In case you were wondering:

The blue angle is 69.47688291° measured and not rounded like the others.

If you measure 1/8" in from the front like the CR90 then the front is 88.563°

I wasn't able to scan mine at a flush angle or fix the 0.6° it was off,

so I used yours to show what 90° would look like from the hole's center.

mine was off too, but then again there has been many tiles that have been off by a couple of minuets.

I wasn't able to scan mine at a flush angle or fix the 0.6° it was off,

so I used yours to show what 90° would look like from the hole's center.

mine was off too, but then again there has been many tiles that have been off by a couple of minuets.

[May 23rd]

Funny, I forgot about your blank GR-75 scan and was trying to fix the Q-ship one... This is a 90° arc.

And this is just me fooling around with MS paint.

You know how that is.

Black Market Transport

Scum only, GR-75 only

2 point +2 energy

• Gain 2 <illicit> upgrade slots. You may use any <illicit> upgrade card once per turn even if you have already used a copy of the same upgrade on the same turn.

Nothing much here but just more goodies. How about 3 hot shot blasters? or a hot shot blaster and 2 Feedback arrays. How about loaded with 3 dead mans switches to become a giant bomb doing 3 damage to everything within range 1 when it explodes?

• "Gain 2 <illicit> upgrade slots. You may use all three <illicit> upgrades each turn, even if they are the same.

Black Market Transport

Scum only, GR-75 only

2 point +2 energy

• Gain 2 <illicit> upgrade slots. You may use any <illicit> upgrade card once per turn even if you have already used a copy of the same upgrade on the same turn.

Nothing much here but just more goodies. How about 3 hot shot blasters? or a hot shot blaster and 2 Feedback arrays. How about loaded with 3 dead mans switches to become a giant bomb doing 3 damage to everything within range 1 when it explodes?

I understand your intent because you explained it afterward, but I find the wording of the card a bit confusing .

• "Gain 2 <illicit> upgrade slots. You may use all three <illicit> upgrades each turn, even if they are the same.

Okay, that sounds better. That is the thing about game design is the language of which rules are written.

Speaking of which do you think you can do title cards for the black market, "the Bloody Credit" and the armed Q-ship? I tried looking for pictures of slaved wookies or twileks as art for the "bloody credit". I couldn't find any.

Speaking of which do you think you can do title cards for the black market, "the Bloody Credit" and the armed Q-ship? I tried looking for pictures of slaved wookies or twileks as art for the "bloody credit". I couldn't find any.

The very first episode of Star Wars Rebels has Wookiee slaves.

So something like this maybe?

The very first episode of Star Wars Rebels has Wookiee slaves.

If we can put a ship behind that it would be perfect for "the Bloody Credit"

If we can put a ship behind that it would be perfect for "the Bloody Credit"

Any editing that big would be trick to not make so obvious.

You beat me to it

Well I didn't have the background anyways and I like what you put in the text so that is cool.

okay so I had to shrink it down and rounded the corners. Couldn't find a way to shrink the text so it would be legible. (that is the problem when you use Paint to alter images.)

You beat me to it

Well I didn't have the background anyways and I like what you put in the text so that is cool.

okay so I had to shrink it down and rounded the corners. Couldn't find a way to shrink the text so it would be legible. (that is the problem when you use Paint to alter images.)

You changed your mind about the cost.

I may do the text over as after rearranging it there is a word missing.

Plus it could be clearer that you're just freeing up a slot not adding one.

The fix for working with the text in MS Paint is to enlarge the image first.

And MS Paint is no good for shrinking it back, for that use Flickr.

Amazing work on this. Where is the most current update after all the changes? Is it the first comment?

Amazing work on this. Where is the most current update after all the changes? Is it the first comment?

After or around the time the Imperial Raider is released I'll probably start another thread containing a "kit" on this site and Team Covenant, and maybe Board game geek. As of now I am posting changes to the original post as this work is in progress.

I want to get a few games in to test these proposals before I post it up as a kit first. This kit will be a simple kit containing the Pilot card the title upgrades and the S&V version of the GR-75 ship tiles that you can print sort of an overlay of or make your own card. Although I may have to add a disclaimer on the cards that these are not officially endorsed.

You beat me to it

Well I didn't have the background anyways and I like what you put in the text so that is cool.

okay so I had to shrink it down and rounded the corners. Couldn't find a way to shrink the text so it would be legible. (that is the problem when you use Paint to alter images.)

You changed your mind about the cost.

I may do the text over as after rearranging it there is a word missing.

Plus it could be clearer that you're just freeing up a slot not adding one.

