So I am playing the second encounter of Archive or Arrizon in the Heirs of Blood campaign.

A question arose amongst the heros if a large monster could move into a space adjacent to a pit end his movement then expand to have half the figure base in the pit and half in open spaces and attack a Hero on the other side of the pit? The Heros stated because the monster was half in the pit that there is no way a monster could attack over a pit, it would be like jumping a pit and should not be a legal move.

Can a large monster expand into a pit and still attack a adjacent figure on the other side of a pit?

I found in the rules that a monster is not affected by a pit unless entering a pit space or if all the base of the monster is in the pit.

Also If a large monster expands after a move would it not be able to attack any adjacent space regardless of where the move ended?

Not only can a large monster expand over a pit, the section you quoted means a large monster can just walk across a pit with no issues at all. A 2x1 monster doesn't even bother thinking about pits unless it expands and both of its spaces are pit spaces. There is only one 2x2 pit in Nerekhall, and there are no 3x2 pits- so shadow dragons never are affected by pits.

Taken from pg. 18 of the Core Game Rulebook:

Pit spaces are defined by a green line surrounding them. If a figure enters a space containing a pit, that figure falls into the pit, suffers two damage, and ends its move action. A figure in a pit only has line of sight to adjacent figures, and only adjacent figures have line of sight to a figure in a pit. While in a pit, the only action the figure can perform is a special action to climb out of the pit. After performing one action to climb out of the pit, place the figure in the closest available empty adjacent space of the controlling player’s choice. Figures cannot jump over a pit space. Large monsters are only affected by pits if they end their movement and all spaces they occupy are pit spaces.

Pretty much sums it up. I've never seen a pit space in the game that was 4X4, so until they actually create a tile that is like that, those tiles will never effect anything Large or Huge.

You know, it would be kinda funny though is they added an action that allowed things to jump over pits, but they would have to test whether or not they succeeded in making it.

You know, it would be kinda funny though is they added an action that allowed things to jump over pits, but they would have to test whether or not they succeeded in making it.

This mechanic actually exists in Heroquest: Advanced.

You can try to introduce it to Descent 2nd with a house rule.

If I introduced it, It would go like this:

Adjacent spaces containing a pit cannot be jumped over. Only a normal space adjacent to a pit trap can be targeted for an attempt to jump to.

A figure must use 2 movement points to attempt a jump.

Test Awareness. (The eye) If it passes the figure makes the jump. If it fails, the figure is placed into the pit and follows normal rules regarding pit spaces.

Monsters cannot jump over pits. Lieutenants can though.

And Grisban will be all like: 1 awareness? You're gonna have to toss me!

You don't toss a dwarf!!!

In `Lord of the rings` they did.

Yeah but they kept is a secret from the Elf!

In `Lord of the rings` they did.

That's what I was referring to

I actually seem to remember D1E had a jump over pits options. I might have to look it up.

and to the OP monsters are unaffected by pits unless their entire base is in the pit.

I actually seem to remember D1E had a jump over pits options. I might have to look it up.

It did indeed Basically, it was 3MP per pit space crossed. So a 1-space pit cost 3MP, a 2-space pit cost 6MP, etc. You don't count the other side, just the size of the pit (the other side is basically wrapped in the jump cost).

The only downside of this rule is that most pits were 1 space wide, with a few 2 space ones. 1-space pits were trivial to jump over, and heroes almost never fell in, and even 2 space pits weren't too bad.

However, in D2E, with attributes, you could probably have the heroes test something (awareness probably), and if they fail, they land in the pit, with maybe some rules governing penalty to the roll for bigger pits, and where they land if they fail in a pit that's bigger than one space. Maybe add 1 shield to the results for each pit space beyond the first, and if they fail, put them proportionally along the pit based on how bad they failed (maybe 1 space per amount failed, with a max of "the pit space on the close side" representing jumping too late and slipping in.

I actually seem to remember D1E had a jump over pits options. I might have to look it up.

