks from my area are gearing up to go to Worlds for the first time after I shared my experience from last year with them. Worlds was a highlight for me in my relatively short X-Wing experience at the time, and I met a ton of wonderful people around the world am still in touch with many of them. It made me even more addicted to the game and motivated me to help grow the X-Wing community back at home. I want the "first timers" to have that same experience, but not everyone has the work flexibility or vacation days to do it. I can do it, but even I hesitate at taking Tue-Friday off (travel time takes most of a day from the West Coast), considering most people have only 2-3 weeks of vacation days per year. Even having it on Thursday/Friday will be a lot better than Wed/Thur, and there are some games that are small enough that it wouldn't impact as many people as a popular game like X-Wing. Actually, I think even if they had a Wed/Thur Prelim and Finals on Friday, it would be good enough for most people. Hopefully people who want to go but can't because of the schedule or the very limited spots available can email FFG so they either add more spots and/or move the event later in the week.

So no, it's not ideal, but I don't think your picture is really complete. First, the difference between taking off Wednesday through Friday and taking off Tuesday through Friday is... one more day. I understand that a week's worth of vacation is a lot for most people (it is for me, too) but that one extra day is a much smaller proportion. Second, they started out with a lot of constraints. They have a number of very successful games and they want to support all of them. They have lots of space but it's still limited in comparison to the number of prospective attendees, and it seems as if they have lots of staff until you consider they'll be distributed them over multiple simultaneous events for hundreds of players. The only direction they can expand is in time. That means something has to be scheduled for that Wednesday time slot, and (as WickedGrey said) if they tried to do it with Armada or Imperial Assault, that event would be attended mostly by crickets and tumbleweeds. *** I'm not saying it's ideal. I'm already looking nervously at my paid leave balance and wondering if I can afford to attend both Worlds and GenCon. That one extra day I talked about might prevent me from going, and that would be really frustrating. Friday prelims and Saturday elimination rounds would be best for me, not Wednesday and Thursday. But they can't plan the entire event around my personal needs--and, more specifically, they can't plan the event around my needs instead of (e.g.) the needs of Netrunner players.

Aside from that, expanding into Wed is not the only option for expanding the time. They could also split games over different weekends. This would inconvenience some players who want to compete in multiple events, but it would also allow all of there tournaments to be much larger. I would guess on pure speculation (but I think it is reasonable), that inconveniencing the small number of cross-game players would be out weighed by the benefits of NOT inconveniencing a sizable portion of X-Wing players, allowing more entrants and a bigger final, and perhaps even allowing some other cross game players to participate in multiple events events that currently overlap. I mean let's just say that they could make X-Wing a 300 or 400 player event on another weekend. That's 100-200 happy customers right there, which is already far ahead of how many upset cross game players you'd inconvenience (ignoring that some other cross game players now benefit as well.)

Finally, I agree it is not reasonable to for X-Wingers to always have the events planned to their needs at the expense of others. However, it is reasonable to want to not get the worst slot at all of the largest events, which is what happened this year between Gen Con and Worlds. Meanwhile, right now Android/Armada/etc players are always getting their needs met instead of X-Wing, and that isn't right either.

Yeah I understand the reasoning behind FFG's schedule but it is bogus that we X-Wingers get shafted for both big events.

If there are more people that FFG affects by having X-Wing on Wed compared to having SWCG on Wed, shouldn't they try to affect fewer people, especially if X-Wing is the much more popular AND profitable game?

That all depends on. Could they move X-Wing closer to the weekend and not displace a bunch of other stuff? Or would moving X-Wing mean that they have to rearrange 3 or 4 other games...

The fact that it's so popular, and has a limit on how many people can take place is going to mean they could have it on most any day and still fill the event. Those 3 or 4 other games may have no one show up for them if they were on Wednesday.

Plus that, with a limit on how many people can get in, it's not like everyone who wants to go will in fact get in at all. People are kinda acting like getting into Worlds was a given, but this year that's not really true.

If there are more people that FFG affects by having X-Wing on Wed compared to having SWCG on Wed, shouldn't they try to affect fewer people, especially if X-Wing is the much more popular AND profitable game?

That all depends on. Could they move X-Wing closer to the weekend and not displace a bunch of other stuff? Or would moving X-Wing mean that they have to rearrange 3 or 4 other games...

Remember that it had to be "arranged" in the first place. It isn't like the schedule just spawned out of the ether. They could have arranged it differently in the first place. They started with a blank slate and came up with this schedule. They weren't handed this schedule and then left with a decision to rearrange it or not.

I don't see how Thursday is the worst slot for Gencon. Gencon is a four day event of lots of things. Thursday is just as valuable as Fri or Sat. Sure, it may suck for your schedule, but your schedule isn't the deciding factor for FFG.

They started with a blank slate and came up with this schedule.

True, and I realized I forgot my larger point...

They no doubt tried a number of different arrangements before they came up with the one they have. As you said, it's not like they were handed this one.

So i'll trust the people who were actually involved in making this decision who have all the facts and data to have made the best decision they could.

