So having played a 300 put game against Rhymer today and I was really taken aback by him. Having the wording that says Close to medium range for friendlies really makes him seem extremely powerful against ships. . .

So having played a 300 put game against Rhymer today and I was really taken aback by him. Having the wording that says Close to medium range for friendlies really makes him seem extremely powerful against ships. . .

He is nasty but he can be made manageable with your builds. Are you flying a Space Whale or just the smaller ships?

Rhymer is a poet. A poet of death. A singer of dirges.

rhymer has a major (heh) weakness though

his contribution suffers significantly if you don't speak in verse during his activation

rhymer has a major (heh) weakness though

his contribution suffers significantly if you don't speak in verse during his activation

How about haiku?

At range we engage

All batteries will fire now

Burning death for you

Your haiku doesn't rhyme®.

"Death shall be your final fate,

now, ye rebels, taste my hate.

Destruction will upon thee rain,

your resistance is futile, vain.

My rockets will blow your ships apart,

now you're looking nowhere smart.

I'll crush you with my gauntleted hand,

no more in my way you stand.

Sure as Luke's torpedo the Deathstar destroyed,

your cold dead bodies will float in the void."

you don't have to go all out, any verse will do

"Attacking now; we hit like tanks!

...motherloving blanks!"

Or: "'Tis yer doom!" *ka-boooom*

No help at all. . .

If Rhymer nd other squdrons activate and fire at your ship you atack them with fighters and take few down before they can fire back next turn. Since you took the first shots in the fighter fight you should probably win it especially considering that enemy build was more bomber oriented.

Also if Rhymer moves distance 4 or 5 they will get out of squadron command rnage allowing you to overwhlem them using commands.

You can also keep your fighters close to range 2 from your ships (so within command range) to block rhymer and his circus from bombing you.

So having played a 300 put game against Rhymer today and I was really taken aback by him. Having the wording that says Close to medium range for friendlies really makes him seem extremely powerful against ships. . .

You only have to engage every fighter in distance one of him. Not that difficult, if you have enough fighters and the squadron command at the right time.

So having played a 300 put game against Rhymer today and I was really taken aback by him. Having the wording that says Close to medium range for friendlies really makes him seem extremely powerful against ships. . .

You only have to engage every fighter in distance one of him. Not that difficult, if you have enough fighters and the squadron command at the right time.

Well, you just picked the only rebel fighter, who can't hinder Rhymer and pals from wrecking your ships. Why should I need an abundance of squadrons? I need about four, if I'm extremly thorough. Rhymer has a range of effect of 1, just like any fighters engagement range. So I have only to engage those squadrons, which are in dist 1 to Rhymer. Not that difficult, if I know that during deployment.

Well, you just picked the only rebel fighter, who can't hinder Rhymer and pals from wrecking your ships. Why should I need an abundance of squadrons? I need about four, if I'm extremly thorough. Rhymer has a range of effect of 1, just like any fighters engagement range. So I have only to engage those squadrons, which are in dist 1 to Rhymer. Not that difficult, if I know that during deployment.

I'd recommend more than four in your fleet (though you don't need that many to engage, especially not if they're just bombers)

Rhymer's presence will reduce the enemy's ability to anti-squadron (only 100 points to work with), but you still need to get to them (and be prepared for other fleets ofc)

Your haiku doesn't rhyme®.

"Death shall be your final fate,

now, ye rebels, taste my hate.

Destruction will upon thee rain,

your resistance is futile, vain.

My rockets will blow your ships apart,

now you're looking nowhere smart.

I'll crush you with my gauntleted hand,

no more in my way you stand.

Sure as Luke's torpedo the Deathstar destroyed,

your cold dead bodies will float in the void."

Ahem, haiku is not obliged to rhyme.

IMO he's kind of underwhelming, sure he ensures the alpha strike but if your opponent is competent they'll just engage him and laugh as his TIE bomber friends flail at enemy squadrons and don't do anything the rest of the game. A single A-Wing or TIE Interceptor laughs at the bombers who will throw a single dice and take 2 back every attack.

IMO he's kind of underwhelming, sure he ensures the alpha strike but if your opponent is competent they'll just engage him and laugh as his TIE bomber friends flail at enemy squadrons and don't do anything the rest of the game. A single A-Wing or TIE Interceptor laughs at the bombers who will throw a single dice and take 2 back every attack.

IMO he's kind of underwhelming, sure he ensures the alpha strike but if your opponent is competent they'll just engage him and laugh as his TIE bomber friends flail at enemy squadrons and don't do anything the rest of the game. A single A-Wing or TIE Interceptor laughs at the bombers who will throw a single dice and take 2 back every attack.

You make it sound like it is so easy. The issue is that a smart Imp player will can keep the group out of reach. Then you have the Tie Advances that keep the bombers alive. Everything is pretty much faster than anything the rebels can bring except the A-Wings which can't hope to take on such a group even in numbers

It is if you practice! The bombers are going to have an extremely hard time dealing with enemy squadrons by themselves, so you'll have to put escorts in in the form of Adv or Ints, which is more pts. Also, for Rhymer's flying circus to be effective you're going to be giving them Squadron orders every turn, which severely limits how far out you can throw them while not out running their escort fighters, unless your ships are acting as carriers, and Rebels will win that battle against you *every time*.

We playtested Wave 1 by proxy for about a month before release, and in my several games with Rhymer the same thing became clear: you HAVE to build around him for him to be effective, and by the time you have, there are cheaper, more durable, and more efficient options.

