Here would be my improvements to the list:

Glad II-> Glad 1

Demolisher

Assault Concussion -> Expanded Launchers

+Engine Techs

There's really no reason to take the Glad II if you're going down the Demolisher route. Save the points and get 4 Black Dice instead.

Engine techs is a must. It allows you to shoot once after your first move and again after you boost with Engine.

Expanded Launchers gives better synergy with Demolisher. Assault Concussion Missiles also takes away your precious crit damage;

I'd rather do crit damage than adjacent shields.

Tried a game against a Gallant Haven list today that was absolutely brutal. I played the same list that I played this weekend.

I honestly think Fel isn't that great. If he had better attack stats then maybe, but as is he's 7 points more expensive for added durability and an ability that in reality doesn't trigger as much as it seems like it does on paper. I'm also thinking about dropping Exp. Arm for more squadrons.

What was brutal about Galant Heaven? It only protects fighters at distance 1?

All the Aces have Black ship bombardment die. With a squadron command they can get to 0 Shield hull zones and drop some damage on your ship. I have played the gallant haven (Aces High) list and the Aces have very high damage output. They are very hard to kill, and very deadly in their own right. I foresee it being one of the more popular Rebel builds.

As for the Imperial list this thread is about. I have not had a chance to play it but have been looking at it and in the Dojo, Fel seems unneeded against Gallant heaven as they will mitigate him easily. I decided to drop the Enhanced Armaments and Fel as well. Dropping Fel let me drop the TIE Advanced. My squadrons shake out to 94pts with 3x Interceptors, 3x Fighters, Howlrunner, Vader. This leaves the list at 295pts (Can add XX-9s if I want) or can stay 5pts under to get the initiative. I plan on trying this out tonight, and maybe I can get my opponent to run the Aces High list.

I have been running 6 squads of tie interceptors with howlrunner. Ints are beasts with runner! Just add in a kitted Glad 2 and Diminator Vic and your good to go.

I have been running 6 squads of tie interceptors with howlrunner. Ints are beasts with runner! Just add in a kitted Glad 2 and Diminator Vic and your good to go.

Sound good. I just finished painting my TIEs so getting a third Imperial Squadron pack is low on my priorities. I've been wondering if the title ships are self sufficent enough to work. like would the 180pt Dominator build + the Demolisher build be good enough where both ships can hold their own and get far ahead in the piece trade. Basically a theory of self-sufficiency over synergy.

Fel is great as long as you can have his ability trigger reliably. That means always teaming him up with at least one Tie Advanced for the Escort. Otherwise, your opponent can just focus fire on Fel and watch him go down as quickly as Howlrunner does. You need to protect them. Even with Scatter, they only have 3 hull a piece.

As for Demolisher and Engine Techs ... Demolisher says you can use one of your attacks after maneuvering. It doesn't specify which one. And Engine Techs specifically say that you get a second follow up maneuver and calls it as such. Ergo, you can choose to use Demolisher after either the first or second maneuver.

As per the RRG: "If two or more of a player’s effects have the same timing, that player can resolve those effects in any order."

What you CAN'T do is use Demolisher to fire after each of the two maneuvers as Demolisher specifically states that it allows you to use ONE of your attacks.

Personally, I'm a fan of Engine Techs on all Glads, even without Demolisher. Glads have their sharpest turn at speed 1, which means that you can use Engine Techs, no matter the initial speed, to do a 90 degree turn. Which is gold.

EDIT: Oh, wait ... you can only use Engine Techs after using the Maneuver command. That's a bit more limiting.

I have been running 6 squads of tie interceptors with howlrunner. Ints are beasts with runner! Just add in a kitted Glad 2 and Diminator Vic and your good to go.

Sound good. I just finished painting my TIEs so getting a third Imperial Squadron pack is low on my priorities. I've been wondering if the title ships are self sufficent enough to work. like would the 180pt Dominator build + the Demolisher build be good enough where both ships can hold their own and get far ahead in the piece trade. Basically a theory of self-sufficiency over synergy.

