There is no "better"

Squadron v squadron results in more death for less but squadrons killing ships has a far greater impact on the game.

And point efficiency is not a given it depends on what you face. Tie ints v ships are garbage for their cost, but v squadrons theyre gold.bombers are the inverse.

The x and a wings are effective in both scenarios and have higher health resulting in much less to fear from cap ships.

This game is far too complex for a simple declaration of one side having it better. Especially when the effectiveness of a squadron varies so wildly, it alk comes down entirely to how well the players utilize or counter it.

Squints aren't worthless against ships. They're no optimal. But with what we have right now I can build a strong Imperial set of squadrons that I can't see the rebels taking on while running an effective ship list. And because even Tie Interceptors are very efficient anti ship dice(11 points for 1 is still good) the end result is a huge firepower advantage for the imperials after they clean up the Rebel ships.)

The big advantage is that tie fighters are an 8 point tie up. The cheapest tie up the rebels have is the A-Wing at 11. And getting more than 4 A-Wings is prohibitively expensive.

So while I can run 4 ties to tie someone up for 32 points I can only run 3 A-Wings for the same. Meanwhile the rest of the squadrons I run are probably a couple X-Wings escorting slow moving easily intercepted bombers. None of which can handle Soontir and two Advanceds deapite generally costing about the same.

The rebels pay too much for Bomber while not having nearly the effective anti-Fighter firepower. They need squadron commands to survive where imperials don't. The Imperials make up for it with built in damage effects, enhanced range, more speed, and incredibly cost efficient tie ups.

Lastly Player Skill is not a way to claim mitigation of cost inefficiency. The player with higher skill wins more. But they'd win more and harder playing more efficient ships too. Playet skill does not offset an imbalance in the game. Balance is what makes it so the better player wins. Skill and situation are not equalizers.

To answer the OP, the choice of Empire group effects may have been a thematic choice. Simply because in a massive ship battle the Empire is supposed to have the upper hand, stormtrooper shooting not withstanding, because they are a organized well drilled military force. Where as the Rebellion is a rag-tag collection of individuals and worlds who banded together, sure they have some base level fighting tactics but when it comes to full fleet battles I would expect the regimented military force to have the advantage over the more unique cobbled together aces. Which is why the rebellion spent so much time trying not to engage the imperial fleet in the movies, they knew that was a bad idea, instead they focused on raids and smuggling which plays to their strength and against the Empires. This is IMO why objectives are so important and I am pleased at how well they work for the game.

Honestly, to me, it seems like the imperial fighters received a massive boost.

Ties and Ints have a blue anti ship die.

ALL area of effect ace abilities are imperial.

None of the rebel fighters benefit from their missile armament in their anti squadron armament (why no red or black die when shooting at other squadrons for all the wings)

Now imperial cost efficientcy ends when engageing capital ships, not because ties are efficient with amount of antiship dice, because they are, but because of how efficient ships become with anti squadren dice when they get to fire 10+ dice at the squadrens in the area and that most ties have very limited hitpoints, and won't be able to withstand sustains fire from caps were rebels on the other hand will.

It plays to the same thing as the x-wing vs tie comparison a few posts back were since there are noticbly more ties things with 2 anti squad dice will be able to kill virtually all of the ties in 2-3 turns easily while it will take more like 4-5 turns to kill all of the x-wings so again I think the ships are fairly balenced and situations change cost efficiency a lot

Now imperial cost efficientcy ends when engageing capital ships, not because ties are efficient with amount of antiship dice, because they are, but because of how efficient ships become with anti squadren dice when they get to fire 10+ dice at the squadrens in the area and that most ties have very limited hitpoints, and won't be able to withstand sustains fire from caps were rebels on the other hand will.

It plays to the same thing as the x-wing vs tie comparison a few posts back were since there are noticbly more ties things with 2 anti squad dice will be able to kill virtually all of the ties in 2-3 turns easily while it will take more like 4-5 turns to kill all of the x-wings so again I think the ships are fairly balenced and situations change cost efficiency a lot

Generally the ties will be split between two or more arcs, surrounding a ship, or in some other way avoiding being a juicy target.

