(137) VSD II

Tarkin

Weapons Liason

Flight Controllers

Expanded Hanger Bay

(99) VSD II

Weapons Liason

Flight Controllers

Expanded Hanger Bay

(64) 8 x Tie Fighters

The basic goal here is to hang back in the first few turns building up tokens while the opponent moves to you. Once they are close enough squadron orders will have the ties move out to attack incoming fighters with increased firepower adding an additional 8 blue dice to squadron attacks. Any capitol ships will either have to swing wide to attack the side giving me time to turn to meet them or come straight down the front opening them up to a double volley from the SDs front arcs. The gal of this list is to leave squadron completely up to the fighters while letting the SDs mop up the capitol ships with combined attacks. If the rebels are short on fighters, then the ties can add their power to attacking the capitol ships. I haven't been able to try this yet but I'm really looking forward to it. What do you think?

I don't like your battle plan idea to give up initiative and hang back, especially with no initiative bid. I don't know what your objectives are, but that doesn't matter. Even if all your objectives will be adventageous for you the other player will simply force you to choose from his set. What if all his objectives favor mobility? You will have to choose his assault objective. Most of the time it won't be Advanced Gunnery.

Cut the liaisons, they're not essencial. Also, you have both Tarkin AND hangars, but only 8 TIEs. Your Squadron capacity is bigger than your attack wing. Maybe use your points spent on hangars to upgrade one TIE into Howlrunner?

For objectives I suggest you to pick Minefields, Advanced Gunnery and either Fire Lines or Contested Outpost.

With 8 points left for initiative bid you will force your opponent to play on your terms.

Let me address some points you made... Firstly, in the tournaments that I have played in thus far and the ones they have been running at my local store, the objective cards have not been used, so this fleet is geared completely towards a tabling your opponent. This makes the sitting back strategy much more effective as your opponent must come to me since I won't be moving. The liaisons are important in that they give me the option to spend a token (which I will always have thanks to tarkin) in order to change my command to concentrate fire or squadron. Since the majority of my offensive capabilities are built to use those commands, I can then plan ahead for navigation or engineering knowing that I will have the ability to change it when the command is revealed if needed. This is something i have found very useful as I often find myself in positions where the command I want may be a turn too early or too late. The weapons liaison ensures that the command you need is there when the offensive opportunity is available.

As for howlrunner, there is not muh need for her when you have flight controllers as they add a blue dice to every activated squadron and not just the ones within rang 1 of the fighter. You may noice that the flight controllers also synergize well with the weapons liaison which ensures that I have the suqadron command available when I need it thanks to tarkin.

Lastly, I don't understand your point about tarkin and the hangar bay. Tarkin doesnt affect my squadron value, he only supplies tokens to the fleet, WIth a hangar bay on each VSD that gives them a squadron value of 4 each which is exactly right since they have 4 ties each. As long as the ties stay close, as they should, I can use squadron commands to up their damage output allowing them to alpha strike any incoming fighters. Plus, since the VSDs are in close proximity, all 8 ties can swarm together providing a tight defensive net to protect from incoming fighters, of which there will probably be less than.

Aside, from the note about the objectives, I really don't see where you're coming from.

Tarkin can give Navigate tokens that when used with the dial give you +1 squadrons activated.

Objectives are integral to the game, y'all should try using them.

you are spending 10 points for two more squad value, and another 12 to give squardons only when a squadron command has been used an extra blue dice.

tarkins tokens can increase the squad size to 4 for each of your ships pretty much so if you had 10 ties it would make sense to take the expanded hangars. But you only have 8 so why spend ten points on it?

howlrunner will always be giving extra dice to your ties where as your controller command will only give up to 4 (with hangar) more blue dice and that takes your command every single time which is more expensive than the 12 points you are already spending on it rather than the 8 that gives you a tie fighter with scatter and brace. and then makes all other ties get an additonal dice as long as it is in range one.

As for the let them come. is it viable. yes, should you guys be using objectives. yes. is there still a chance at dying from a gladiator list or a rebel flanking list while you are basically standing still. likely

If you're not playing with Objectives, you're not playing the game.

So coming up with builds/strategies for a game without Objectives is sort of pointless. Because then you get games and builds like you've proposed, which is "I sit here on my side of the table and do nothing. Come at me, bro!"

Try playing the game as designed. Objectives are fun, and they fundamentally alter the balance of each and every game you play.

As I stated before, not my call on the objectives. Just the way my local store has been running the events.

As for the squadron debate, I definitely see what you're sayieng, but what I dont understand is how Tarkin can increase my squadron number. Yes he can give a token but where does it state that using the token with the command increase the squadron value? The text for the token just says it allows you to activate one squadron as above, but the above rule specifically states that you can only activate squadrons up to your squadron value. Was this addressed in the FAQ because I cant find it int he rules or reference.