I don't see how Thursday is the worst slot for Gencon. Gencon is a four day event of lots of things. Thursday is just as valuable as Fri or Sat. Sure, it may suck for your schedule, but your schedule isn't the deciding factor for FFG.

1) Forget getting any limited new releases.

2) Good luck if you need to go through Will Call.

3) If you have a standard M-F work schedule like most people, you get to take another vacation day off.

Reasons why Friday is worse than Thursday:

1) ?

Reasons why Saturday is worse than Friday:

1) Finals go into Sunday.

That is how.

They started with a blank slate and came up with this schedule.

True, and I realized I forgot my larger point...They no doubt tried a number of different arrangements before they came up with the one they have. As you said, it's not like they were handed this one.So i'll trust the people who were actually involved in making this decision who have all the facts and data to have made the best decision they could.

I think the most disappointing thing for me is that the Top 16 will be held on a weekday. I know last year that there was a lot of interest in the Twitch feed of the elimination rounds. I had hoped they would still be on a Saturday this year in order for folks to be able to watch at home.

I think the most disappointing thing for me is that the Top 16 will be held on a weekday. I know last year that there was a lot of interest in the Twitch feed of the elimination rounds. I had hoped they would still be on a Saturday this year in order for folks to be able to watch at home.

Plus the whole thing of why only top 16? Someone made this point already but that's like 6% of the field if 256 play. Bumping it to 32 would only take up space for about an hour and a half would that really have been so hard to make arrangements for?

Plus the whole thing of why only top 16? Someone made this point already but that's like 6% of the field if 256 play. Bumping it to 32 would only take up space for about an hour and a half would that really have been so hard to make arrangements for?

The cut does seem a little shallow. Perhaps they are announcing it as 16 and will expand it later if they sell enough spots. I mean, until the event is actually occurring, they can always tweak the format. It's their show. =)

This whole "being crushed under the weight of its own popularity" thing kinda reminds me of why I stopped trying to go to PAX Prime a couple years back. If the demand keeps up, they might have to consider making Worlds be essentially an invitational. Unless they're going to continue keeping regional supply tight, just the winners there are going to fill the spots at Worlds up.

I think the most disappointing thing for me is that the Top 16 will be held on a weekday. I know last year that there was a lot of interest in the Twitch feed of the elimination rounds. I had hoped they would still be on a Saturday this year in order for folks to be able to watch at home.

Or even the Sunday to accommodate the whole world watching.

if its wednessday they will sell out of seats.. If its Saturday they will sell out of seats. you cant say that about any of the other miniature games. that's why they did it.

if its wednessday they will sell out of seats.. If its Saturday they will sell out of seats. you cant say that about any of the other miniature games. that's why they did it.

Of course. It is a business decision. One that I would argue is A) not the best of all possible options and B) probably a poor long term plan if it continues on this path.

Looks like X-Wing is moved to Wed prelims, top 16 Thursday. Feels like with this and GenCon, X-Wing is losing favor with FFG.

How do you figure that?

To be fair the time and space and prime days devoted to Armada does make you feel like the X-wing is the new red-headed step-child (despite being their current biggest cash cow).

Yeah, why does Armada or conquest or imperial assault get the weekend days and X-Wing gets moved to the first day ?

Because Wednesday is likely to have the least amount of side events. Thus, they are able to fit in more people. If you have to fit in 2 other championships, you lose tables. X-wing will take the largest amount of space. You can easily fit more card games or even Imperial Assault games in an area compared to X-wing. So, because you can get more value out of space, those games are going to be grouped up.

Don't expect Armada to have a very large tournament.

I guess they don't realize they are in the middle of nowhere and people will be less willing to take off work for an extra 3 days.

I think the most disappointing thing for me is that the Top 16 will be held on a weekday. I know last year that there was a lot of interest in the Twitch feed of the elimination rounds. I had hoped they would still be on a Saturday this year in order for folks to be able to watch at home.

Plus the whole thing of why only top 16? Someone made this point already but that's like 6% of the field if 256 play. Bumping it to 32 would only take up space for about an hour and a half would that really have been so hard to make arrangements for?

Forget Top 32, if I were designing the schedule I would do a cut to Top 44, with the Top 16 from Swiss (6-1's and 7-0's) getting a 1st round bye in the elimination rounds, and the Top 2 from Swiss (the two 7-0's) getting a 1st and 2nd round bye in elimination.

Swiss rounds: 256 players, 7 rounds.

Excluding byes:

2 7-0

14 6-1

42 5-2

70 4-3

70 3-4

42 2-5

14 1-6

2 0-7

Cut is to Top 44, so 28 of the 42 5-2 players get in. With byes you could have a couple more 6-1 or better, eating into the 5-2 cut.

6 rounds of elimination.

Round 1 elimination: 14 games, 16 byes. 30 players after round 1.

Round 2 elimination: 14 games, 2 byes. 16 players after round 2.

Round 3 elimination: Top 16

Round 4 elimination: Top 8

Round 5 elimination: Top 4

Round 6 elimination: Finals