The Glad 2 Demolisher with Techs and ACM is a monster often getting a 3rd turn kill. Dominator is on the fence with me but I like being able to have two blue on my six when running only 1 victory. I have been play testing it with swapping it out for hangers and controllers. At that point howl runner and the Ints become over kill lol... 21 shots between 4 ships plus 4 re rolls . With range 5 if they get attacked before you attack it's your own fault.

Fel is great as long as you can have his ability trigger reliably. That means always teaming him up with at least one Tie Advanced for the Escort. Otherwise, your opponent can just focus fire on Fel and watch him go down as quickly as Howlrunner does. You need to protect them. Even with Scatter, they only have 3 hull a piece.

As for Demolisher and Engine Techs ... Demolisher says you can use one of your attacks after maneuvering. It doesn't specify which one. And Engine Techs specifically say that you get a second follow up maneuver and calls it as such. Ergo, you can choose to use Demolisher after either the first or second maneuver.

As per the RRG: "If two or more of a player’s effects have the same timing, that player can resolve those effects in any order."

What you CAN'T do is use Demolisher to fire after each of the two maneuvers as Demolisher specifically states that it allows you to use ONE of your attacks.

Personally, I'm a fan of Engine Techs on all Glads, even without Demolisher. Glads have their sharpest turn at speed 1, which means that you can use Engine Techs, no matter the initial speed, to do a 90 degree turn. Which is gold.

They will have 5 Squadrons, some can activate twice. So haveing 8+ squadrons with swarm may over power them especially with flight controls and howlrunner giving you 5+ dice per attack, even a brace should cause 2-3 damage and you can chowder through the aces. The list i posted above was 4pts short and had vader...I can drop vader have 26pts and add 3 more stands of TIEs for 11 stands. Now I outnumber my enemies squadrons 2 to 1.

Fixed cuz reading is hard

gallant haven doesn't do diddly against mauler or fel. It only cancels damage from attacks (including counter)

it is, however, a hilariously incredible title

^ as Fickle said. Mauler's and Fel's abilities are not considered attacks, so Gallant Haven won't block it.

Mind you, Gallant Haven's ability is really very strong and it recommended on a squadron heavy build with the goldfish. Unless your opponent is not an idiot and finds way of baiting those squadrons away from their protective bubble. For example, Major Rhymer and friends.

gallant haven doesn't do diddly against mauler or fel. It only cancels damage from attacks (including counter)

it is, however, a hilariously incredible title

^ as Fickle said. Mauler's and Fel's abilities are not considered attacks, so Gallant Haven won't block it.

Mind you, Gallant Haven's ability is really very strong and it recommended on a squadron heavy build with the goldfish. Unless your opponent is not an idiot and finds way of baiting those squadrons away from their protective bubble. For example, Major Rhymer and friends.

Whelp I should learn to read.....

major rhymer and chiri will effectively counter-act the haven

everything else though...well, let's just say 6 x-wings with haven reliably outfought flight controller + howlrunnered interceptors (until they had to move )

it's just an amazing bit of 8 points that turns your fattie and squadrons into a flotilla and lets you control an unprecedented amount of table space; basically the rebel's most potent area denial piece until the shrimp frigates and possibly even beyond that

It's really easy to just attack the advanced and not Fel. We tried all different formations and there's always ways to engage the advanced.

Gallant Haven with aces is dumb since you have to do 3 damage against aces to do 1 damage after brace and the title.

its really good. I am going to try Vader. figure if he can land an accuracy or 2, it should get some damage in. If he causes them to burn defense tokens they won't have them vs all the other TIEs. Its a simple apply more guns strategy but that's what TIEs do.

adding more guns doesn't work terribly well when gallant triggers off every attack

the counter, as pointed out previously, is to force squadrons away from it. Distance 1 is not a terribly large area, and the AFmk2 (while impressive) is not a close combat ship. As long as the squadrons are nestled in the haven, they're pretty safe and the haven's similarly safe from normal bombers. But then there's the trade off in that those squadrons won't acomplish much while they're within the haven.

From my games, the ideal scenario for haven has been that it and the rest of the fleet encounter an enemy with inferior long range firepower and force it to close. Once they do, slower squadrons like the X-wing remain safe until they can be launched out with a squadron command at the nearest target.