It's in the rules. You can combine a command dial and a token as a single squadron activation command, allowing you to activate your squadron value plus one, so four ties. With Tarkin and hangars, you could activate five squadrons a turn. This is explained in the command rules.

It's the same as using an engineering command along with a token to generate six repair points.

I see what you're saying but I disagree. The engineering command is worded much differently specifically allowing you to gain points that you can then spend on effects. The navigagte command is similar allowing you to combine the effects of the dial with the token. Squadron however is worded very differently. The dial says:

"activate a number of friendly squadrons up to the ships squadron value that are at close to medium range..."

the text for the token says:

"activate one squadron as described above",

which to my mind translates to:

"activate ONE friendly squadron up to the ships squadron value that is at close to medium range..."

I don't see any reason why the token text "as described above" should indicate the second part of the dial text allowing the squadron to move and shoot and not the first requiring the number of squadrons activated to not exceed the ships squadron value. And if, as I believe, both sentences still affect the use of a token, that would mean that even when using a token, you can only activate a number of squadrons up the the squadron value listed for the ship.

Other than your interpretation of the rule, is there anywhere where it specifically states that the use of a token allows you to exceed your ships squadron value in a similar way to how the rule reference specifically describes the interaction of the navigate token and dial on pg4 of the rules reference?

From the RR under commands.

• A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command. For example, a ship can increase its speed twice by spending a M command dial and a M command token.

You can combine a Squadron Dial and a Squadron Token to activate a ships Squadron+1 number of squadrons.

I think the key word is "combine" and that allows you to activate "squadron value"+1

I have run a similar list to this with a decent bit of success.

The issue I see with yours might be that your gimmick is only using ties and throwing ties at them. While 8 Fighters with flight controllers might do a lot for gaining squadron superiority, those few blue dice here and there wont help a whole lot against ships. In that department you have no upgrades whatsoever. The only things that matter for being tabled are ships, remember that.

I suggest taking tie advanced or a combo of bombers and fighters. I like the advanced as escorts because once you've gained squadron superiority with them, the black die hits much more consistently vs ships.

As I stated before, not my call on the objectives. Just the way my local store has been running the events.

But my point is, if you're not playing with objectives you're not playing Armada.

What you're saying is "I'm not playing the actual game, my store uses house rules that carves out the most important element of play, and what do you think about my strategy of turtling with this build".

There's no feedback that can be given if you're not playing the game as designed. Your tables just deciding to not use objectives is the same as choosing to not allow fighters, or not allow named squadrons, or to disallow all black dice. You're sort of playing the game but not really.

So my feedback on your fleet list is: Try playing the actual game. Once you actually play the game and come up with a fleet list for the game, then reliable feedback can be given. Otherwise you're playing a chopped version of the game where a reliable tactic is "Sit on your play edge in a turtle and don't move", and that's not a miniatures strategy game.

And my feedback to you is dont assume. Of course Ive played with objectives, but if my local events run without them then there is nothing I can do about it no matter how many people on the internet tell me I should change it. So should I sit at home and not play just to show them how wrong it is not to use objective?? of course not. I will play the ay that they want in their events and that's it.

As to your insinuation that advice can not be given because there are no objectives, that it blatantly false. If anything it's easier to give advice because you DO know the objective, which is to table the opponent. So if you are giving advice, give advice on how to use the list or better the list towards that goal, not advice for me to single handedly change the way my store does things or go home and pout. I get that you don't like that we play without objectives and that you don't even view it as playing the game and that's fine, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Might have trouble with a Gallant Haven and A-wings if the opponent fields those.

I have run a similar list to this with a decent bit of success.

The issue I see with yours might be that your gimmick is only using ties and throwing ties at them. While 8 Fighters with flight controllers might do a lot for gaining squadron superiority, those few blue dice here and there wont help a whole lot against ships. In that department you have no upgrades whatsoever. The only things that matter for being tabled are ships, remember that.

I suggest taking tie advanced or a combo of bombers and fighters. I like the advanced as escorts because once you've gained squadron superiority with them, the black die hits much more consistently vs ships.

This man has a point. I understand going heavy on the fighters for a good defense against opponent fighters, however leaving them as is to engage ships makes them ineffective. Coupling with advanced nets you the capability of still getting some hits off on ships that also keeps you tie fighters safer for longer.

Aren't you supposed to move at least 1?

I think you have something of a one trick pony of a strategy going on here, and one that won’t work against people who see it coming.

In a game where the only objective is “kill more stuff” you need a way to force people to engage you. Otherwise an opponent with a faster fleet can look at you and say “nope, not fighting that”, and run for the corners. This is a good way not to lose games, but not a good way to get anything other than a mediocre to decent finish (since people will fall for it at this early stage of the game, but you can’t really put the pressure on in a good matchup and get the big wins in). Basically the onus is on your opponent not to lose the game, rather than on you to win it.