3 attacks turns wasted killing 60 points in ties is 3 turns not killing big powerful Imperial ships.

To answer the OP, the choice of Empire group effects may have been a thematic choice. Simply because in a massive ship battle the Empire is supposed to have the upper hand, stormtrooper shooting not withstanding, because they are a organized well drilled military force. Where as the Rebellion is a rag-tag collection of individuals and worlds who banded together, sure they have some base level fighting tactics but when it comes to full fleet battles I would expect the regimented military force to have the advantage over the more unique cobbled together aces. Which is why the rebellion spent so much time trying not to engage the imperial fleet in the movies, they knew that was a bad idea, instead they focused on raids and smuggling which plays to their strength and against the Empires. This is IMO why objectives are so important and I am pleased at how well they work for the game.

This is true, but I still feel like the special abilities are on the wrong ships.

Why is my HEAVY bomber (Dutch) special ability trigger when shooting squadrons? It can't even engage the **** things.

And this costs 6 points. Rhymers ability costs 7 points. And it benefits all friendly squadrons when shooting at ships (yes, this means ties can shoot at ships at medium range)

Then look at Tycho. He can move and shoot SHIPS while engaged. Cool ability, would be way better if he had the bomber keyword. So you know, you can "Stay on Target" and get your torps in.

Wedge, yeah, he is good, but situationally good... And he is likely to waste a lot of those dice on an overkill shot or he has to let them shoot him first.

Luke. He is great, and his ability fits. He really synergizes with Dodonna.

Farlander he is expensive and slow, but his ability essentially ensures he gets a critical hit when fired against a hull zone without shields (just re-roll all his dice). Again a very situational, later game ability.

Luke clearing told Wedge to GTFO after being glanced by Vader so he could 2 shot the death star and get all the cred to impress his sister......its not like gold leader blew that 2m opening to a 20m openeing, seriously,proton torpedos are mini nukes.

Seems like they captured rebel aces perfectly to me. they're all glory hogs.

Yep. Except that the player with better points efficiency is still at an advantage.

Squints aren't worthless against ships. They're no optimal. But with what we have right now I can build a strong Imperial set of squadrons that I can't see the rebels taking on while running an effective ship list. And because even Tie Interceptors are very efficient anti ship dice(11 points for 1 is still good) the end result is a huge firepower advantage for the imperials after they clean up the Rebel ships.)

The big advantage is that tie fighters are an 8 point tie up. The cheapest tie up the rebels have is the A-Wing at 11. And getting more than 4 A-Wings is prohibitively expensive.

So while I can run 4 ties to tie someone up for 32 points I can only run 3 A-Wings for the same. Meanwhile the rest of the squadrons I run are probably a couple X-Wings escorting slow moving easily intercepted bombers. None of which can handle Soontir and two Advanceds deapite generally costing about the same.

The rebels pay too much for Bomber while not having nearly the effective anti-Fighter firepower. They need squadron commands to survive where imperials don't. The Imperials make up for it with built in damage effects, enhanced range, more speed, and incredibly cost efficient tie ups.

Lastly Player Skill is not a way to claim mitigation of cost inefficiency. The player with higher skill wins more. But they'd win more and harder playing more efficient ships too. Playet skill does not offset an imbalance in the game. Balance is what makes it so the better player wins. Skill and situation are not equalizers.

but it's not "better points efficiency"

it is situational points efficiency

11 points for a 50% chance of 1 damage to a capital ship is not good when the same 11 points gets you a 75% chance (advance/a-wing) or you can get the same 50% for 8 ala the fighter.

this isn't X-wing miniatures where a B-wing basically always shoulders out the X-wing for cost efficiency, the disparity between squadrons and ships makes it impossible to out and out determine which squadron is better, especially when player skill determines whether or not the squadrons make it to the target they are effective against.

not to mention the significantly lower health totals of tie fighters/ints make them very susceptible to area of effect anti-squadron fire from ships.