Things like Rhymer throw a wrench in this plan because they don't care about the Afmk2's anti-squadron battery (especially not the B) and they can hit from further away than the haven's school of squadrons can engage. Engaging enemy squadrons with some suicidal ties and then forcing away the fattie with something terrifying (most Victories at close range, definitely the Demolisher) will leave the squadrons out to dry.

I would not recommend engaging the gallant haven squadrons directly (had a game where they beat out FC + howler interceptors while in the bubble). Think of it this way: they have the high ground.

Im going to try using Dominator in a rematch tomorrow entirely for killing the AF.

Also, to give you an idea how stupidly good this build is, that was his third game with a Gallant Haven list. I barely won and it took me around 10-15 games to perfect my list before winning an event and getting 2nd at the other.

Tried a game against a Gallant Haven list today that was absolutely brutal. I played the same list that I played this weekend.

I honestly think Fel isn't that great. If he had better attack stats then maybe, but as is he's 7 points more expensive for added durability and an ability that in reality doesn't trigger as much as it seems like it does on paper. I'm also thinking about dropping Exp. Arm for more squadrons.

Fel is fantastic with an Advanced escort. My last game he did well over his own points in damage and never took a hit through his "meat shield". Four dice (five with the flight controllers I was making heavy use of) plus a free plink against everyone shooting the Advanced TIEs around him added up real quick. Not a single opposing X-wing squadron survived between him and Darth Vaporizer.

I really think your mileage varies based on skill level of opponent. I'm not saying that everyone that is having success with Fel is playing bad people, but I think once you realize that you can position in a way to not get him and instead get the things you want, that his effectiveness drops.

I really think your mileage varies based on skill level of opponent. I'm not saying that everyone that is having success with Fel is playing bad people, but I think once you realize that you can position in a way to not get him and instead get the things you want, that his effectiveness drops.

That can happen, but I run him base to base with Advanced. If you engage either, you're getting him in the teeth. In fact I ran my entire fighter wing in base to base and once the fighter scrum started there was no going back.

seems like soonts is more an issue of preventing enemy movement by engaging them first rather than getting engaged by the enemy

I really think your mileage varies based on skill level of opponent. I'm not saying that everyone that is having success with Fel is playing bad people, but I think once you realize that you can position in a way to not get him and instead get the things you want, that his effectiveness drops.

That can happen, but I run him base to base with Advanced. If you engage either, you're getting him in the teeth. In fact I ran my entire fighter wing in base to base and once the fighter scrum started there was no going back.

Even if you are B2B, since you can pre measure it's quite easy to position so that you aren't engaging him.

seems like soonts is more an issue of preventing enemy movement by engaging them first rather than getting engaged by the enemy

Once you start getting the real hang of moving squadrons, the "I go all in, you're stuck" phenomenon happens a lot less, which goes back to player/opponent skill.

EDIT: ESPECIALLY if they're playing Gallant Haven. You go all in on that thing I don't care if your list is a zillion TIE/Ins with Flight Controllers you still lose that fight.

I really think your mileage varies based on skill level of opponent. I'm not saying that everyone that is having success with Fel is playing bad people, but I think once you realize that you can position in a way to not get him and instead get the things you want, that his effectiveness drops.

That can happen, but I run him base to base with Advanced. If you engage either, you're getting him in the teeth. In fact I ran my entire fighter wing in base to base and once the fighter scrum started there was no going back.

Even if you are B2B, since you can pre measure it's quite easy to position so that you aren't engaging him.

seems like soonts is more an issue of preventing enemy movement by engaging them first rather than getting engaged by the enemy

Once you start getting the real hang of moving squadrons, the "I go all in, you're stuck" phenomenon happens a lot less, which goes back to player/opponent skill.

EDIT: ESPECIALLY if they're playing Gallant Haven. You go all in on that thing I don't care if your list is a zillion TIE/Ins with Flight Controllers you still lose that fight.

And then a squadron command later he engages you.

I meant THEY (your opponent) can pre measure to not engage Fel