I won the last tournament I was at with a fast build where my final round opponent castled his fleet. I came screaming in on the first turn, he moved to speed 0 in his, I went “oh god I see where this is going”, and the whole fleet peeled off. At this point he realized he is getting no points out of this game, threw the fighters forward, only to have them pounced on by my fighters (mine were in range to get squadron commands from the whole fleet, his were out of range after the first attack……the fight was one sided and quickly resolved.

If you want to use a double victory list I would suggest putting some bombers and/or advanced’s in there. These can chase faster ships down if the enemy tries to completely avoid you, and they help cover the rear/flanks of the victories against faster opponents. Basically they allow you to work around the victories weakness in a way that isn’t a one dimensional inflexible strategy.

Keeping with the two victories + squadrons build maybe something like the following would work for you:

Skreed

Victory II

Victory II

5 Fighters

4 bombers (including the major)

279

This leaves you with 21 points to play with, so you could upgrade to Tarkin and add the liaisons, or add various other things like flight controllers and hangers, or even just add more squadrons (could include up to 5 bombers with the major, or six without……that’s enough to one shot a CR90 from a long way away!)

. . . First off I fee the OP is being far to aggressive with his retorts.

Now that is out of the way. This list has no real hope of doing anything, it's not fun, it has no niche, you might as well just sit back and read a book with how fast this is going to play out.

Now, on to improvements. First, tell your tournament organizer that objectives are good and gives everyone something to do. (honestly without objectives I would just run Imperial trip GSD's or Rebel trip space whales).

Next, invest in a few fighter packs. Howlrunner is pretty much the Queen of TIE fighters and her best friends are TIE Interceptors. Their counter attack is still an attack so it will get a bonus from her AND swarm. Kind of amazing really.

With only having 8 TIEs you will have issues bogging down A-Wings, Tycho, or Interceptors. Those TIEs are going to go down fast so watch out.

This list has a weaknesses without objectives, other than the squadron side of things your ships are not going to survive long against GSD's or AFmkII's and even when you launch out of the gate your not going to be maneuverable enough to keep up.

. . . First off I fee the OP is being far to aggressive with his retorts.

As the OP, I both agree with this and apologize. I took harshly the comments about the inclusion objectives since it was really a situation I had no control over and as a result, reacted poorly. It's worth mentioning that I also deal with a lot of legalese in my work which sometimes makes my forum posts seem very direct and occasionally aggressive. I apologize.

As for the feedback, I have now had the opportunity to play around with the configurations and I quite agree that its not the best list. Ive been experimenting with the following:

[ EMPIRE FLEET (277 points)

1 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Admiral Screed - Assault Concussion Missiles (106)

2 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Assault Concussion Missiles (80)

3 • Major Rhymer TIE Bomber Squadron (16)

4 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

5 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

6 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

7 • TIE Advanced Squadron (12)

8 • TIE Advanced Squadron (12)

9 • TIE Advanced Squadron (12)

10 • TIE Advanced Squadron (12)

I still have 23 point to play around with but Im not quite sure what to add. Im also a little wary of the range restriction on the VSDs but the damage the put out with Screed and the ACMs is so good that Im not sure what to do. Maybe add engine techs for the added maneuverability?

Good to know you admit a failing. It is a very rare quality.

Well, VSD's don't have access to Engine techs but your GSD's do and work great with Wulf AND the 2 version has 2 anti squadron dice.

With the two Victory-I’s you probably want to add to your long range game (unless you feel the squadron potential is enough) since you already have excellent close range blasting power, but a slippery rebel list might prove a pain (enemy gladiators might be a serious issue if they manage to clear your front arcs as well).

To this end I would look at one or two of the following:

16 points – warlord + H9 turbo lasers. With screed you get fantastic reliability with this. At long range as long as you don’t roll all blanks you get guaranteed damage equal to the number of dice you roll (actually with two dice on the flanks even a double blank results in two damage), and on a good roll you can add in accuracies or have the damage exceed the dice rolled.

19 points – dominator + wulff. Wulff is pretty optional but he lets you hang on to a repair token to help rapidly regenerate shields that the dominator will be eating through.

If you dropped three of the advanced’s to regular fighters you could fit both in. Really its just down to personal preference though.

This list is 2 steps forward and 1 step back from where you started.

The fighter complement is a massive improvement on what you started out with. as it can really put the hurt on enemy ships. Have you considered upgrading one of the Advanceds to Darth Vader? He's lethal in the squadron battle and works nicely with Rhymer as his crits still count as hits so his battery armament is nearly as good as the bombers.

The Star Destroyers are a step back. Screed and Assault Concussion Missile Launcher do work nicely together, but how often do your VSD's get to use their black dice? I've not seen it happen to a player more than once as its a bit of a learning curve in the game. If this list wants to be a carrier list it needs Tarkin for the commander, Expanded Hangars on both VSD's and Flight Controllers on one. All of these can be squeezed into a 300 list which I would be fascinated to hear how its gets on.