Earlier today I played a game with a different group of players from whom I normally play with and I noticed they did something quite different from myself and my usual players. It could actually be quite important so I thought I'd ask to see which is correct.

You're fighting one of the Ancient Ones whose attack is something like "Make this Skill check. If you fail, lose X. Any Investigator without X is devoured."

The difference in our ways of playing, and therefore my question, is this: Are you devoured when you lose your last X or on the first failed skill check after losing your last X?

I always figured you were devoured if you failed the check with zero of X left, unless it's health or sanity you're losing.

Stenun said:

This has been discussed and IIRC it's devoured when you have 0 X when the GOO attacks, whether you pass the check or not. If the attack takes you to 0, devoured and if you have 0, devoured. So you can spend your last Clue to try and do that 1 extra point to Nyarly (or more if Joe/Fight skill) damage, especially if the modifier is so low you'll auto-fail the Lore check and be devoured regardless.

We actually had another discussion about this in one or our recent games and I'm not sure. The AO card usually says: "Start of battle: each inv. without xxx is devoured. Attack: pass (whatever check) or lose (number) xxx. Any investigator without xxx is devoured."

So you go if you start the AO battle without xxx. But it doesn't say you are not allowed to go to 0 and attack once more the next round. The instant death rule if out of xxx seems to apply only to the start of battle. Later on, it could be interpreted as saying you are devoured if the ancient one attacks and you don't have any xxx.

Just my two cardboard cents.

Well I think the attacks should be read as two separate, sequential sentences, as they are written.

Pass the check or you discard/lose X.
If you have 0 of X, you are devoured.

The attack does not say, "Make a check. If you fail, you must discard/lose X. If you are unable to discard/lose X, you are devoured."

This means that if you lose your last X, you're devoured. You don't get one more round to battle while holding 0 of X. If you're going to die from having 0 X hen the battle begins, then it's apparently very important to have at least one X at all times (except for Dam's example: when you spend down to 0 before the AO's attack).

This would make Yog Sothoth even more impossible in the final battle =(

GrooveChamp said:

Yup. Yog-Sothoth is notoriously the hardest AO in the base set, and is one of the tougher guys all round from every set. Every single way to beat him is rendered more difficult, and that's not even taking his LiTaS ability into consideration.

Now try facing Yog-Sothoth with Dunwich or Innsmouth, when closing or sealing gates becomes crucial, because of added unstable locations. Also throw in Black Goat and Kingsport so that each gate burst that busts a seal hurts even deeper. Finally, tack on Epic Battle for a unpredictable and hopeless grapple with The Key and The Gate.

Yog-Sothoth is one of the greats in Lovecraft lore.

True. But Yog is vulnerable to physical attacks and often goes down very fast with a well equipped team come the last gasp - a bit of a let down when you smear him everywhere with shotguns. You need to add the cluecap rule. .

dj2.0 said:

Or Joe Diamond with +1 Fight and 2x +1 Will Skil with John Legrasse Ally (+2 Will) (all came from encounter/Rumor passing, none were bought). Each Clue spent on the Will check will earn 4 dice, getting a lot of mileage out of even 1 gate trophy. Especially when he could max his Fight and still have Will 4. Of course, I was equipped from the start in that game: 2x Tommy Gun, .45, .38, then got a couple of more 1-handed pistols during the game through encounters, each investigator had minimum +6 to combat (Sealing the Beast's Power was done). Of course, if Graveyard had not burst twice in that game, both times on the turn I had just sealed it, would've/should've gotten a win instead of a draw. The Dean Blight also popped a seal.

My ideal ancient one would be possible to beat in combat (very difficult, but not impossible without gearing up from the start) while removing all the "cheap" ways to win like Shotgun Joe clue hording (I can't imagine any other way of killing Atach). When only certain investigators with certain personal missions fulfilled with certain allies and certain items while blessed have even the most remote statistical shot at beating him, that's way too much.

So it's official then? You're devoured the INSTANT you hit zero of X?

GrooveChamp said:

You're not devoured the instant you hit zero, only when the GOO attacks and you either are already at zero or the attack drops you to zero. Mind you, I don't think there is a difference for any other GOO than Nyarlathotep (and Shub-Niggurath for William Yorick), gate and monster trophies don't buy you any extra like Clues do.