I can't see this as an imbalance rather than a jumping of the gun. The rules built in to squadron v interactions (different dice armaments for both types) and squadron v squadron interactions (such as engagement) promise that positioning will determine efficiency far more than dice will, or at least make it more complex than a simple comparison would suggest.

Your never gonna be able to move all your TIES at once though unless you use squadron command. I meant the non ace squadrons when I said rebels are better. TIEs are pretty weak hp wise compared to rebel fighters.

Now imperial cost efficientcy ends when engageing capital ships, not because ties are efficient with amount of antiship dice, because they are, but because of how efficient ships become with anti squadren dice when they get to fire 10+ dice at the squadrens in the area and that most ties have very limited hitpoints, and won't be able to withstand sustains fire from caps were rebels on the other hand will.

It plays to the same thing as the x-wing vs tie comparison a few posts back were since there are noticbly more ties things with 2 anti squad dice will be able to kill virtually all of the ties in 2-3 turns easily while it will take more like 4-5 turns to kill all of the x-wings so again I think the ships are fairly balenced and situations change cost efficiency a lot

That depends on setup and options. Two squadron dice attacks are nice. But on average it is still 3 rounds of fire to kill the ties. And the ties have to have clumped together in an arc that doesn't have more important shots at Ships.

Generally the ties will be split between two or more arcs, surrounding a ship, or in some other way avoiding being a juicy target.

3 attacks turns wasted killing 60 points in ties is 3 turns not killing big powerful Imperial ships.

From my experience, I have used the neb-b frigate to take out fighters and I never once considered it wasting attacked that I could have used to to shoot at a star destroyer and it also has never been the only thing shooting at the ties so they drop like flys

The Imperials may have better fighters on paper but the Rebels have better support for their fighters.

Corruptor is a small boost for Bombers vs Gallant Haven, which protects all fighters, and Yavaris, which is the best starship buff in the game.

Adar Tallon is also better than Chiraneau.

AFIIs are also slightly better than VSDs for supporting fighters since they can keep pace with their 3 speed.

Y-Wings are seriously one of the best fighters in the game: 3 Blue, 1 Black and 6 HP for 10 points.

1 Y-Wing is = 2 TIE fighters essentially.

Y vs TIE Fighter = Y-Wing

A vs Interceptor = Soontir is better than Tycho but As are better than Interceptors (1 more HP, Black Dice vs Ships).

X vs TIE ADV = TIE ADV are possibly the best escorts in the game.

B vs TIE Bomber = Mauler makes TIE Bombers better, whereas B-Wings really need Yavaris and Tallon to justify their cost.

woah Y-wings are 3 blue dice now?

pretty sure that's just Dutch

the Y-wing is basically a slower Tie Bomber with 1 more health and a same expected value but higher anti-squadron damage potential (2 blue dice to one black) for 1 more point

It's probably the most specialized reb squadron (apart from dutch ofc, dutch will take on anything as long as he shoots first )

Ywings are awesome. I thought about a pure ywing force, but the heavy keyword is a pretty big disadvantage.

don't worry about heavy

odds are, they'll be engaging you

The advantage of ywings is they take so much to kill. The longer try squads are tied up trying to kill my ywing, the better off the rest of my force will be.

Whoops, mistake. You can always Flight Controller them to give them 3...

Y vs TIE Fighter = Y-Wing

A vs Interceptor = Soontir is better than Tycho but As are better than Interceptors (1 more HP, Black Dice vs Ships).

X vs TIE ADV = TIE ADV are possibly the best escorts in the game.

B vs TIE Bomber = Mauler makes TIE Bombers better, whereas B-Wings really need Yavaris and Tallon to justify their cost.

I appreciate where you're coming from in this comparison, but I would change up the comparisons a bit (unless you're going strictly off points).

[Edit: I wouldn't compare the Y-Wing and the TIE Fighter as their roles in a battle are completely different. One is a bomber and the TIE Fighter is strictly developed for dogfights.]

Y-Wing vs. TIE Bomber

Lore: Y-Wing would come out in a dogfight due to better shields and the turret.