The fix for working with the text in MS Paint is to enlarge the image first.

And MS Paint is no good for shrinking it back, for that use Flickr.

Thanks that is good, sorry I haven't gotten around to posting it on the first page. Good question on the point cost, well to be honest I am really just pulling these costs out of thin air. As for the bloody credit it allows the S&V to do something no other faction can do and that is pull an upgrade card from out of faction as well as add 1 to energy capacity. Still 1 upgrade advantage isn't all that much. So how much do you think the Bloody credit should be and also how much should the black market transport be? I am open to suggestions.

[

why did you bastardize the card?

Look at the others I thought I might have read the wrong cost.

But looking at Quantum Storm I think you may be right about a higher cost.

[

Ummm, what is this?

why did you bastardize the card?

Look at the others I thought I might have read the wrong cost.

But looking at Quantum Storm I think you may be right about a higher cost.

Sorry about that, as I said the first card I tried to shrink the text and it ended up poorly. Give me an hour to fix it.

Okay got the better text instead of the franken-paste card. As I said at first when I tried to shrink the text I ended up with a mess of black blocks that were illegible to read. I removed the "bastard" and put the better one up. I hope you like it now.

Strange Eons doesn't seem to do Epic actions, so no cards from me (unless they had empty action bars). However, I can certainly offer some rules text.

Someone mentioned a few pages back that the Tatooine Gallofree Transport is a GR-45 rather than a GR-75, although that the difference is pretty minor. Redesignating the transport as a GR-45 Medium Transport gets us around having to write "Scum Only, GR-75 only" quite neatly. "GR-45 only" prevents the use of Quantum Storm, Dutyfree and Bright Hope.

As for rules text:

The illicit slot is an interesting proposition, although with the exception of Glitterstim the effects are somewhat underwhelming. Feedback Array is practically useless, Hot Shot Blaster is questionable (although a bit better on a ship with no guns), Dead Man's Switch could be interesting. Inertial Dampeners isn't really worth it on an unarmed, unblockable ship. I'd recommend giving it three illicit slots. That'd let it make some proper use out of Hot Shot Blasters (especially with a title with an Extra Munitions style effect), from Feedback Array and from Dead Man's Switch. You could also play into this with some bomb slots, although you'd need some Huge ship bomb dropping rules (probably out of front and back with Andrasta's freedom of templates).

Arming it, I'd actually recommend the turret upgrades. The limited range and use of small ship weaponary really gives it a jury rigged Scum modification with hidden weapons in the hull. Blaster Turret's unuseable but Ion (particularly Ion), Autoblaster and Twin Laser all could be interesting. With only one card might need new slots designed though, Fore Turret and Aft Turret, otherwise the turrets could shoot from either section. The cost for the 360 arc is incorporated into the turret. This also gives us a/the ship card ability (After you perform an attack you may spend one energy to perform an attack with a secondary weapon upgrade you have not used this round) and a title to increase the range of equipped turret upgrades.

Arming it, I'd actually recommend the turret upgrades. The limited range and use of small ship weaponary really gives it a jury rigged Scum modification with hidden weapons in the hull. Blaster Turret's unuseable but Ion (particularly Ion), Autoblaster and Twin Laser all could be interesting. With only one card might need new slots designed though, Fore Turret and Aft Turret, otherwise the turrets could shoot from either section. The cost for the 360 arc is incorporated into the turret. This also gives us a/the ship card ability (After you perform an attack you may spend one energy to perform an attack with a secondary weapon upgrade you have not used this round) and a title to increase the range of equipped turret upgrades.

Armed Q-Ship (Click HERE for the Scum GR-75 base with the forward firing arc)

Scum only, GR-75 only

10 points +0 energy

• Your upgrade bar loses 1 <crew> and 1 <cargo> slot and gains a <hardpoint> slot. Your fore section gains a front facing 90 degree firing arc.

• Kessel Raiders

Scum only, GR-75 only

5 points +2 energy

• Your upgrade bar gains 1 turret and 1 canon upgrade. Both require 1 energy to use, in place of any other requirements. These upgrades replace 2 cargo slots.

How about something in between these two?

Kessel Raider Q-ship.

Scum only, GR-75 only

7 points +2 energy

• Your upgrade bar gains 1 turret and 1 hardpoint upgrade. Turrets require 1 energy to use, in place of any other requirements. These upgrades replace 1 cargo and 1 crew slot.

Strange Eons doesn't seem to do Epic actions, so no cards from me (unless they had empty action bars). However, I can certainly offer some rules text.