It did indeed Basically, it was 3MP per pit space crossed. So a 1-space pit cost 3MP, a 2-space pit cost 6MP, etc. You don't count the other side, just the size of the pit (the other side is basically wrapped in the jump cost).

The only downside of this rule is that most pits were 1 space wide, with a few 2 space ones. 1-space pits were trivial to jump over, and heroes almost never fell in, and even 2 space pits weren't too bad.

However, in D2E, with attributes, you could probably have the heroes test something (awareness probably), and if they fail, they land in the pit, with maybe some rules governing penalty to the roll for bigger pits, and where they land if they fail in a pit that's bigger than one space. Maybe add 1 shield to the results for each pit space beyond the first, and if they fail, put them proportionally along the pit based on how bad they failed (maybe 1 space per amount failed, with a max of "the pit space on the close side" representing jumping too late and slipping in.

Awareness for 1 space pit, Awareness + Strength for 2 space pit.

Yeah I was thinking of using the strength attribute too. Perhaps the best thing would be to have the player choose which one the hero tests. I still don't think they should be allowed to jump over pits that are two spaces wide, but if you wanted to implement it, I think you'd have to make it riskier. For each space you are trying to clear, you have to spend a movement point and test the attribute. So in a situation where a hero attempts to jump over a two space wide pit, he would need 3 MP, (two for the spaces he's jumping over and 1 for the space he would be entering.) Then for each space Test an attribute once.

As a crazy idea from my corner, why not play pits the way they are? If you have the proper ability (place within X spaces) you can already "jump" over one, and with other abilities you can move through them and take a little damage (a less successful jump.) With regular movement, the best you can do is fall in and then climb out on the other side, which prevents normal crossing of length 2 pits anyway.

Thanks for the insight. I like the idea of being able to jump a pit it sounds like a good idea.

The only thing I can think of causing a problem would be a Ettin throwing a hero into a pit. Would there hero be in the pit or could he test awareness to make a safe landing/miss pit?

I don't think you should allow jumping over pits. The maps in D1E were a lot bigger. Allowing heroes to jump over pits by using an ability test is a huge advantage to the heroes since monsters can't test abilities.

The maps were probably designed with the idea that heroes cannot jump over pits. And they just recently changed how pits worked in the FAQ. Again probably with the idea that heroes cannot jump over pits.

I personally hate house rules.

I'm not a big fan of house rules myself overall, but I admit, one D2E change I *don't* like is the lack of pit jumping. Falling into a pit and climbing back out just seems so... unrealistic, for the small pits which should be easily jumpable even by the average person.

That said, I do realize the quests and tiles were specifically made with non-jumping in mind. Most of the pits have ways to cross. But I really do not like 58B for precisely that reason - a pit which, unless you happen to have a hero or class that lets you teleport, requires you to take damage and end a move action (if that's what you had) and then spend an entire action to get out. For quests which have the bypass options, those are fine blocking spots, but for 58B, it is, in my opinion, poor design. I probably would never use that tile in any quest I made unless the detour around it was reasonable enough to use as an alternative.

I would agree, but honestly, there have been rare times (if ever) where I've actually seen a hero fall or be moved into a pit. They seem quite useless as they are now.

I don't know if I'd say "useless", as you can throw someone in there. But mostly, they end up being "things that block movement and not LOS", which is fine - having the bottleneck bridges is interesting, and big figures can cross with no problems.

The only place I don't like them is 58B because it blocks the whole hallway for small figures. Only big figures and teleporters can get across without taking a detour (if one is even available).

I guess the OL can Dark Charm someone into one. Who would be mean enough to do that?

During the Nerekhall campaign, you'd better believe that the black realm pit spaces were frequent hulk "knockback" locations. In most cases you can do more damage to the hero by attacking him rather than compelling him headlong into a pit, but that also depends what monsters you have nearby.

If you can stun them and knock them into a pit, that's always good, because then their whole turn is basically getting out of the pit and nothing else