Armada: The Y-Wing would likely come out ahead even though the black die has slightly better accuracy; 2 blue dice would over come the one less hit point.

A-Wing vs. TIE Interceptor

Lore: The A-Wing could take a hit or two, but in the end the Interceptor's firepower superiority would take it out.

Armada: The Interceptor would come out ahead with the extra die in most cases; if there is a friendly squadron nearby granting Swarm, it's a no brainer in most cases. The A-Wing has a bit more flexibility being able to hit ships harder.

X-Wing vs. TIE Advanced

Lore: The TIE Adv was specifically designed as a counter to the X-Wing, and usually the pilots were some of the top guns of the Empire. I'd give the advantage to the TIE Advanced here.

Armada: The X-Wing is superior to the Adv in most ways in Armada and only costs 1 more.

Which leaves the TIE Fighter and the B-Wing, but these ships aren't really comparable. The Fighter is best lined up against the Z95 Headhunter for a 1:1 comparison (which is a fairly even fight), but as an EU fighter we probably aren't going to see the Z95 for a wave or two. The B-Wing is basically a cross between the X and Y wings giving it the dogfight ability of the X and the bombing capability of the Y. Unfortunately, the B-Wing is sorely under represented on paper in Armada. It'll be interesting to see if the increased firepower will make up for its sluggishness.

Anyway, that's all my opinion and completely debatable.

the only 1:1 comparison involving a Tie Fighter will result in a dead Tie fighter

that's why it's always a many : 1 comparison

But, in game terms, squadron v squadron match-ups aren't terribly useful overall imo

lest we continuously forget, I do believe I've spotted a capital ship here and there in this game. I think their contribution makes the squadron health a factor beyond straight squadron v squadron efficiency. A Tie's boasts of superior efficiency will be met with an unimpressed, laser-filled sigh from Glad 2s, Escort Nebs, and AF mk2-As.

The A-wing, meanwhile, being at one health more boasts a deceptively massive advantage. After all, squadron's can't get crit in Armada, so the difference between 1 and 0 matters quite a bit

The advantage of ywings is they take so much to kill. The longer try squads are tied up trying to kill my ywing, the better off the rest of my force will be.

Except Y-Wings can't tie up anything. They're too heavy.

There is another point to Rebs vs. Imps: Rebel fighters are, squadron by squadron, better and more pricey than the Imp fighters. This means, they are way more efficient in terms of squadron commands, as you need less to activate all your fighters, or, put in different words: You get more bang for the squad-command-buck.

There is another point to Rebs vs. Imps: Rebel fighters are, squadron by squadron, better and more pricey than the Imp fighters. This means, they are way more efficient in terms of squadron commands, as you need less to activate all your fighters, or, put in different words: You get more bang for the squad-command-buck.

This is a double edged sword however, as the imperial player will likely have numerical superiority, thereby allowing them to determine the terms of the squadron battles.

There is another point to Rebs vs. Imps: Rebel fighters are, squadron by squadron, better and more pricey than the Imp fighters. This means, they are way more efficient in terms of squadron commands, as you need less to activate all your fighters, or, put in different words: You get more bang for the squad-command-buck.

This is a double edged sword however, as the imperial player will likely have numerical superiority, thereby allowing them to determine the terms of the squadron battles.

and numerical superiority with less health is checked by capital ship anti-squadron attacks

games is balanced, everyone wins

I think an R2 Unit Card that add 1 Hull or 1 Attack Die or Both would be great. Add it for Y-Wings and X-Wings........Cost 1-2 Points/Squadron or something. Maybe R2D2 adds both for 2 points and 1 or the other for 1.

The advantage of ywings is they take so much to kill. The longer try squads are tied up trying to kill my ywing, the better off the rest of my force will be.

Except Y-Wings can't tie up anything. They're too heavy.

By the rules they can't, psychologically they can.

The advantage of ywings is they take so much to kill. The longer try squads are tied up trying to kill my ywing, the better off the rest of my force will be.

Except Y-Wings can't tie up anything. They're too heavy.

By the rules they can't, psychologically they can.