Someone mentioned a few pages back that the Tatooine Gallofree Transport is a GR-45 rather than a GR-75, although that the difference is pretty minor. Redesignating the transport as a GR-45 Medium Transport gets us around having to write "Scum Only, GR-75 only" quite neatly. "GR-45 only" prevents the use of Quantum Storm, Dutyfree and Bright Hope.

As for rules text:

The illicit slot is an interesting proposition, although with the exception of Glitterstim the effects are somewhat underwhelming. Feedback Array is practically useless, Hot Shot Blaster is questionable (although a bit better on a ship with no guns), Dead Man's Switch could be interesting. Inertial Dampeners isn't really worth it on an unarmed, unblockable ship. I'd recommend giving it three illicit slots. That'd let it make some proper use out of Hot Shot Blasters (especially with a title with an Extra Munitions style effect), from Feedback Array and from Dead Man's Switch. You could also play into this with some bomb slots, although you'd need some Huge ship bomb dropping rules (probably out of front and back with Andrasta's freedom of templates).

Arming it, I'd actually recommend the turret upgrades. The limited range and use of small ship weaponary really gives it a jury rigged Scum modification with hidden weapons in the hull. Blaster Turret's unuseable but Ion (particularly Ion), Autoblaster and Twin Laser all could be interesting. With only one card might need new slots designed though, Fore Turret and Aft Turret, otherwise the turrets could shoot from either section. The cost for the 360 arc is incorporated into the turret. This also gives us a/the ship card ability (After you perform an attack you may spend one energy to perform an attack with a secondary weapon upgrade you have not used this round) and a title to increase the range of equipped turret upgrades.

Yup we know the brown transport that was a special edition edit in Episode 4 is supposed to be the 45 instead of the 75. But since they look almost exactly the same with just a different paint job we the brown one felt more scum like. However a GR-45 should have different stats but this is just a stop gap measure to use assets that players already have. So if they have a transport then they already have a card with all the stats. All they have to do is add a slot and put it in a S&V squadron.

The illicit slot seems like a natural choice and I have written the Black Market Transport title that adds 2 illicit slots (giving it 3 illicit slots) which should be fun. Giving it 3 deadmans switch, could make it a fire ship blowing up for 3 damage to everyone at range 1. The inertia dampeners are not really that useful unless it has a long range weapon to keep it back. As for glitterstim it is not out but if it was on a huge ship that can attack then it would be the only way a huge ship could make use of focus results because with the exception of single turbolaser turrets huge ship cannot do anything with focus results on dice.

We are thinking about a unique title that allows for turrets and as for the focus spending requirement being allowed to treat it like spending energy. Still the trick is how to throw in all these special rules on a single title upgrade. But a hard-point gives S&V the ability to fire at ranges as the other factions' epic ships.

Another question with turrets is that a new turret is coming out in Wave 7. To be honest we don't know what that turret does. So we are taking a look at it.

Arming it, I'd actually recommend the turret upgrades. The limited range and use of small ship weaponary really gives it a jury rigged Scum modification with hidden weapons in the hull. Blaster Turret's unuseable but Ion (particularly Ion), Autoblaster and Twin Laser all could be interesting. With only one card might need new slots designed though, Fore Turret and Aft Turret, otherwise the turrets could shoot from either section. The cost for the 360 arc is incorporated into the turret. This also gives us a/the ship card ability (After you perform an attack you may spend one energy to perform an attack with a secondary weapon upgrade you have not used this round) and a title to increase the range of equipped turret upgrades.

Armed Q-Ship (Click HERE for the Scum GR-75 base with the forward firing arc)

Scum only, GR-75 only

10 points +0 energy

• Your upgrade bar loses 1 <crew> and 1 <cargo> slot and gains a <hardpoint> slot. Your fore section gains a front facing 90 degree firing arc.

• Kessel Raiders

Scum only, GR-75 only

5 points +2 energy

• Your upgrade bar gains 1 turret and 1 canon upgrade. Both require 1 energy to use, in place of any other requirements. These upgrades replace 2 cargo slots.

How about something in between these two?

Kessel Raider Q-ship.

Scum only, GR-75 only

7 points +2 energy

• Your upgrade bar gains 1 turret and 1 hardpoint upgrade. Turrets require 1 energy to use, in place of any other requirements. These upgrades replace 1 cargo and 1 crew slot.

To be honest If I give a title the ability to take both turret and hardpoint then I am going to give it a 50 point cost upgrade essentially making it the most squadron point expensive card. So here me out first.