IMO he's kind of underwhelming, sure he ensures the alpha strike but if your opponent is competent they'll just engage him and laugh as his TIE bomber friends flail at enemy squadrons and don't do anything the rest of the game. A single A-Wing or TIE Interceptor laughs at the bombers who will throw a single dice and take 2 back every attack.

You make it sound like it is so easy. The issue is that a smart Imp player will can keep the group out of reach. Then you have the Tie Advances that keep the bombers alive. Everything is pretty much faster than anything the rebels can bring except the A-Wings which can't hope to take on such a group even in numbers

It is if you practice! The bombers are going to have an extremely hard time dealing with enemy squadrons by themselves, so you'll have to put escorts in in the form of Adv or Ints, which is more pts. Also, for Rhymer's flying circus to be effective you're going to be giving them Squadron orders every turn, which severely limits how far out you can throw them while not out running their escort fighters, unless your ships are acting as carriers, and Rebels will win that battle against you *every time*.

We playtested Wave 1 by proxy for about a month before release, and in my several games with Rhymer the same thing became clear: you HAVE to build around him for him to be effective, and by the time you have, there are cheaper, more durable, and more efficient options.

That's good to know that someone's been proxy playing it out. Whenever I've tried list building with Rhymer it seems that the Imperial player has to base their whole list around supporting the bombers but just assumed a more canny player would find the optimal solution. Have you tried him out at 400 points as I'd imagine that would open the Imp list up a bit more with some more fighters and offensive options for carrier Star Destroyers?

Felforlife: Since you have been build-testing, I really want your opinion of this bit of Theory-Hammer...

On the face of things, Rhymer and company appears to be useful as bait. Set him up between a pair of Gladiator II's. KEEP him there. Use Rhymer's threat to pull the enemy fighters into threat range of the Glad's overlapping 2 dice of Anti-squadron. If the Rebel doesn't attack the center, drive this formation into him like a wedge, forcing him to divide his fleet. Prioritize your targets and chase his ships all over the board, killing as you go. If he takes the bait, he must support his fighters with his own Anti-Squadron Cap ships, or watch while his fighters get pounded by AS fire. If he charges in with his fighters supported by Nebs and AFS, take the opportunity to pound his caps instead.

That said -- on the face of it, there are less expensive, better rounded fighter builds for Imps.

Ahem, haiku is not obliged to rhyme.

No, but the guy is called Rhymer, hence the rhyme and verse.

But I'd love to see a samurai-themed conversion of him called Sho-sa Haikuro.

My plan with Rhymer was to run him, 2 tie advanced, and soontir fel as a group of 4. If any squandrons come to attack, they have to attack the advances. Which means soontir will cause an automatic damage back. I have Howlrunner, Mawler, and a plain tie to come in, and Mawler does 1 damage to everyone just by showing up. If the group is near a capital, some shotgun effects should be nice to help with the dog pile of fighters.

If no fighters engage, then he can throw his black die with bomber, the advances still have a 6 in 8 chance of a plain damage, and soontir fel has a 50% chance of one damage when they all attack a ship.

In this way, it's fairly cheap as a group, effective against fighters and against ships. And often, it's just that one or two damage extra from a fighter that helps bring down a ship.

On the face of things, Rhymer and company appears to be useful as bait. Set him up between a pair of Gladiator II's. KEEP him there. Use Rhymer's threat to pull the enemy fighters into threat range of the Glad's overlapping 2 dice of Anti-squadron. If the Rebel doesn't attack the center, drive this formation into him like a wedge, forcing him to divide his fleet. Prioritize your targets and chase his ships all over the board, killing as you go. If he takes the bait, he must support his fighters with his own Anti-Squadron Cap ships, or watch while his fighters get pounded by AS fire. If he charges in with his fighters supported by Nebs and AFS, take the opportunity to pound his caps instead.

That said -- on the face of it, there are less expensive, better rounded fighter builds for Imps.

Sure! So without knowing upgrades on the Gladiators, I'd say this about them which I posted in another thread:

"I tried more than one Gladiator numerous times, and came to the conclusion that unless it has the Demolisher title, it isn't a great ship. Demolisher is pretty scary and it's incredibly hard to escape (played upwards of 10 games with it, it's good) while the generic Gladiators suffer from being too easy to avoid. Since you attack BEFORE you move, a good opponent will ensure he's never in range since he can pre measure his movement. You might get off a few attacks per game, and at that point there are better options. The other title is meh, since even if you are alongside the ship you are trying to shoot, if they're going speed 3 you're most likely going out of range; seems bad against Rebels."

I think Rhymer and co just sitting in the center is sort of a waste of points. I'd be inclined to not go after them if you did this, and let you bring your Gladiators to me while shooting them. If you're using squadron commands you wont be getting the most out of the gladiators. Also, 2 AS dice against rebels is kind of meh, since their squadrons have so much health. If you're relying on just the Gladiators to kill the fighters, they'll be found wanting every time.

I think Rhymer in general is better against Imperials, whose fighters are a bit easier to deal with. Without knowing the rest of your list I wouldn't know how to optimize it, but look at maybe cutting down the Gladiators to just Demolisher and taking more fighters.

Ahem, haiku is not obliged to rhyme.

No, but the guy is called Rhymer, hence the rhyme and verse.

But I'd love to see a samurai-themed conversion of him called Sho-sa Haikuro.

My name is Deathseed, and I approve of this message!