The GR-75 is a support ship. It has a point cost less than some of the large ships out there. Good because it gives you more squadron points for more small and large ships. The CR-90 and Raider are gunships huge ships with weapons thus they take 1/3 of your epic point allowance.

The Q-ship acts more like a sniper rifle if you give it a long range weapon or a battering ram if you give it quad laser cannons. Making it more of a support ship but not as cheap so making it cost around 50 seems like the most logical idea.

But once a ship gets both an attack that can be used as a primary and another attack that can be used in specific roles it is no longer a support ship but now more like a ship of the line. So instead of letting it cost around 50 points I think it needs to be up to 90 and 100 along with the CR-90 and Imperial Raider. Now it will still be cheaper than the CR-90 as just to give it a 50 point title plus autoblaster and single turbolaser will put it at 90 with 2 weapons while the CR-90 only has 1 at that point cost. Add the combat retrofit and it gains more hull and an extra shield for 10 points which makes it cost about the same as you would spend loading up a CR-90.

Still I think I need to playtest the Q-ships first before I start adding more goodies to the transport. To be honest I also need to test the transport without the firing arc.

I think a 50 point title card is way to high.
Average these two and round down and what do you get?


What is the extra really worth then?
This tells me an upgrade with a weapon should cost 12 at most,
and that's including the weapon.
At worst since it's only one card, I'd say half the cost of the CR90 fore section,
which is what... 25? but again, including that many hardpoints, and work down.
1 hardpoint 10,
2 hard points 20.
1 Turret with energy requirement...

Weapon Range Arc Dice Energy Other
Autoblaster 1 90° 3 0 Hits cannot be cancelled

Autoblaster Turret 1 360° 2 0 Hits cannot be cancelled
Ion Turret 1-2 360° 3 0 1 damage, 1 ion
Blaster Turret 1-2 360° 3 0 Spend Focus token
Quad Laser Cannon 1-2 90° 3 1 Try again for 1 energy
Ion Cannon 1-3 90° 3 0 1 damage, 1 ion

Flechette Cannon 1-3 90° 3 0 1 damage & 1 stress

"Mangler" Cannon 1-3 90° 3 0 1 Hit to Crit
Heavy Laser Cannon 2-3 90° 4 0 no critical hits

Ion Cannon Battery 2-4 90° 4 2 1 Crit, 1 ion
Single Turbolaser 3-5 90° 4 2 1 focus die becomes hit and
Single Turbolaser (P) 3-5 304° 4 0 defender doubles agility dice.

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Secondary_Weapons

...It just occured to me the primary on the CR90 doesn't have an energy requirement, can't forget to factor that in. So the CR90 Fore would have to be divided by three.

Got it...
This is what we are talking about
It has 5 energy and 1 hardpoint and cost only 40?

I like the Idea of a GR-75 scum ship, and it fits perfectly. It's cheap, readily available and a freighter. It's exactly where I expect a fair number of them would end up. here are 3 ideas I think might be interesting to explore, some of which have been touched on in this thread already.

1. A pirate ship sort of setup where you have side firing arcs. perhaps 2 weapon hardpoints that shoot out either side, similar to the hardpoints on the CR-90. I envision these hatches opening and concealed HLCs or quad laser firing out the sides. Call it the "bounty" or the "Fortune and Glory". feels piratey and scummy. I think some ion cannons would fit well with this setup as well, maybe the ones from the raider to stick on a hardpoint.

2. Option 2: Ordnance carrier. Bomber on steroids with a title card that allows linked fire of 2 missles or torpedoes at once, a weapons engineer option, and an ST-321 like ability, oh, and an ordnance discount while we are at it. If we wanted to build a model of it, maybe they bolt on the ordnance pods of a couple of tie bombers underneath. GR-75 ugly anyone?

3. Option 3: fighter carrier. feels a little less scummy than the other 2, but could maybe 3 or 4 fighters. how this would work and the applicable game mechanic have been discussed in some of the gozanti threads, but essentially you ourchase the fighters at a significant discount, but then spend energy to launch them, or, pay a fee for a hanger upgrade card that takes 2 or 3 cargo slots, but can generate a biyanre pilot or syck fighter for an enrgy cost once per round.

I will leave it to others to decide points values, balance issues, etc. I enjoy concepts, I dont like the details.

Great ideas here, I agree that this GR-75 should not be a support ship. Does not fit with the scum way of doing things.

I like the Idea of a GR-75 scum ship, and it fits perfectly. It's cheap, readily available and a freighter. It's exactly where I expect a fair number of them would end up. here are 3 ideas I think might be interesting to explore, some of which have been touched on in this thread already.

1) A pirate's attack ship and a Q-ship aren't exactly the same thing and I understand Marinealver is trying to make a scum version of the transport. But he's also trying to make a second combat vessel version, and I'm not sure that the distinction matters so much in this later case. I mean if you are going to arm it, then arm it. I'm not opposed to having a one hardpoint title that costs 10 points (as long as it ups energy allowance too), but just for adding another secondary weapon to jump to 50 points is too much. You're right the natural position of hidden weapons on a Q-ship would be the sides. I could make a base with some interesting side arcs that start at the blue line, 90 degrees each. I measured the Imperial Raider arcs and the front is roughly 101.5 degrees, the aft is 106 degrees...

2) Again Marinealver is trying to make a straight scum conversion of the transport, and althought he's arming one version, he's mentioned he's against going too far by using ordinance. I think that the Scum & Villainy way would be to not follow the mainstream hardpoint only upgrades. Obviously I don't disagree with using some non-hardpoint upgrades, but it's possible to go to far. I wouldn't want the GR-75 to be able to equip the Extra Munitions upgrade and become a Huge Bomber or Huge Minelayer versions.

• Your upgrade bar gains 1 missile upgrade and 3 ordnance tokens. Discard tokens before the upgrade card. Each attack costs one energy. This upgrades replaces 1 cargo upgrade slot.

3) I think it's a waste of time to talk about carriers until we know more about the Houndstooth escape ship mechanic.

I like the Idea of a GR-75 scum ship, and it fits perfectly. It's cheap, readily available and a freighter. It's exactly where I expect a fair number of them would end up. here are 3 ideas I think might be interesting to explore, some of which have been touched on in this thread already.

1) A pirate's attack ship and a Q-ship aren't exactly the same thing and I understand Marinealver is trying to make a scum version of the transport. But he's also trying to make a second combat vessel version, and I'm not sure that the distinction matters so much in this latter case. I mean if you are going to arm it, then arm it. I'm not opposed to having a one hardpoint title that costs 10 points (as long as it ups energy allowance too), but just for adding another secondary weapon to jump to 50 points is too much. You're right the natural position of hidden weapons on a Q-ship would be the sides. I could make a base with some interesting side arcs that start at the blue line, 90 degrees each. I measured the Imperial Raider arcs and the front is roughly 101.5 degrees, the aft is 106 degrees...

2) Again Marinealver is trying to make a straight scum conversion of the transport, and althought he's arming one version, he's mentioned he's against going too far by using ordinance. I think that the Scum & Villainy way would be to not follow the mainstream hardpoint only upgrades. Obviously I don't disagree with using some non-hardpoint upgrades, but it's possible to go to far. I wouldn't want the GR-75 to be able to equip the Extra Munitions upgrade and become a Huge Bomber or Huge Minelayer versions.

• Your upgrade bar gains 1 missile upgrade and 3 ordnance tokens. Discard tokens before the upgrade card. Each attack costs one energy. This upgrades replaces 1 cargo upgrade slot.

3) I think it's a waste of time to talk about carriers until we know more about the Houndstooth escape ship mechanic.

A little off on a tangent I will say that it is odd that Armada has no starfighter capacity on any of their ships. So it is curious how come we don't have a carrier mechanic in any of FFG's star wars licensed games.

But back on topic I think I need to play with one of the simpler versions of the armed GR-75 before we go for a full combat conversion. So the GR-75 with a q-ship title will have 4 energy + 2 from hardpoint 8 hull and 4 shields. Upgrade slots will be hardpoint crew cargo x2 and an illicit. Here are some builds I have thought of.

Battering ram

Q-ship, Quad laser cannons, expanded cargo hold, deadmans switch.

The design concept for this is to run this ship down the middle scattering any squadrons in its way. Might not be the strongest of huge ships but because the point cost only being 49 points that leaves more for your starfighters. Similar to the fire ship (Black market transport + 3 deadman switches) its deadman switch leaves quite an area of effect when it explodes. However you have a little more control over damage this ship does with the quad laser cannons so you don't have to wait until it dies. Add an Em-emitter and it makes a great ship to divide your opponents fleet and allows you to place all your starfighters on one side of the map so you can focus down half your opponent's fleet then move around to the other side.

Snipership

Q-ship, Single turbolaser, combat retrofit, backup shield generator, expanded cargo hold, inertial dampeners.

This ship is basically designed to stand back and fire at range 3-5 at the bigger ships. Only costing 64 you can bring 2 and still have a decent amount of small/large ships in your epic squadron. Inertial dampeners make sure you don't close in too fast.